Tomes of Gainful Exercise and similar

[Laniius]

The bonuses are listed as inherent. What stacks with what?

[Hirax]

Inherent bonuses stack with everything except other inherent bonuses affecting the same stat. If you have 2 inherent bonuses to the same stat for any reason, they overlap instead of stacking, and the higher one applies.

[Acanous]

Which means your tome of gainful exercize +5 is the only one worth buying.

Alternatively, you can wish five times. It's a special ruling in Wish's descriptor.

[Beelzebub1111]

Which means your tome of gainful exercize +5 is the only one worth buying.

Alternatively, you can wish five times. It's a special ruling in Wish's descriptor.

Do you have to use those wishes consecutively or can they be spaced out?

[Andreaz]

Do you have to use those wishes consecutively or can they be spaced out?

Immediate succession, and they have to be for the same thing, so Wishing for a +1 and then wishing for a +1 or +2 doesn't make a +2. You have to wish straight for the last bonus and get it at the end.
For example, wihing 5 times for a +5

[Volthawk]

Do you have to use those wishes consecutively or can they be spaced out?

Wish says "cast in immediate succession". (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wish.htm)

[Morph Bark]

Huh, and here I always thought that a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score that already had +2 simply increased it to +3. With the tomes and manuals costing 27,500 times the inherent bonus within the tome/manual, it always seemed reasonable enough.

[Piggy Knowles]

Huh, and here I always thought that a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score that already had +2 simply increased it to +3. With the tomes and manuals costing 27,500 times the inherent bonus within the tome/manual, it always seemed reasonable enough.

In games I've run in the past, I've ruled it that way (still keeping the maximum bonus of +5). It's a house rule, though.

Downtime in my games tends to only come in fits and spurts, so by the time they can afford the +5, they may not necessarily have the time to read it. I put in that houserule because it meant that they could purchase the less expensive manuals when they DID have time, and build up their inherent bonuses incrementally.

[Acanous]

The ruling exists because the game is actually designed to play differently than most people think- you're supposed to expend resources adventuring. WBL isn't supposed to be "the total ammount a character has recieved by X point", it's supposed to be "The total average value of resources this character has at hand".

People who play exceptionally conservatively, who luck out on dice rolls, or with a head for financial shennanigans can end up with much more wealth than listed on the table.

The books do cost the same number of GP per point of bonus, but they're supposed to be a cash gate. "When Character X has approximately Y cash to spend, they should be able to buy a plus Z to whatever ability they choose".

Effectively, in order to scale your bonus as you level, you end up paying three times the cost of a +5 book.

Also: Weapon and armor enchanting is supposed to work the *same way.*

Most DM's don't know this, and the ones who know usually houserule it away, but by RAW, you can't pay 6000 GP to "Upgrade" a +1 sword into a +2 sword, you pay the full 8000.

[Aethir]

Also: Weapon and armor enchanting is supposed to work the *same way.*

Most DM's don't know this, and the ones who know usually houserule it away, but by RAW, you can't pay 6000 GP to "Upgrade" a +1 sword into a +2 sword, you pay the full 8000.

No, it isn't, and no, it doesn't. Please refer to MIC page 233, it doesn't work at all like you seem to think is RAW.

[faceroll]

No, it isn't, and no, it doesn't. Please refer to MIC page 233, it doesn't work at all like you seem to think is RAW.

It's even on the SRD:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#addingNewAbilities

[Acanous]

oho, changed it in the MIC, did they? And here I thought that book was just full of neat goodies and a few optional rules on itemcrafting.

[tyckspoon]

oho, changed it in the MIC, did they? And here I thought that book was just full of neat goodies and a few optional rules on itemcrafting.

It's always been that way; there's a direct example about it in the SRD. The language on it is kind of bizarrely phrased, but the example is very clear.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I don't get why the Tomes and Manuals cost so much. Just buy two CG or LE Candles of Invocation and get 5 wishes cast for a +5 to an ability score, and still have a wish left over. :smallwink:

[Douglas]

oho, changed it in the MIC, did they? And here I thought that book was just full of neat goodies and a few optional rules on itemcrafting.
No, it's always been that way.

Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#addingNewAbilities)

[Vladislav]

It's not a matter of Tomes being overcosted, it's a matter of Candles of Invocation being undercosted to the point of brokenness. BTW, you would do well not to use one of the the most broken item in the game as a measuring stick.

[faceroll]

oho, changed it in the MIC, did they? And here I thought that book was just full of neat goodies and a few optional rules on itemcrafting.

See page 288 of the DMG. It's not an optional rule. It's RAW.

[Hiro Protagonest]

It's not a matter of Tomes being overcosted, it's a matter of Candles of Invocation being undercosted to the point of brokenness. BTW, you would do well not to use one of the the most broken item in the game as a measuring stick.

You need your sarcasm meter checked.

[Curmudgeon]

I don't get why the Tomes and Manuals cost so much. Just buy two CG or LE Candles of Invocation and get 5 wishes cast for a +5 to an ability score, and still have a wish left over. :smallwink:
You'll be sorely disappointed when it turns out every creature summoned by your character has already expended their daily SLAs several hours previously, and the DM just hits you with a big grin.
:biggrin:
Tomes and Manuals might be expensive, but they also work reliably (Barbarians excepted).

[Cieyrin]

Which means your tome of gainful exercize +5 is the only one worth buying.

Only if your stat is odd or if it's your main stat and you spend all your level up stat boosts on it. Otherwise, even a +1 book can be nice if you have odd stats you feel a need to boost and have money for (Everybody likes to boost their Con except for those without it :smallwink:). Planning for stat boosts does help a bit with proper money distribution.


Tomes and Manuals might be expensive, but they also work reliably (Barbarians excepted).

2 skill points or multiclassing out to non-Totemist isn't that high a barrier of entry, really, what with those 4+ skill points.

[ZardozSpeaks]

Another restriction on Candles of Invocation, Manuals, Rings of Wish, etc, is that it requires the creator be able to cast Wish. So if the npc wizard you're dealing with can't cast 9th level spells, it doesn't matter how much it costs.

[Yuki Akuma]

Another restriction on Candles of Invocation, Manuals, Rings of Wish, etc, is that it requires the creator be able to cast Wish. So if the npc wizard you're dealing with can't cast 9th level spells, it doesn't matter how much it costs.

I am unsure what this post is intending to prove...

When talking about inherent bonuses, it's assumed that there's a guy who can cast Wish or Miracle somewhere in the equation, because that's their only source.

[sreservoir]

I am unsure what this post is intending to prove...

When talking about inherent bonuses, it's assumed that there's a guy who can cast Wish or Miracle somewhere in the equation, because that's their only source.

or an artificer, warlock, and that other thing, I don't remember what it was.

[Jack_Simth]

Most DM's don't know this, and the ones who know usually houserule it away, but by RAW, you can't pay 6000 GP to "Upgrade" a +1 sword into a +2 sword, you pay the full 8000.
Umm... Are you sure? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#addingNewAbilities)
Adding New Abilities

A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword.

If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character’s body the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%. For example, if a character adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection +2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5. (emphasis added)

[drakir_nosslin]

Rarely have your signature been so fitting, Jack_Simth :smallbiggrin: