highest stat?

[Kwinza]

Hey guys, i was just wondering whats the highest you can get a stat?
by lets say level 20, using level appropriate wealth?

:)

[prufock]

Temporary or permanent? Because I'm sure there's a difference. Stats can be buffed in some ways beyond your static ability score.

[Morph Bark]

Without using infinite loops and epic level stuff?

The highest I've seen was a Strength score around 100.

If talking about any ability score other than Strength, you can have up to 24 to start with (using an LA+3 template with buy-off), +5 from levels, +5 from a Tome/Manual, +6 from an item.

So 40.

[CTrees]

See: Pun-Pun. Arbitrarily high.

[Telonius]

At level 20, if you can get +5 to your caster level, it's possible to Shapechange into a Gloom (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/gloom.htm) for 46 Dex.

A Paragon Creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) has +15 points to all ability scores, with no increase in number of hitdice; so find yourself a base creature with an already-high physical stat and shapechange away. Pseudonatural (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/pseudonaturalCreature.htm)does similar, but is best for Strength.

EDIT: Note that all that is technically Epic. DMs will often disallow it on that basis, or on the basis of "lack of familiarity." Otherwise you could have Druids Wildshaping into Paragon Fleshrakers, which is just silly.

[Dusk Eclipse]

You can't transform into Templated Creatures.

[ranagrande]

I might try to do this today if I have time. I wouldn't be surprised if I could get 200 without spellcasting or items.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Letsee.

Point buy, put an 18 into Intelligence. Now be a black ethergaunt (+20 to Int, 16 HD, +4 LA).

Put all level-up bonuses into Int, buy an Intelligence Tome +5, and buy an Int +6 item.

This gives you an Intelligence of 54. That's the base. Any way to boost that higher?

[Telonius]

... wow. Apparently they officially made a change to the previous FAQ ruling (http://gameschat19968.yuku.com/topic/1962/Andy-FAQ-problem-with-Polymorph-and-templates) on whether or not the "no templates" thing from Alter Self carried over to Polymorph. Looks like I saw the first version, but never saw the newer one. Thanks!

[Dictum Mortuum]

Just from the top of my head:

race with +2 to strength (e.g. half-orc) and 18 starting score = 20
belt of giant strength +6 = 26
tome for +5 permanent strength gain = 31
wu jen spell "giant size" (complete arcane) at caster level 19+ +32 = 63

and that's only the obvious bonuses :P

[Dusk Eclipse]

Anything Barbarian 20

Pay for a Spellcaster to PAO you into a Firebolg (Str 36)
Level up Bonus to Str
+6 Str Item
Mighty Rage + 8
Then use CL 20 item of Gant Size + 32
+5 Tome

36+5+6+8+32+5=92

[Morph Bark]

Letsee.

Point buy, put an 18 into Intelligence. Now be a black ethergaunt (+20 to Int, 16 HD, +4 LA).

Put all level-up bonuses into Int, buy an Intelligence Tome +5, and buy an Int +6 item.

This gives you an Intelligence of 54. That's the base. Any way to boost that higher?

Racial HD and LA give no level-up bonuses.

[Devmaar]

Racial HD and LA give no level-up bonuses.

LA don't but RHD do

[CTrees]

Interestingly, in Pathfinder there's not even a suggestion that templates are not allowed for polymorph effects, even in the FAQs, as far as I can tell (not even an "average member" clause). Now, for the most part this shouldn't matter, because of the heavy nerfs ("you gain some abilities and some stat boosts, as well as the appearance"). However, you can, theoretically, apply templates to increase the range of abilities gained (or change the size of the creature, if that helps, as the spell version limits are based on size, not HD).

Where it gets more interesting is Polymorph Any Object. If you're transforming into a plant, magical beast, dragon, etc. it functions as the "____ shape" spell, but if you're NOT transforming into one of those forms... RAW would seem to lose their restrictions. Undead, abberations, non-humanoid/elemental outsiders, most fey, vermin and constructs are the obvious choices, as it's unclear if you can transform, say, into a colossal magical beast, and "monstrous humanoid" might be construed to hit the humanoid (and thus, "as alter self") requirement that precludes (most or all) giants. So, for instance, if I'm reading everything right, it looks like a lvl 17 Wizard is perfectly fine transforming into, say, a Giant, Advanced, Balor Lich.

[Larpus]

Does a Synthesist Summoner count?

