Tome of Magic in a witchy pirate campaign

[Kol Korran]

hello playgrounders. i'm working on a possible campaign, which is basically a pirate campaign in accursed islands. the PCs come from the islands, while a colonial force (which for now we'll call the Empire) tries to establish hold and rule.

i'm making the two cultures use vastly different kinds of magic. the Empire are more organized, more thoughtful and methodical, and thus have the wizard, cleric and artificer on their side.only 3 classes, but they cover a lot.

the islands have far more diverse magic traditions, but each is more limited than the Empire does. they work on slightly different rules (i won't get into that)m and have quite a lot of different flavor). they are all spontaneous or feel like they are.- fewer powers, but can be used whenever they like.

so far i'm using the following: warlocks, favored souls (with alterations), sorcerers, dusk blades, dragon shamans, spirit shamans, hex blades (with a gix), bards and spell thieves.

i've recently got the Tome of Magic (mostyl due to seeing the Binder's hype on the forums), and though i gathered that True namers are a no-no, i wondered how would you think Binders and Shadow casters fit in this setting:
1) do they fit the over all general feel? (in terms of mechanics) i've read a bit about them so far (little RL time) any pitfalls i should be aware of? should they be fixed in any way? they don't need to be the most powerful, but present interesting possibilities, and hold their own.(please compare them to the island classes, not the Empire ones)

2) if a fix is needed for them, where can i find it?

3) any ideas as to their flavor?

thanks a lot!
Kol.

(search word: piratewitch)

[Hirax]

Have a look at the witch hunter prestige class in Tome of Magic, and perhaps occult slayer in Complete Warrior. If you include binders, which is a solid idea, I think you'll be able to find a place for those prcs as well.

[deuxhero]

Binders are fine (beware one of the online vestigates can make them pretty crazy tier 2 stuff), Shadowcasters have a semi-official fix out there.

Do you plan to use Psionics?

[Kol Korran]

@ Hirax:i was thinking as having the Spell thief (with a few adjustment) act as a Witch hunter (witch is a general name for all the island casters) but i'll look the prestige classes up. thanks!

@ deuxhero:i'm probably not using psionics, since my players don't like them much, and since they don't seem to fit the campaign much. what semi official fix is there?

[Psyren]

You need to use a fix (any of these (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=l7ijes283tqa3617t6s5iau127&topic=11610.msg397441#msg397441) will work, one of which comes from the designer) to really make Shadowcaster playable, otherwise they'll spend way too much time with the crossbow and not enough feeling like an actual caster.

As for flavor, they're absolutely a good fit. They're creepy, quiet, and iconic - controlling someone by manipulating their shadow is staple fantasy/myth.

[skycycle blues]

I'm just curious, which side gets Druids? I didn't see them on either side's list.

[Anarchy_Kanya]

I'm just curious, which side gets Druids? I didn't see them on either side's list.
Neither. Druids aren't the kind that works for empires and their not spontaneous casters.

[Kol Korran]

I'm just curious, which side gets Druids? I didn't see them on either side's list.

Anarchy_Kanya is right neither side gets these. The druids belong to a third force in the scene, called the Sebiccai (sort of exotic eastern Cat folk)

@ Psyern: thanks for the link, exactly what i needed. adjustment to shadow casters- check.

[deuxhero]

What about Dragon Fire Adepts?

[Kol Korran]

What about Dragon Fire Adepts?

i don't have them on my sources. what book are they in?

[vampire2948]

i don't have them on my sources. what book are they in?

Dragon Magic - They're basically Warlocks that have dragon-themed invocations and class features.

Here's a web version. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060912a&page=2)

[ThiefInTheNight]

Binders are awesome, and well done. Don't worry too much about the online vestiges, either: only Zceryll is imbalanced (she grants a 1/5-rounds level-appropriate Summon Monster; this is very powerful and flexible — fixes are easy though, just lower the level or put a longer cooldown or a cap on how many times per day it can be used).


Shadowcasters are awesome, but are weak. They get very, very, very few Mysteries per day, very, very, very few Mysteries known, and very, very, very few particularly good Mysteries to choose from (the lack of Mysteries known vs. the lack of good Mysteries to pick kind of cancel out, but in a sucky way).

Ari Marmell (the author) has a well-known fix, but it doesn't go far enough, IMO. If someone is interested in a Shadowcaster, I suggest leaving the mechanics a bit "up in the air" and allowing a few "test runs" to try different houserules. I've seen people try making Mysteries /encounter (solved the first problem, but left the other two), doubling the Mysteries known (due to their mechanics, helps with both of the first two), combining either or both of these with Ari Marmell's fix, etc. I think it's best to see what works and what doesn't for your group, and tinker.

Homebrewing new mysteries would really, really help, too. Remember that their fluff is all about how they're excellent at manipulating magic (rather than manipulating real things with magic) — try to give them interesting ways to dispel (maybe respel?), take over others' spells, counterspell, etc. etc. Notice how the Shadows Fall (IIRC) Path is horrible (Dispel Magic as a 4th-level Mystery, when they're supposed to be good at this stuff!), and replace it with an Apprentice Path, IMO (a capless Dispel Magic at 3rd would be appropriate; fits their fluff, and saves them a desperately-needed Mystery known).


Truenamers are awesome, but completely hopeless. Where Shadowcasters are close and just need some tinkering, Truenamers need an overhaul. Kellus's and Kyeudo's seem to be the best options out there.

