Why didn't Belkar take credit?

[Ron Miel]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0784.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0786.html

After releasing the dino, Belkar tells Ian not to let on that it was his idea. He then makes a specific point of telling Roy that he had nothing to do with it.

Why?

Ever since his fake character growth, he's been trying to make people believe that he has changed and become a better person. He was happy to receive credit for killing the slavers. Why didn't he do the same here?

[ORione]

Faking character growth is one thing, but actual character growth is another. I think Belkar was surprised and ashamed that he actually felt empathy, so he tried to cover it up. It makes sense to me: I can easily say, "I'm sorry" when I'm lying, but when I actually am sorry for whatever I've done, it's hard to spit it out.

Edit: NerfTW said what I was trying to say, but he explained it more clearly.

[NerfTW]

We found out in the lat comic. (807)

Belkar wasn't faking character growth when he did that. He really did feel sorry for the bounty hunters due to Roy's "it's like dueling your own puppy" comment. Since it was legitimately what he used to consider a weakness, he didn't want Roy to know about it. Especially since he might consider the fact that he cares for Mr. Scruffy to be something that can be used against him in the future.

[denthor]

We found out in the lat comic. (807)

Belkar wasn't faking character growth when he did that. He really did feel sorry for the bounty hunters due to Roy's "it's like dueling your own puppy" comment. Since it was legitimately what he used to consider a weakness, he didn't want Roy to know about it. Especially since he might consider the fact that he cares for Mr. Scruffy to be something that can be used against him in the future.

Thank you for the above. That was very clear and enlightening.

[ThePhantasm]

the fact that he cares for Mr. Scruffy to be something that can be will be used against him in the future.

Perhaps you are on to something there.

[Gift Jeraff]

Because he only takes cash.

:smallcool:

[Rinquist]

Because he only takes cash.

:smallcool:

YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Morgan Wick]

That was confusing enough, yet important enough, that I wrote a whole post on it (http://webcomics.morganwick.com/2011/09/on-the-modern-ring-of-gyges/).

[Ron Miel]

That makes a lot of sense.

Except for calling Enor & Ganji evil, which I disagree with. They are both Neutral, at minimum.

[hamishspence]

What evil acts have we seen them balking at, that might indicate Neutrality? (and remember, Evil characters can balk at acts that are "too evil even for them")

"Neutral at minimum" seems a bit lacking in evidence.

[Ron Miel]

A better question would be: what have they ever done that indicates an Evil alignment?

They are bounty hunters who catch criminals for the reward offered. They only go against the bad guys. (Elan was a mistake, they thought he was Nale)

Ganji has a personal code that prevents him from either committing fraud against the government, or knowingly taking an innocent person.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0728.html

When forced to fight each other, Ganji offers to sacrifice his life to save Enor, and Enor is unwilling to accept.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0783.html

Based on this, I think Ganji is Lawful Good, and Enor is True Neutral, but mostly does LG actions under Ganji's influence.

[Gift Jeraff]

Lawful Good = feel bad for slaveowners, attack someone for asking a question (yes yes, Roy might have been someone out for revenge), and then wish bloody revenge on someone who is asking to work together?

[thereaper]

Gannji's lack of desire to screw over the government indicates a Lawful alignment, but not necessarily a good one. The fact that he is willing to be a bounty hunter for an evil government in itself indicates (though does not itself prove) a neutral or evil alignment. He also has not demonstrated any concern for whether or not the people he's hunting are guilty or innocent (only whether or not they are the people the wanted poster asks for).

Being dumb doesn't make one good or innocent. If they have an Int score of 3 or above, they are responsible for their actions, except for a handful of poorly-explained anomalies (the Tarrasque and mindless undead, for example). Enor, dumb as he is, definitely has an Int score above 3. Besides, Lawful Good characters typically don't try to screw over a government for personal gain (they might screw over an evil one to help other people, but not themselves).

Oh, and being evil doesn't mean you can't have friends or love. Look at Belkar, Tarquin, Thog, Nale, Sabine, and the Ancient Black Dragon.