[Morph Bark]

Strength can go up to nigh-infinite even without questionable readings for Pun-Pun or the Cancer Mage.

Dustform Creature + Incarnate Construct + Dustform Creature + Incarnate Construct + Dustform Creature + Incarnate Construct + etc...

[Retech]

If you allow Pathfinder, try template abuse. Triple decrepit, always drunk, young, Advanced x 5, Dragonwrought Kobold would net you...

Venerable Mental Score Benefits
+20 in all mental stats
+24 dexterity

So that's just base, without items. And all for La +0! Although templates are more of a DM area in Pathfinder, so even though it doesn't specifically say that advanced can't be stacked five times (it's a simple template, more as an aid for DMs to buff weak monsters), it might not be legal.

So, let's just say that you start with 18 intelligence base, +23 intelligence from templates (I think Venerable is +3), for starting of 41. +2 from spellhoarding psychosis, +5 from level ups, +5 from tome, +6 from item

= 59 Intelligence

Although there are more third party templates about being possessed by a celestial that have higher intelligence bonuses.

--

Actually, let's combine Black Ethergaunt and templates, yay!

18 (Base)
+20 (Ethergaunt)
+4 (Level up)
+20 (templates)
+3 (Age)
+5 (Tome)
+6 (Item)

= 76 Intelligence

And they become petitioners, spirits in the outer planes, in Utopia, gaining another +2 intelligence.

Following that, they can be reincarnated

[Vladislav]

Do RHD and LA count for your WBL? Because if they don't, you have no wealth at all.

[CTrees]

Does a Synthesist Summoner count?

Let's see... Synth18/Barb1/Alch1

16 base strength (biped)
+7 via leveling
+3 from user-assignable ability score increases at 5,10,15
+8 from Ability Score Increase evolution at lvl 1,6,12,18 ("one additional time for every six levels possessed)
+16 Huge ("instead" means this does not stack w/ Large. Also, this is *not* called out as a size bonus)
+6 belt of STR
+5 Tome
+4 Rage (morale bonus)
+4 Mutagen (Alchemical bonus)
+10 Form of the Dragon III (size bonus, wording does not require you to BECOME larger to gain the size bonus, interestingly)

Equals... 79 strength. Not bad for PF-only with no psionics.

[Eldariel]

You can get Strength over 100 easily with 24 hour duration buffs. Others are much harder, so much so that I'm not sure you could even do it without looping stuff. But let's try Strength: Take a Cleric 20. Use Miracle, Spell Domain or such to mimic Arcane Spells; Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell (with Nightsticks if necessary) to persist all your buffs that don't last long enough (all day) by default. Use:

Draconic Polymorph into Firbolg: 36 base + 8 strength
Holy Transformation: +4 Sacred
Girallon's Blessing + Fuse Arms: +12 +4 Untyped
Bite of the Werebear: +12 Enhancement
Giant Size: +32 Size
Greater Visage of the Deity: +4 Untyped
Valiant Fury for: +4 Morale

We can trivially get 112 Strength from just that. Then we can add multiple castings of Greater Consumptive Fields (each previous Consumptive Field raises the maximum value of the next by half, up to 2xcaster level) for 2 times our Caster Level to that, and we can trivially raise our CL to ~30-40 so maybe 60-80 more Strength.

I'm sure we could go over 200 if we wanted to. This is, of course, before we invoke arbitrarily long chains (and oh boy, are there ever any in this game...).


Some handy ideas here too. (http://web.archive.org/web/20090429031517/http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-441877)

[Tr011]

With the right combination of spells you can get as high as you want. Without Ubercheese you can get in the 60s, 70s or even a bit higher. With google you can get the How.

/edit: Eladril's post pretty much marks the main buffs you can get, also look at Extract Gift from Fiendish Codex (1 I think) to get uncapped enhancement bonsu with your Wealth (gained by Fabricate) with the right application.

[gkathellar]

10th level chameleons get a +6 competence bonus to any one ability score at a time.

[Douglas]

each previous Consumptive Field raises the maximum value of the next by half, up to 2xcaster level
Consumptive Field's cap is only on the caster level increase. Strength and temporary hp can go arbitrarily high with a single casting at any caster level.

[Morph Bark]

Do RHD and LA count for your WBL? Because if they don't, you have no wealth at all.

WBL is based off character level, to which RHD and LA count up for.

[Eldariel]

Consumptive Field's cap is only on the caster level increase. Strength and temporary hp can go arbitrarily high with a single casting at any caster level.

