Mind control as a character concept?

[Ursus the Grim]

I've been toying with build ideas that aren't my usual ilk (Lizardfolks, Wild Shape, Barbarians, Unarmed Fighters, etc) and I think I decided what I'd like my next character to be. I was wondering if the playground had opinions on this.

Obviously, anything can be optimized, and pumping a save DC high enough to mind-control anything the DM throws at you can't be impossible. But what is your opinion on this as a general practice? Turning the BBEG's main man into your loyal thrall ever work out for you? Does your DM just find ways to bypass/autokill your bodyguard? Does the monster that was once a major threat to you suddenly fail against everything you come across? Is there a sweet spot where this works well? Sore spots where it stumbles?

I am expressly referring to magical/supernatural mind control, not a diplomancer.

I am also not looking for build advice. Part of the fun is piecing it together myself sometimes.

[Hirax]

I love domination. I've had characters that will enthrall an entire town. Mother cyst (Libra Mortis) is an excellent way to do this, because anyone that you're worried about breaking free from your grasp, you can kill them via necrotic burst. Great for a Resident Evil 4 style mind control campaign. I've never tried this on a major NPC, but I've never encountered any problems with a DM from it.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Trallherd (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/thrallherd.htm)

/Thread

[Silva Stormrage]

I think you want to try and use psionics for two reasons. One psionic charm and psionic dominate work on all types of creatures simply by augmenting them more so you don't need to worry about getting charm monster, charm mass etc just charm psionic. Also the main reason, thrallherd. If you haven't read it.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/thrallherd.htm
It is an AWESOME prestige class that lets you get disposable minions by the truckload. They are permanently mind controlled by you and they come back 1 day after death.


Another thing to look for is the Nightmare Spinner's adaptation section. It states that the class could be changed into something that allows casters to bypass mind affecting immunity for charm and dominate. And also if you are changing it you could re fluff it to psionic as well.

Sorry I know you didn't want build advice I just wanted to throw out suggestions :smalltongue:

Mind controlling people can be fun, especially if you can get chain on everything. One thing to look out for isn't the DM killing your minions but at high levels mindblank is the scourge of all that enchants. If you aren't planning to get that high then it should be good.

Edit: Friggen swordsage about thrallherd... I had to write indepth too >.>

[Zaq]

Basically, it depends on the group and on the DM.

Some DMs get really, really pissy when you just make their favorite monster your BFF with a single spell. Some will just ad-hoc immunities or do obvious saving throw fudges to make this tactic not work. This is generally undesirable, and if your GM gets protective of his or her monsters, that's a warning sign that this archetype might not be for you.

Then there's your group. Out of character, if you have a couple of thralls, your turns will probably take quite a while, and that gets annoying. In-character, I personally look on dedicated enchanters/telepaths/whatever as definitely a lot darker than pretty much any other kind of magic, at least out of the box. I'd be much more willing to fight alongside a necromancer than I would an enchanter, honestly, unless I was playing an evil character myself. Maybe that's just me, but I'd be careful of other folks in your group feeling like that.

So those are some of the negatives, at least. I don't generally look too fondly on that archetype. Now, if you do it as sort of a trickster thing, even a malicious or deadly trickster (e.g., the tibbit telepath who uses the Suggestion "pick me up, pet me, and pay attention only to me while walking around that corner," leading their foe into an ambush), that's different from "aaaaand you're my slave now." Even then, I'd call 'em both capital-E Evil. I'd just be more likely to be cool with one than with the other.

One thing you can do to sometimes stave off GM pissiness is to enslave the lesser enemies. Don't turn the BBEG into your lapdog . . . turn his ogre friend into your slave and have HIM wreak some havoc. Some GMs will be cooler with that. YMMV.

[sreservoir]

keep in mind that while telepaths are decent at dominating the types that can usually be dominated, it really fails against undead and constructs that aren't immune to mind-affecting. doesn't mean you can't just kill them, but it feels like so much wasted potential.

[Ursus the Grim]

Honestly, thanks for linking Thrallherd, guys. I generally don't dabble in Psionics that much, so I would have looked to Arcane first (Mindbender ftl). If using a thrallherd, I would probably use my minions to set up a stronghold and, well, hold it. I'd only keep one to tag along. Kind of the same reason I continue to toss my Summoner Builds away. Controlling six creatures on my turn bogs down combat, and nobody likes that.

Well, as for alignment.. . what if I treated them really, really well? Like the Garden of Eden? God ran the Garden of Eden, right? So there isn't anything that makes lack of free will evil by necessity, right?:smalltongue:

[sreservoir]

well, those alignment books... ah, who am I kidding, nobody takes alignment advice from those books, right? right?

dangerously close to real world religion, by the way.

[kardar233]

Well, as for alignment.. . what if I treated them really, really well? Like the Garden of Eden? God ran the Garden of Eden, right? So there isn't anything that makes lack of free will evil by necessity, right?:smalltongue:

Evil Overlord List, item #48:

I will treat any beast which I control through magic or technology with respect and kindness. Thus if the control is ever broken, it will not immediately come after me for revenge.

[Shpadoinkle]

So there isn't anything that makes lack of free will evil by necessity, right?:smalltongue:

Making people work against their will is called slavery. D&D considers slavery evil.

[AzazelSephiroth]

Well, as for alignment.. . what if I treated them really, really well? Like the Garden of Eden? God ran the Garden of Eden, right? So there isn't anything that makes lack of free will evil by necessity, right?:smalltongue:

Actually they had free will- remember they chose to eat the bad fruit and were then kicked out. So lack of free will IMO is EVIL....

That being said you can play your game anyway you want! Whatever makes the games fun and some of the best games have come from a clever suggestion and proper use of dominate:smallwink:

However my DMs do tend to get protective of their Evil Overloads and as such I tend to only see these tactics work on lower level villians.

[Silva Stormrage]

Honestly, thanks for linking Thrallherd, guys. I generally don't dabble in Psionics that much, so I would have looked to Arcane first (Mindbender ftl). If using a thrallherd, I would probably use my minions to set up a stronghold and, well, hold it. I'd only keep one to tag along. Kind of the same reason I continue to toss my Summoner Builds away. Controlling six creatures on my turn bogs down combat, and nobody likes that.

Well, as for alignment.. . what if I treated them really, really well? Like the Garden of Eden? God ran the Garden of Eden, right? So there isn't anything that makes lack of free will evil by necessity, right?:smalltongue:

Reread the thrallherd... it actually doesn't require an evil alignment. I would suggest a simple act of refluffing though. Your mind control only reaches out to the worst and the most vile creatures. You compel them to join you so you can funnel their efforts towards good to prevent them from going to hell and strengthening hell's rulers. (Think roy + belkar in OOTS)