We have seen no evidence of a Good alignment for either Enor or Gannji. The few scraps of evidence we do have points to either Neutral or Evil. Personally, I lean towards LN for Gannji (mainly due to the speech) and TN for Enor, but that's neither here nor there.

[Ron Miel]

We have seen no evidence of a Good alignment for either Enor or Gannji.

Apart from the Ganji's willingness to sacrifice himself to save his friend, that has "good" all over it.

But please don't continue this hijack. Start a new thread if you want to discuss it further.

[Darth Hunterix]

Belkster didn't want anyone to know, that he let all those guards be killed by someone other than himself just because he wanted to help some meaningless NPCs (as he probably sees them), who may or may not even have names (again: as he sees them).

[Morgan Wick]

Whether or not Enor or Gannji are evil is besides the point of the post. The point is, tight friendship aside, they were never portrayed sympathetically until that fight (http://webcomics.morganwick.com/2011/03/i-blame-the-conversation-between-elan-and-tarquin-for-the-slowdown/), and neither Roy nor Belkar would have any reason to believe they were anything but evil.

But let's not turn this into a morally-justified thread.

[Souhiro]

Lawful Good = feel bad for slaveowners, attack someone for asking a question (yes yes, Roy might have been someone out for revenge), and then wish bloody revenge on someone who is asking to work together?

Well, save for the first part, the other two can questions can apply to Miko, and she was Lawful Good. True, she was a potential Ex-Paladin the whole time



But pack to the OP question: The Belkster did was what he do: To release the dino MAINLY for creating a distraction to Enor & Ganji. Somewhere, Vaarsivius said that Belkar's brain could only handle two emotions towards people: Lust or Hate. But now he's discovering "friendship, and Undying loyalty" towards his white cat (and maybe, to Lord Shojo) If that's discovered... well, I think he fears the order could chant him "Belkar and a pet, are sitting under a tree!"




Ah! Enor & Ganji are evil, because they are ugly and they never smile: Elan is Chaotic Good and almost always is smiling, and the same can see for Haley, Durkon (Lawful Good) smiles when he has any expresion what isn't tree-phobia, Roy don't count here because he's a dumb fighter. (For Tarkin, he has an evil grin, and Xykon hasn't any facial expresions, mainly because he lacks a face)

What? in my first grade school books, good boys were smiling and bad boys were frowning! It was a "Detect Evil" for schoolgraders.

[Darth Hunterix]

Somewhere, Vaarsivius said that Belkar's brain could only handle two emotions towards people: Lust or Hate. But now he's discovering "friendship, and Undying loyalty" towards his white cat

Why are you so sure it is not a lust?

[Souhiro]

Why are you so sure it is not a lust?

Because it's called "Character Growth". And more than "Lust", we could call it "Love".

[Darth Hunterix]

Because it's called "Character Growth". And more than "Lust", we could call it "Love".

I know you meant that. My question wasn't supposed to be answered (which, BTW you didn't do, because I didn't ask for paraphrasing, but for the reason why do you think it is not a lust, but that's just me being mean since that's not the point), but to create inside people's mind a creepy vision of Belkar's lust for Mr. Scruffy and making them cry.

All hail to Chaos and Evil!

And not to make this post entirely off-topic:
One more argument for hiding the truth from Roy is the one that he may not appreciate Tarquin's attention caused by killing his guards and destroying his show.

[rbetieh]

Why would he? It was a personal decision, his action is a statement of his values (as it turns out, everyone has values, even CEs). Since he doesnt care what people think of him, why bother to share those values with anyone else? Besides the last time he was caught doing a good deed, his reward turned him into giant worm bait....

[Forealms]

I think I would sum up Belkar's action (and subsequent cover-up of said action) to this:

Belkar is faking character growth by being a team player, not by pretending to be good. Everyone knows he's still Evil. (And Roy and Haley know he's faking the team player thing, but Belkar doesn't know they know.)

In other words, Belkar is trying to improve his "Team Player" street cred without damaging his rather significant "Evil" street cred.