Innate Spell, more overpowered than arcane swordsage?

[Hazzardevil]

No-one talks about Arcane Swordsage much, mostly because it is easily broken by it spamming certain spells over and over again. (Like Body Outside Body.)
Is Innate Spell never talked about for the same reason?

[sreservoir]

how do you intend to get slots eight levels higher than you have? the best I've been able to manage are 12th-level, barring circle magic. circle magic will let you get innate 11ths, but ... circle magic.

[Urpriest]

Pretty sure you can't spam Innate Spell, or you can't get very high level spells out of it, depending on the version. Which book's version are you looking at?

[Hazzardevil]

Pretty sure you can't spam Innate Spell, or you can't get very high level spells out of it, depending on the version. Which book's version are you looking at?

The version I read was Complete Arcane.
Can't you just be a Wu Jen with a level in a class that grants spontaneous casting, and convert all your spell slots into one level 15 spell slot, use that gain a casting of body outside body every round and then reprepare your spells.
You have permanently lost a 15th level slot, but you can't get them outside of circle magic shenanigans or versatile spellcaster, so no loss there.
And now you can just over-populate the world with an infinite supply of clones who multiply their number by your CL/5 every 6 seconds.

[Urpriest]

The version I read was Complete Arcane.
Can't you just be a Wu Jen with a level in a class that grants spontaneous casting, and convert all your spell slots into one level 15 spell slot, use that gain a casting of body outside body every round and then reprepare your spells.
You have permanently lost a 15th level slot, but you can't get them outside of circle magic shenanigans or versatile spellcaster, so no loss there.
And now you can just over-populate the world with an infinite supply of clones who multiply their number by your CL/5 every 6 seconds.

If you accept levels of cheese that grant you 15th level slots then an infinite supply of clones isn't outstandingly impressive.

[Flickerdart]

That's not how Versatile Spellcaster works - you can't daisy-chain the spells it gives you, because they're not slots.

[Hazzardevil]

That's not how Versatile Spellcaster works - you can't daisy-chain the spells it gives you, because they're not slots.

Oh, I'm sure the wording didn't look like that the last time I read it.

[NNescio]

Oh, I'm sure the wording didn't look like that the last time I read it.


...You can use two spell slots of the same level to cast a spell you know that is one level higher.

You use two lower-level spell slots to cast a single spell that is one level higher. You don't actually get a new spell slot.

[hex0]

You use two lower-level spell slots to cast a single spell that is one level higher. You don't actually get a new spell slot.

Same as Heighten Spell and Sanctum spell shenanigans, right?

[sreservoir]

Same as Heighten Spell and Sanctum spell shenanigans, right?

those aren't intended to get you slots of that level. innate spell requires you to give up the slot, not just be able to cast such a spell.

[Randomguy]

No, it's actually a bit underpowered unless you're playing at ridiculously high levels (Or a ridiculous amount of cheese), most of the time. There are few low level spells that are worth casting every round, and the requirements are pretty steep.
Most damaging spells are useless for innate spell, since before epic you could only use 1st level spells, and an offensive reserve feat taking up an 8th level slot is more powerful than any 1st level spell by a lot.
Cure minor wounds (Or cure light wounds) might be worth taking since it basically lets you get to full health after every combat without wasting any money on wands, but it still takes time, which can be an issue.
Most low level spells that are neither damaging nor healing aren't worth casting about once per round. And for the spells that are, it's normally better to just use persist spell, since it takes up a lower level slot.
This leaves only a few kinds of spells: Battlefield control, like grease and wall of smoke, spells that deal ability damage, like ray of enfeeblement (So you can spam them at your enemies) and spells that give buffs that are eventually discharged, like nerveskitter and true strike. And even then, only spells that don't allow saving throws are really worth taking, since 1st level spells are pretty easy to save against at high levels.