Perks (and Downsides) of DR

[Anarion]

Edit: Wow, I didn't realize that so many people made an issue of when DR applies or not. I always assumed it applied to any normal physical attack or environmental hazard, although something really huge or odd would probably ignore it.


Hey all,

so, a friend and I were discussing how damage reduction actually works, and we started coming up with various lists of things that having damage reduction would noticeably alter, particularly for people with the stoneskin style damage reduction as opposed to the Wolverine fast healing style of damage reduction. It started getting funny, so I figured I would share and see what other people come up with. To start.

1. Squeezing through tight places. For a given pain tolerance, someone who literally doesn't take damage will be able to do more. So, for rough tight spaces (think like crevices in rocks), someone with DR will be able to go further than someone without due to less brush burns or might be able to force themselves through a smaller space that would shred a normal human)

2. Similarly, wading through briar patches or similar. No damage, right? So why not.

3. They might be able to punch harder. Without special equipment or tons of training, you really have to pull punches a little for fear of damaging your hand. But with DR? No such worry. (that might actually warrant +1 damage on unarmed strikes per 5 DR or something, lol).

4. Falling? Can DR lower your fall damage, or is that unavoidable environmental damage? So, you can fall further, so you can jump farther, so probably are going to be less scared of heights.

5. Good in bar fights. Even DR 5 will render someone all but immune to random NPC brawls with unarmed attacks or daggers.

6. I'm not sure, but they may be able to forced march better (that causes NLD.... )

7. No stubbed toes ever!

[MeeposFire]

Most of those don't work since DR only applies to "A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks". It does not apply to anything else unless it states that it does (such as some psionic powers).

[The_Snark]

That said, it would be pretty silly for a DM to actually use it that way in play. That clause is meant to make it clear that damage reduction doesn't help against energy damage, or even against untyped spells like magic missile. Extending it to apply to weaponlike hazards is perfectly logical; I have a hard time imagining, say, an earth elemental being cut up by a briar patch when its hide is supposedly hard enough to blunt steel.

[Doorhandle]

Most of those don't work since DR only applies to "A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks". It does not apply to anything else unless it states that it does (such as some psionic powers).

Besides, the briar does have a natral attack: it's thorns.

[MeeposFire]

Besides, the briar does have a natral attack: it's thorns.

Only if it is a creature. Otherwise it is an object and that would not be a natural attack.

[Coidzor]

particularly for people with the stoneskin style damage reduction as opposed to the Wolverine fast healing style of damage reduction.

Are you sure you're not thinking of Regeneration there? Haven't heard of DR being explained in that manner before.

[Zaq]

Are you sure you're not thinking of Regeneration there? Haven't heard of DR being explained in that manner before.

WotC does actually explain it like that in some places. DMG 291, for instance. "The arrow sticks into the vampire, but she just pulls it out and laughs as the wound instantly heals. “You’ll need to do better than that,” she hisses."

[Urpriest]

Are you sure you're not thinking of Regeneration there? Haven't heard of DR being explained in that manner before.

It's in the core description, actually. It's just not a very popular explanation.

[Hiro Protagonest]

WotC does actually explain it like that in some places. DMG 291, for instance. "The arrow sticks into the vampire, but she just pulls it out and laughs as the wound instantly heals. “You’ll need to do better than that,” she hisses."

I hate that description. It fits perfectly for another mechanic though; fast healing.

[Runestar]

Basically, the attack must involve an attack roll to be counted as an attack to be blocked out by dr. So yes to that melee attack with a sword, no to a boulder dropping on you or the damage you take from attacking a barbed devil. :smallannoyed:

[Chilingsworth]

Wait, is the OP talking about what the up and downsides to having DR would be in real life?

Because, I can think of one downside:

In medical situations, drawing blood, giving IV's, or other treatments/diagnostics involving hypodermics would be all but impossible. Some types of injections might be possible, but anything the requires an intact bloodvessel wouldn't. This is because anything big enough to overcome any significant DR would wreck the bloodvessel.

[Curious]

Basically, the attack must involve an attack roll to be counted as an attack to be blocked out by dr. So yes to that melee attack with a sword, no to a boulder dropping on you or the damage you take from attacking a barbed devil. :smallannoyed:

Funny, I always interpreted DR as applying whenever you take any kind of physical damage. :smallconfused:

[Madcrafter]

My group has always interpreted it as whenever you take non magic damage as well.

And I think it can also be considered as the ability to overcome some of the pain, and just tough out the wounds as well. Like SS's Roll with it.

If you analyze it too much though, it starts degenerating into the same sort of "exactly what is it analogous to?" that you get with HP discussions.