Oh? How incredibly dull.

[Tyndmyr]

Hey guys, i was just wondering whats the highest you can get a stat?
by lets say level 20, using level appropriate wealth?

:)

Arbitrarily, at level one, by Pun Pun.

[Anarchy_Kanya]

LA don't but RHD do
Actually, nope.

[CTrees]

Actually, nope.

Citation?

Just curious.

[Anarchy_Kanya]

Citation?

Just curious.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#abilityScoreImprovement
Clarification: I meant RHD that the monster has from the start.

[Douglas]

Any stat increases a monster would get for its racial hit dice are already included in its base stats. Otherwise every monster would have to have "distribute 1 extra point per 4 hit dice" next to its listed ability scores.

[Onikani]

If you start as something large, you can PrC into warhulk which gives +20 Str over its 10 levels.

Most large things have a +6 St, so you could relatively easily hit 44 from jsut starting stats and classes
Then add another +5 from levels, +5 Tome, +6 Belt.

Something like a static 60 seems really easy (adding rage/frenzy and buffs gets you around 80 for shorter durations).

As others have pointed out you can go way higher, but i'm barely even trying here. :)

[NoldorForce]

There's always Extended Persistent Ocular Power Leech. Just tag it on the party binder who's seen fit to make a pact with Naberius. It should last two days on the both of you, so that's a +28800 bonus to some arbitrary ability score just before it runs out.

And if you really want to go infinite, find some way to add Temporal Reiteration to the mix.

[Aethir]

There's always Extended Persistent Ocular Power Leech. Just tag it on the party binder who's seen fit to make a pact with Naberius. It should last two days on the both of you, so that's a +28800 bonus to some arbitrary ability score just before it runs out.

And if you really want to go infinite, find some way to add Temporal Reiteration to the mix.

Is there an updated power leech spell, or is this just a fancy way of killing the Binder in the equation off? :smallamused:

Power Leech from BoVD deals out Ability Drain, not damage, and Naberius healing factor is 1/hour for Drain.

[NoldorForce]

Is there an updated power leech spell, or is this just a fancy way of killing the Binder in the equation off? :smallamused:

Power Leech from BoVD deals out Ability Drain, not damage, and Naberius healing factor is 1/hour for Drain.Scratch that, I thought it dealt ability damage rather than ability drain. Mind you, there are still ways of removing indefinite amounts of ability drain, but they're not nearly as trivial as I'd thought Naberius would be. (They involve loops to get unlimited spells or power points.)

[Tvtyrant]

Barbarian/Warhulk can get something like 45 strength. A Druid can get a little higher by going Dire Polar Bear and then having a tome and belt for 50 strength.

[Eldariel]

Barbarian/Warhulk can get something like 45 strength. A Druid can get a little higher by going Dire Polar Bear and then having a tome and belt for 50 strength.

A plain Barbarian 20 can get 18 + 4 Race + 5 Levels + 5 Tome + 6 Item + 8 Rage + 2 Size = 48. A War Hulk can easily get 18 + 4 Race + 4 Levels + 5 Tome + 6 Item + 4 Rage + 20 War hulk = 61

[Mo_the_Hawked]

Now I don't know if its the highest, but this is my favorite stregnth build.

Half-Orge (LA+1) +6 Str
Dire Wereboar (LA+2, RHD 7d8) +16 Str
Barbarian(1) Rage +4 Str
Frenzied Berserker (8) Frenzy +10 Str, stacks with rage.
Belt of Strength +6 Str
Tome of what ever it is +5 Str
16 levels add in an extra +4 Str

And that Only adds up to 19 levels.

[candycorn]

... wow. Apparently they officially made a change to the previous FAQ ruling (http://gameschat19968.yuku.com/topic/1962/Andy-FAQ-problem-with-Polymorph-and-templates) on whether or not the "no templates" thing from Alter Self carried over to Polymorph. Looks like I saw the first version, but never saw the newer one. Thanks!

Side note: FAQ answers are not rulings. They are no more official than Gus the GM's personal list of opinions on how the game works...

With the exception that Gus is at least only one person, whereas the FAQ contains answers from multiple people, and the accuracy is about on par with the answer from a demideity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contactotherplane.htm), and the Int check is what you must make to avoid hurting your brain from some of the answers.

[CTrees]

Also, if Gus' answer is even less coherent than the FAQ average, and he's your DM? It's the right one.:smallbiggrin: