Making a lot of Body outside Body Clones

[Talionis]

Warblade 1/ Wu Jen 4/ Jade Phoenix Mage 10/ Uncanny Trickster (JPM) 3/ Archmage 1/ Warblade 1

Feats
1 Open/Open
3 Spell Focus
6 Martial Manuever -- Iron Heart Surge
9 Martial Manuever -- White Raven Tactics
12 Spell Focus
15 Skill Focus -- Spellcraft
18 Martial Stance -- Immortal Stance

If you use Archmage's High Arcana ability to turn Body Outside Body into a Spell Like Ability you can use twice a day, it is no longer a spell and your Clones can make copies of themselves. This build gets you one ninth level manuever at 20, I'm not sure which is the best to get. With all the clones, White Raven -- War Master's Charge might be good, but so might Devoted Spirit -- Strike of Righteous Vitality or Tiger's -- Feral Death Blow (which could get you a ton of save or die attempts).

Greater Divine Surge is a great strike that allows you to take Constitution Damge to add more damage to your attack. Clones don't really mind taking Constitution Damage. You can just make more of them.

Clones can use Arcane Wrath can help them to hit more opten with pretty good damage added. Since you are dumping spells they can't use anyway.

Clones making clones continue to get less and less HP's (I'm pretty sure). But by being in Immortal Fortitude stance lets you live through attacks that would kill less characters/clones. And if you can't save yourself with Immortal Fortitude and healing, you can just cause the clone to explode with Jade Phoenix's Emerald Immolation ability. While this too can be used as a ton of bombs to damage something, I'm really not sure exactly if the clones will come back with the full recovery that comes with the Emerald Immolation ability.

This gets you 8th level spells at level 20. The Heart of Earth series of spells was added to Wu Jen in the Complete Mage edition.

What other spells might be helpful for this kind of character? What manuevers do you think would be the most help? Is there one level of a Martial Class that might help at 20?

[Thrice Dead Cat]

*snip*

I did something similar a while back, but instead, the build was focused more on "godly" clones than just swarms of them.

From memory, I think I went Wu Jen 3/Human Paragon 3/Ruathar 3/Eldritch Knight X/Abjurant Champion 5/Archmage 1 for sweet, sweet, clones/EK +X/Archmage +1 for Transcend Mortality.

Transcend Mortality makes the clones near godlike for defense for the ~1 minute they are alive with things like Energy Resistance 50: All, DR 20-30/epic, and more shenanigans.

That being said, if I were to redo it, I would definitely go with Crusader Jade Phoenix Mage instead. Something like Crusader 1/Wu Jen X/JPM 10/Archmage 2/Abjurant Champion the rest.

[Talionis]

I did something similar a while back, but instead, the build was focused more on "godly" clones than just swarms of them.

I tried to get to level 9 spells, but I couldn't find a good way to get to 9th level manuevers and 9th level spells, at least with Archmage too.

Transend Mortality is very cool. You can use it on yourself too with Emerald Immolation, you'll eventually comeback.

Did you have any specific spells or tricks that worked well for you?

[RndmNumGen]

If you use Archmage's High Arcana ability to turn Body Outside Body into a Spell Like Ability you can use twice a day, it is no longer a spell and your Clones can make copies of themselves.

Why would your clones be able to clone themselves if it's a SLA?

[Talionis]

Why would your clones be able to clone themselves if it's a SLA?

They are copies of you and the only thing they cannot do that you can do is cast spells or use spell completion or spell trigger items.

[sreservoir]

9th spells, even wu jen spells, are generally nicer than 9th maneuvers. if you don't know which you want, it's not worth giving up casting.

speaking of transcend mortality, it's quite fun when you use it with pact of return. "I expect to die by the effect of the spell 'transcend mortality' cast on myself by me" should be specific enough.

getting it on your spell list, that's the hard part.

[Talionis]

9th spells, even wu jen spells, are generally nicer than 9th maneuvers. if you don't know which you want, it's not worth giving up casting.

speaking of transcend mortality, it's quite fun when you use it with pact of return. "I expect to die by the effect of the spell 'transcend mortality' cast on myself by me" should be specific enough.

getting it on your spell list, that's the hard part.

Well the clones can use the manuevers, but they cannot cast the spells. So much of the build is really geared towards making a lot of clones, I'm trying to make the clones as good as possible.

As for getting Pact of Return on your spell list isn't there a Domain with most of the Pacts and a feat that allows you to add the Pacts to your spelllist. But you really don't need it if you are ok with Emerald Immolating yourself at the end of the Transcended Mortatlity. I think EI can be used only once a week though.

[Hazzardevil]

Well the clones can use the manuevers, but they cannot cast the spells. So much of the build is really geared towards making a lot of clones, I'm trying to make the clones as good as possible.