[OverdrivePrime]

A barbarian's damage reduction gets such little actual use, and is of such little help by the levels it shows up that when I'm DMing I always throw the melee characters a bone and have it apply against all physical sources of direct damage - falling, traps, runaway wagons, etc. Not against forced march stuff and the like - that's where Rangers finally get a little love instead.

[Anarion]

Basically, the attack must involve an attack roll to be counted as an attack to be blocked out by dr. So yes to that melee attack with a sword, no to a boulder dropping on you or the damage you take from attacking a barbed devil. :smallannoyed:

Okay, so I can buy this from a RAW perspective. But then I have the following problem. Suppose that there's an avalanche and a rock falls on you and it hurts you because DR didn't apply. Now you're going about your day and you fight some giants. One of the hurls a rock at you of the exact same size and shape as the one that fell during the avalanche, at the exact same velocity. Does it suddenly stop hurting as much?


Wait, is the OP talking about what the up and downsides to having DR would be in real life?

Because, I can think of one downside:

In medical situations, drawing blood, giving IV's, or other treatments/diagnostics involving hypodermics would be all but impossible. Some types of injections might be possible, but anything the requires an intact bloodvessel wouldn't. This is because anything big enough to overcome any significant DR would wreck the bloodvessel.

This is more what I was going for in the OP. Most creatures with DR are explained as having a hardened hide or some kind of supernatural energy that prevents anything from penetrating their skin. Another problem besides giving blood might be that some creatures with DR would have less sensitive nerves since their bodies are evolved to absorb hits without any pain or damage. That could really suck outside combat, where it might be hard to do finely detailed work.

[Curious]

This is more what I was going for in the OP. Most creatures with DR are explained as having a hardened hide or some kind of supernatural energy that prevents anything from penetrating their skin. Another problem besides giving blood might be that some creatures with DR would have less sensitive nerves since their bodies are evolved to absorb hits without any pain or damage. That could really suck outside combat, where it might be hard to do finely detailed work.

Actually, I would think that beings with DR might be eve more sensitive to pain than regular creatures. Think about it; you're a mighty red dragon. For most of your life you hid from other creatures, avoiding conflict to allow for your inevitable growth to push you towards the strength of adulthood. Once you reached teenagerdom, you set out and destroyed a village or two; no one in the place could have dealt more than 6 or 7 damage, and your mighty scales would have easily blocked it. Then, one day, some plucky adventurer murderous hobo wanders into your den, and with a single blow from his magic sword, deals you the first damage you've ever had inflicted on you in your life. How do you think it would feel?

[Anarion]

Actually, I would think that beings with DR might be eve more sensitive to pain than regular creatures. Think about it; you're a mighty red dragon. For most of your life you hid from other creatures, avoiding conflict to allow for your inevitable growth to push you towards the strength of adulthood. Once you reached teenagerdom, you set out and destroyed a village or two; no one in the place could have dealt more than 6 or 7 damage, and your mighty scales would have easily blocked it. Then, one day, some plucky adventurer murderous hobo wanders into your den, and with a single blow from his magic sword, deals you the first damage you've ever had inflicted on you in your life. How do you think it would feel?

I hadn't thought about it from this angle. Would the red dragon be more likely to enter a berserk rage or to cower in fear and surrender?

Also to the comments from earlier about Wolverine fast healing style DR, the Wizards material usually describes vampires and werewolves as having wounds that instantly heal unless they're struck by the right kind of silver or holy weapons. So, by the given fluff, you could actually cut a werewolf with your sword just fine, but then the wound disappears as you pull the sword out. Why they represented that with DR instead of fast healing I'm not quite sure.

And now I have another question. Do the various fae (with DR/cold iron) have hardened skin, fast healing represented as DR, or some kind of illusion magic that prevents them from getting hit in the first place?

[Arbane]

Also, consider :sabine:. She gets hurt, a lot. Shot with arrows, gets her neck broken... it just doesn't _matter_, for the most part.

[Necroticplague]

And now I have another question. Do the various fey (with DR/cold iron) have hardened skin, fast healing represented as DR, or some kind of illusion magic that prevents them from getting hit in the first place?

I think its simply a "weakness" represented as a vulnerability in its DR (like for werewolfs, which are "vulnerable" to silver). Since the fairies they based bey off were weak against iron, but it would be hard to represent that within the game mechanics, they gave it damage resistance and had it overcome by its vulnerability.

[MeeposFire]

Funny, I always interpreted DR as applying whenever you take any kind of physical damage. :smallconfused:

That would be intuitive and would make sense on so many levels but that isn't what is written.

[Starbuck_II]

I think its simply a "weakness" represented as a vulnerability in its DR (like for werewolfs, which are "vulnerable" to silver). Since the fairies they based bey off were weak against iron, but it would be hard to represent that within the game mechanics, they gave it damage resistance and had it overcome by its vulnerability.