[Kol Korran]

@ ThiefInTheNight: thanks for the well written overview of the matter. i've allready left true namers out after the bad bad things i've heard about them (though the concept is quite awesome i think).

i've checked the mentioned fixes for the shadow caster, though i haven't had time, nor will i probably have time to homebrew new mysteries. if my players will post an interest at playing one, or if i'll make such an NPC, i'll see.

and binders i left as is, though it will take me a little to get used to them. trying MANY new things this campaign

vampire2948: ok, so i saw the DFA- a sort of mix of dragon shaman (or just the breath weapon) and warlock. doesn't really bring anything new to my campaign, and i allready got enough dragon themed classes. thanks anyway!

[ThiefInTheNight]

@ ThiefInTheNight: thanks for the well written overview of the matter. i've allready left true namers out after the bad bad things i've heard about them (though the concept is quite awesome i think).

i've checked the mentioned fixes for the shadow caster, though i haven't had time, nor will i probably have time to homebrew new mysteries. if my players will post an interest at playing one, or if i'll make such an NPC, i'll see.

and binders i left as is, though it will take me a little to get used to them. trying MANY new things this campaign
Sounds good; I do recommend trying to get Shadowcasters and Truenamers in your games eventually, as they're really cool. They definitely do take more work, though.


vampire2948: ok, so i saw the DFA- a sort of mix of dragon shaman (or just the breath weapon) and warlock. doesn't really bring anything new to my campaign, and i allready got enough dragon themed classes. thanks anyway!
Frankly, the DfA should be the only dragon-themed class you need. The Dragon Shaman is terrible; the Dragonfire Adept is everything the Dragon Shaman should have been to begin with. If you feel you have too many dragon-themed classes, nix the Dragon Shaman in favor of the Dragonfire Adept; it's much better.

But yes, the Dragonfire Adept is basically a dragon-themed Warlock.

[Maho-Tsukai]

While it's not exactly for the pirate side, I have a suggestion for another caster class for the Empire...Archivists. Archivists are prepared divine casters that like wizards cast off int and use mainly the cleric list...however, they ALSO can learn from other divine lists, via written sources, including druid.(So archivists can cast almost any spell in the game.) Personally if the empire is not highly religious I feel that archivists would be a better fit for them then clerics, but if you want clerics in the empire I can see both classes there just fine. Clerics serving as the martial wing of the state religion/main churches and archivists as the cloistered lay priests. I don't know why, but I just see archivists as totally fitting in the empire like a glove.

Also, for the islands have you ever thought of Beguilers? Spontaneous casters who can cast from their entire list focused on illusions and enchantments who also get some rogue-esc skills and class features. Personally I think Beguilers would make awesome pirate types with all the rogue-esc abilities they get. Another class you may like for the islands is the Warmage, which casts like a beguiler but instead of focusing on being tricky focuses on being blasty. The warmage is not that great a class, but when put right next to some of the others you listed it should fit right in.

The Dread Necromancer also casts like the beguiler and warmage, but with the point of the class being having lots and lots of minions and generally being an evil necromancer I don't think it fits the free-spirited, rebellious fluff you seem to have for the Islands. However, if you wanted to pull the whole "Undead Pirates" trope the DN could be a means to do that.

[Kol Korran]

While it's not exactly for the pirate side, I have a suggestion for another caster class for the Empire...Archivists. Archivists are prepared divine casters that like wizards cast off int and use mainly the cleric list...however, they ALSO can learn from other divine lists, via written sources, including druid.(So archivists can cast almost any spell in the game.) Personally if the empire is not highly religious I feel that archivists would be a better fit for them then clerics, but if you want clerics in the empire I can see both classes there just fine. Clerics serving as the martial wing of the state religion/main churches and archivists as the cloistered lay priests. I don't know why, but I just see archivists as totally fitting in the empire like a glove.

Also, for the islands have you ever thought of Beguilers? Spontaneous casters who can cast from their entire list focused on illusions and enchantments who also get some rogue-esc skills and class features. Personally I think Beguilers would make awesome pirate types with all the rogue-esc abilities they get. Another class you may like for the islands is the Warmage, which is casts like a beguiler but instead of focusing on being tricky focuses on being blasty. The warmage is not that great a class, but when put right next to some of the others you listed it should fit right in.

The Dread Necromancer also casts like the beguiler and warmage, but with the point of the class being having lots and lots of minions and generally being an evil necromancer I don't think it fits the free-spirted, rebelious fluff you seem to have for the Islands, though the DN could make a good villain character if you want to pull the whole "Undead Pirates" trope.

:smallsigh: sources people, sources! the archivist i only heard of, and i actually think it might fit one of the other non-islanders cultures. as you describe them, they seem redundant in the Empire.

the beguiler i considered, and though i like it's flavor, i allready have an enchantment and illusion focused type of sorcerer (they have influences of specific dragons), and the beguiler outshines him in any way possible. i think it's too strong for my witches.

the warmage works for the empire. magical artilery while the wizards are the problem solvers.

the dread necro... no, it doesn't fit. the islanders will untie and destroy them quickly. the witches (the island casters) have some bad sorts amongst them, but not that bad. might fit later, there is still too much new in this to put it in.

source on the archivist? :smallsmile:

[Maho-Tsukai]

Heroes of Horror, the same supplement the Dread Necro comes from.

[Psyren]

Archivist is also online. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3)

[Kol Korran]

this is quite interesting... hmmm, i'll need to think where to put it. perhaps it would fit in the empire...