As for getting Pact of Return on your spell list isn't there a Domain with most of the Pacts and a feat that allows you to add the Pacts to your spelllist. But you really don't need it if you are ok with Emerald Immolating yourself at the end of the Transcended Mortatlity. I think EI can be used only once a week though.
I've found a way ti actually have you and every clone cast body outside body every round for free, never running out and doing it once. So you could start with yourself and presuming you have CL 25, that is 6 copies next round, then 36 the round after and then multiply that by 6 every round.
All for the cost of a level 15 spell slot, and silent, still, quicken and innate spell.
This is the innate spell from complete arcane.
Interested?

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I tried to get to level 9 spells, but I couldn't find a good way to get to 9th level manuevers and 9th level spells, at least with Archmage too.

Transend Mortality is very cool. You can use it on yourself too with Emerald Immolation, you'll eventually comeback.

Did you have any specific spells or tricks that worked well for you?

Tricks I used: I asked for Wraithstrike as a Wu Jen (metal) spell and got it, so that helped. Free touch attacks for my(real)self were wonderful. I also asked for Heroics to be a Wu Jen spell, which is great, as it turns 2nd level spell slots into fighter bonus feats for 10 minutes per caster level.

If I were to remake the build today, this is what I would do this, assuming Human:

Crusader 1: Your first level feats are Favored and Primary Contact (set to Concentration), both from Cityscape. These help save you a BAB, because you won't have to go Wu Jen 5 to get into Jade Phoenix Mage. If you can get flaws, go ahead and grab your two Spell Focuses now, as you technically qualifying them even though you can't cast spells.:smallwink:
Wu Jen 1-4: Your bonus metamagic feat goes to Extend Spell, because Extend is the metamagic feat for gishes. Your third level feat is either Combat Casting for Abjurant Champion, pre-reqs for Archmage, or Power Attack for more damage.
Jade Phoenix Mage 10: Feats for levels 6, 9, and 12 go to meeting requirements for Archmage. If you got the flaws, then get things that make you better at being a Gish. Top picks are Persistent Spell (Persistent Wraithstrike is more than worth the feat and spell slots. And that is only one of each!:smallwink:)
Abjurant Champion 1: Being non-evil and a prepared caster, grab the ever lovely Luminous Armor spell line from Book of Exalted Deeds. Those and the Shield spell are your armor/shield bonuses to AC for basically every level. Abjurant Champion actually does boost Luminous Armor by RAW. If your DM houserules that the Mage Armor line works, then, well, sweet!
Archmage 1: Sacrificing spell slots for either Giant Size (Sweet, sweet Colossal Clones? Yes, please!) or Body Outside Body (Clones making clones making clones!)


Your last three levels are, in no particular order Abjurant Champion 2-3 and Archmage 2. This build gives you an ending BAB of +18 with spells as a 17th level caster, pre-epic. If you want more clones, then I'd go Archmage 2 before Abjurant Champion to grab either Body Outside Body or Giant Size as a SLA, whichever one I didn't take before hand. If I wanted to wait till level 20 to get my second level of Archmage, then I would instead grab Giant Size as my first SLA and wait for the second one to be Transcend Mortality!


A few notes about this type of build: for most of your career levels 1-15, you'll be a weird, Oriental-themed gish. Depending on point-buy/stats, you could be a tank from levels ~1-5 or you could be more caster-based with a few crusader healing tricks. Your call, really.

Once you start getting levels in Jade Phoenix Mage, gear should go to getting survivability (generally speaking, stat boosters to DEX, CON, STR, and INT) and better weapons. With Jade Phoenix Mage, you won't have the highest HP, but your spells can cover you in place of real armor. By the time you have your first Archmage level (When I played, I grabbed Giant Size for GIANT CLONES rather than Clones making clones making clones ad infinitum), you are a solid spell caster with a lot of martial tricks. You generally should open combat creating your first generation clones, who go about being clones and using all of the martial maneuvers they have before exploding with the JPM capstone.

If you have more advice, just ask. This is a rough guide, not an end-all, be-all. If you want higher level maneuvers, then delay Jade Phoenix Mage with earlier levels of Abjurant Champion. If you don't want exploding clones or you just want more AC earlier, then Abjurant Champion is a solid choice in place of the later levels of Jade Phoenix Mage, too.

[Tvtyrant]

You know the clones already blow up for 20d6 and then come back; you don't really need anything but tons of them. Just let them swarm, explode, swarm, explode, etc. If you have one go off they all go off for massive damage.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

You know the clones already blow up for 20d6 and then come back; you don't really need anything but tons of them. Just let them swarm, explode, swarm, explode, etc. If you have one go off they all go off for massive damage.

The problem with exploding is that it doesn't have a listed action type, so I've always assumed it to be a standard action. That and the fact that because clones only last for 10 rounds, it would suck to have them open up exploding, possibly wasting 1d6+1 rounds of time reforming.