Well, Killorens in Races of Wild did represent that.
They are fey, and they have Cold Iron Anthama: They take a penalty to using cold iron. But then again, they don't get any DR.

[Anarion]

I think its simply a "weakness" represented as a vulnerability in its DR (like for werewolfs, which are "vulnerable" to silver). Since the fairies they based bey off were weak against iron, but it would be hard to represent that within the game mechanics, they gave it damage resistance and had it overcome by its vulnerability.

But..but haven't you ever seen a pixie in a bar fight take down an entire room of commoners while ignoring all the flying bottles and chairs people are smashing against it?

[Zagaroth]

Actually, I would think that beings with DR might be eve more sensitive to pain than regular creatures. Think about it; you're a mighty red dragon. For most of your life you hid from other creatures, avoiding conflict to allow for your inevitable growth to push you towards the strength of adulthood. Once you reached teenagerdom, you set out and destroyed a village or two; no one in the place could have dealt more than 6 or 7 damage, and your mighty scales would have easily blocked it. Then, one day, some plucky adventurer murderous hobo wanders into your den, and with a single blow from his magic sword, deals you the first damage you've ever had inflicted on you in your life. How do you think it would feel?

"This must be what pain feels like! Oh, mama! Someone maternal!"

If you don't know the quote, just start watching here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apEZpYnN_1g

[Curious]

"This must be what pain feels like! Oh, mama! Someone maternal!"

If you don't know the quote, just start watching here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apEZpYnN_1g

Before even clicking on this, I know it's Doctor Horrible. :smallbiggrin:

[MesiDoomstalker]

But..but haven't you ever seen a pixie in a bar fight take down an entire room of commoners while ignoring all the flying bottles and chairs people are smashing against it?

This is no more improbable than anything else in D&D. Just because its cute and small with little wings doesn't mean its a lightweight.

[Coidzor]

Wait, is the OP talking about what the up and downsides to having DR would be in real life?

Because, I can think of one downside:

In medical situations, drawing blood, giving IV's, or other treatments/diagnostics involving hypodermics would be all but impossible. Some types of injections might be possible, but anything the requires an intact bloodvessel wouldn't. This is because anything big enough to overcome any significant DR would wreck the bloodvessel.

That reminds me of a bit from, IIRC, the most recent Superman movie.

[Worira]

Or this. (http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1606#comic)

Was going to post the Dr. Horrible, too, but got beaten to the punch.

[Byzantine]

On the term on in game effects and sources, I see each creature having a different 'reason' for the lack of damage. For vampires, remember, they do have fast healing (even if it only works noticeably after 50% hp). So it's entirely possible that a weapon that fails to overcome their DR simply didn't get past the dead fleshy bits to anything important. When the arrow is pulled out, their normally superficial healing factor closes the wound. Alternately, necromantic magic. For other creatures, it can be described as either deadened nerves, superficial healing (no HP value, but the skin closes/doesn't bleed), too tough to get through, or any number of other reasons. Flexibility! :smallbiggrin:

As for applications, I think that's more of a DM ruling thing, depending on the type of DR. Using the boulder example, what if you have DR x/bludgeoning? Then both rocks would hurt you the same, relative to the force and whether or not you get hit in a bad spot.

Real life effects? Well.... you certainly couldn't pinch yourself to make sure you aren't dreaming. I'd use another example, but I wouldn't want to make the males of the thread.... uncomfortable.

[Eldan]

Real life effects? Well.... you certainly couldn't pinch yourself to make sure you aren't dreaming. I'd use another example, but I wouldn't want to make the males of the thread.... uncomfortable.

Actually, you can. Your own attacks usually overcome your own DR.

That said: clipping your nails. I'm imagining werewolves with silver nail clippers.

[The_Snark]

Actually, you can. Your own attacks usually overcome your own DR.

Only if you've got DR/magic or DR/epic. DR/material doesn't come with any special ability to bypass your own damage reduction. (That's actually an important element in at least one monster society: tsochar favor intrigue and social dominance battles because they're nigh-incapable of actually hurting one another.) Same for DR/alignment, but that's almost always accompanied by an alignment subtype, which gives you the aligned strike quality. This means you can hurt your enemies on the alignment scale... but not others of your own kind, generally. This is why the Blood War never gets anywhere!

(Well, not the sole cause, but it can't hurt.)

[Urpriest]

This is more what I was going for in the OP. Most creatures with DR are explained as having a hardened hide or some kind of supernatural energy that prevents anything from penetrating their skin. Another problem besides giving blood might be that some creatures with DR would have less sensitive nerves since their bodies are evolved to absorb hits without any pain or damage. That could really suck outside combat, where it might be hard to do finely detailed work.

Indeed, sensitivity to touch (http://www.goblinscomic.com/09092011/) can be very important (http://www.goblinscomic.com/09132011/).