Crusader healing? Nonlethal mountain hammer?

[shadow_archmagi]

Crusaders get a manuever that lets them heal. When out of combat, can they just punch walls to heal?

Also, can manuevers be used to deal nonlethal damage?

[Seerow]

1) Yes

2) Just like with normal attacks, you can take a penalty to deal nonlethal damage. I want to say it's -4 to hit to make a non-lethal attack.

[Curious]

I want to say it's -4 to hit to make a non-lethal attack.

Yup, that's right.

[The Dark Fiddler]

1) Yes

I want to say the maneuvers require your opponent has at least one alignment component different from you (or maybe it's just a specific one in the line, in which case ignore this), so unless you have a very lenient DM, then no, you can't punch walls and heal because they have no alignment to differ from.

[The Underlord]

Dont they also require that they pose a threat to you?

[Seerow]

I want to say the maneuvers require your opponent has at least one alignment component different from you (or maybe it's just a specific one in the line, in which case ignore this), so unless you have a very lenient DM, then no, you can't punch walls and heal because they have no alignment to differ from.

Is that an actual requirement of the maneuvers? Because that seems pretty weird?

I honestly haven't paid attention to any alignment restrictions at all in years, so I wouldn't know. I honestly think the game is better for throwing alignment as a game construct out the window.

[Curious]

I want to say the maneuvers require your opponent has at least one alignment component different from you (or maybe it's just a specific one in the line, in which case ignore this), so unless you have a very lenient DM, then no, you can't punch walls and heal because they have no alignment to differ from.

Actually, I think inanimate objects are Neutral.

[tyckspoon]

The Crusader strikes all specify that you must hit an enemy who poses a direct, immediate threat to you or your allies (which, incidentally, means that if your Wizard has successfully paralyzed/put to sleep an enemy, you can't heal by whacking him.) So you can't beat up inanimate objects/random summons/whatever for those, because they either aren't enemies or pose no actual threat to you. The Martial Spirit stance, on the other hand, just requires a 'successful melee attack', and can be used to (slowly) heal by pummeling pretty much anything, including bare-knuckle boxing your friends (assuming you didn't invest in unarmed damage, you'll do 1d3 nonlethal, which will on average be immediately healed back.)

That is broadly considered an exploit and probably would have been adjusted to match the strikes if they'd ever actually done Tome of Battle errata, but it's there.

[Seerow]

The real question is if it breaks anything to let the Crusader heal the party to full between encounters.

The answer to that is no. It might save the party some money on wands of vigor, but past the early levels out of combat healing is so cheap relative to your expected wealth, letting one character say "I heal the party to full" doesn't hurt the game in the least, so why try to rule-lawyer it to say that he can't?

[The Dark Fiddler]

Is that an actual requirement of the maneuvers? Because that seems pretty weird?

Having checked, I can safely say that yes, the strikes require your target have a different alignment from you to provide healing, and also require they provide a threat to you. As tyckspoon points out, though, the Martial Spirit stance has no such requirements...


Actually, I think inanimate objects are Neutral.

They have no mental ability scores, so they have no alignment.



The real question is if it breaks anything to let the Crusader heal the party to full between encounters.

The answer to that is no. It might save the party some money on wands of vigor, but past the early levels out of combat healing is so cheap relative to your expected wealth, letting one character say "I heal the party to full" doesn't hurt the game in the least, so why try to rule-lawyer it to say that he can't?

It's hardly rules-lawyering to enforce two blatantly stated restrictions on the maneuvers.

[Big Fau]

It's hardly rules-lawyering to enforce two blatantly stated restrictions on the maneuvers.

I'll agree with that when referencing Aura of Triumph and the various healing strikes, but I'd never let it slide when in reference to Martial Spirit.

[Coidzor]

I want to say the maneuvers require your opponent has at least one alignment component different from you (or maybe it's just a specific one in the line, in which case ignore this), so unless you have a very lenient DM, then no, you can't punch walls and heal because they have no alignment to differ from.

Eww, why would you want to make combat more boring when you're trying to spice things up by putting the party in conflict with their own side? :smallyuk:


The Crusader strikes all specify that you must hit an enemy who poses a direct, immediate threat to you or your allies (which, incidentally, means that if your Wizard has successfully paralyzed/put to sleep an enemy, you can't heal by whacking him.)

Interesting. So no surprise attacks by Crusaders then? That's just mean-spirited.

Wait... Doesn't this also mean that Crusaders aren't able to spar properly by RAW? :smallconfused: (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeLogic)

So that whole School of the Nine Swords thing... Heh...:smallamused:

[tyckspoon]

[I]
Wait... Doesn't this also mean that Crusaders aren't able to spar properly by RAW? :smallconfused: (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeLogic)

So that whole School of the Nine Swords thing... Heh...:smallamused:

Of course not. D&D also has no penalties for HP damage, and Crusaders can't (usually) one-shot each other with a strike, so all you have to do is make sure you're paired off with an opponent who has an alignment difference. You trade blows until somebody falls over, and then you take that guy over to where a dude is using Martial Spirit to practice with a training dummy and the Martial Spirit guy stands him back up. It just means Crusader training is full-contact.