PDA

View Full Version : [3.5] Combat Traps |FD Spotlight|



Hanuman
2011-10-09, 09:01 PM
Hello, for this spotlight we will be covering the addition of Combat Traps, these are traps designed to be used by adventurer and DM alike, they have simple mechanisms and are not specifically designed to kill an enemy.
While they can be set up as boobytraps, to add passive flavor to dungeons, and to provide security to camps the main benefit is that these can be deployed during an encounter.
It is suggested that you negotiate with your DM to expand the flavor of these traps, but what's presented is the raw format, enjoy!

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Combat Traps

Each combat trap covers a 5' square, this square activates the trap whether it's Static (Passive) or Trigger (One time activation).
Trigger traps have a proximity activation of 0'.
Setting a static trap requires 10 move actions that may be taken at any time.
Setting a Trigger trap requires 2 full round actions and requires concentration. On completion this trap you may take a free 5' step out of the square. A failed concentration check triggers a misfire, which triggers the trap.
It takes a DC0 spot check to recognize these traps, but a user may use a single disguise check to change this spot DC so that it is equal to the disguise check result. Each +1 DC you raise it by takes an additional partial action.
Up to 4 creatures can contribute move actions to creating a static trap or aid in concentration checks for a Trigger trap. Failed aids in concentration trigger the trap.
Multiple traps debuffs stack in duration, but do not provoke additional saves or stacked effect.


http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/7692/tbarbed.jpg
Barbs - 2gp - Static
Hammer 2-way sharp piton spikes into the ground creating permanent caltrops.
Requires a hammer and a 1sp hammer sink.

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/815/tbearx.jpg
Jaws - 50gp - Trigger, Reset
Lay down a foothold clamping trap with sharp blades affixed, it uses a spring to close the trap after a central pressure plate is triggered. This trap when triggered and not tethered reverts to it's original state.

Entering the square does not necessarily set off the trap, instead the trap makes a melee attack roll against the target with a +0 melee attack, if the trap misses it is not triggered, if the attack hits the creature must make a DC35 reflex save or be struck for 1d6 piercing damage and be considered tethered by the Jaw Trap with a tether DC of 20. Attempting to remove this tether causes the foe to take 1 damage, making an opposed tether check for the purposes of moving out of your square while tethered in this trap causes you to take 1d4 slashing damage. Taking any damage from this trap causes a foe to become crippled.

You may modify the trap in the following ways:
Increasing Size Improve damage by 1 weapon size, multiply weight and cost by 8, increase tether DC by 3
Decreasing Size Decrease damage by 1 weapon size, divide weight and cost by 2, decrease tether DC by 3
Adding Tether A loop may or may not be on this trap, any tether may be attached.
Adding Alchemical Metals You may modify this trap in any way as if it were a medium weapon, with the addition of magnetizing the metals. For each 100g you spend magnetizing it it gains a +1 to it's tether DC to a maximum of +5.
*Jaw traps are originally sized to catch a medium or large creature, creatures smaller or larger than this get a +2 bonus to their AC to avoid the traps effects, modifying the traps size changes this range by one stage larger or smaller.

This trap has an adjustable pressure dial that you may modify as you lay it, it has 3 settings which can be adjusted while laying the trap:
Hair Trigger Increase trap misfires while laying by +2, it gains a +2 bonus to attack rolls, anything of 1/4lb or higher automatically sets off the trap, any object of less weight has a 60% chance of setting off the trap.
Lure You may place a number of objects of up to 1lb on the trap without danger of setting it off (this weight changes with the traps size, using the same modifier as weight)
Impact You may place a number of objects of up to 5lb on the trap without danger of setting it off (this weight changes with the traps size, using the same modifier as weight), you may use this trap as a weapon by making a ranged attack roll with a -8 to your attack roll to tether the target.


http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6375/tdust.jpg
Dust - 20GP - Trigger
Create a pressurized bladder of air and dust that pops open.
Dust blinds creatures for 1d4 rounds (Fort DC 10+1/2 Ranks in craft + Int).

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/2996/tflame.jpg
Flame - 100gp - Trigger
Create an alchemical fire trap dealing 1d6 fire damage (Reflex DC 10+1/2 Ranks in craft + Int). You may add +1d6 fire damage to this trap for each 100g you spend.

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/5791/tmine.jpg
Mine - 50gp + ? - Trigger
Mines can be set with a single alchemical item that requires an attack roll to activate (eg. Tanglefoot Bag, Holy Water). Mines attack with the item at +0 and add your ranks in craft to their attack roll.

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6271/tpierce.jpg
Piercing - 5g - Static
Fill an area with long hazardous spikes, that changes the area to have the following qualities:
Moving through this area is extremely difficult, a creature may move half speed but if a creature is bullrushed, moves full speed or tumbles they are immediately attacked by the spikes for +0 (1d4 piercing), if a creature falls onto the spikes either by jumping, falling prone or off a ledge they are attacked by the spikes for +5 for each 10' fallen (maximum +10, minimum +0) (1d4 + 1 piercing damage for each 10' fallen). Ex. a creature falling 20' onto these spikes would be attacked for +10 1d4+2 piercing damage.

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/4953/tsmoke.jpg
Smoke - 50g - Trigger
Creates a 5' cube of white smoke that obscures vision and has an effect identical to Stinking Cloud, DC 10+1/2 Ranks in craft + Int). This smoke lasts for 1 round.

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/4415/tsnare.jpg
Snare - 25g - Trigger
Attacks foe with a (+0 + ranks in craft) touch attack, if it hits the creature is entangled (DC15 strength check), the trap has 10 hit points and a hardness of 0. Until the foe is no longer entangled it cannot move out of the square.
Foes entanged in this way are also considered Tethered (See FD).

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/4998/tspike.jpg
Spike - 75g - Trigger
Spines explode out of the ground knocking foes down. These spikes attack with a +0 + your ranks in craft attack roll, if it hits it deals 1 piercing damage and they gain a caltrop wound and must make a (Fort DC 10+1/2 Ranks in craft + Int) or be knocked prone.

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/924/turchin.jpg
Urchin - 80g - Trigger
This trap explodes sending spines outwards, all creatures within a 15' spread must make a (Reflex DC 8+1/2 Ranks in craft + Int) or take 1d6 piercing damage.

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2692/tchomp.jpg
Chomp - ??g - Arcane
A Chomp is a jaw trap that's been animated into a construct, it has relevant skill ranks, BAB, Initiative and HD equal to the spell slot sacrificed to make it -2. For each size category larger you make this trap lower this bonus by -2.


Chomp Trap
Small (Construct)
Hit Dice Xd10+10 [(5*X)+10)]
Speed 5 ft. (1 square)
Initiative X(+1)
Armor Class 14; touch 12; flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple +X/+X(-4)
Attack Bite +1 Mele (1d6+0, No Crit)
Full-Attack Bite +X/+X?(-2)/+X?(-2) (1d6+0, No Crit)
Space 0 ft.; Reach 0 ft.
Special AttacksPounce, Constrict, Gaping Jaws
Special QualitiesConstruct traits, darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; also see text
Saves Fort +0 Ref +1 Will -5
Abilities Str 10, Dex 12, Con Ø, Int Ø, Wis 1, Cha 1
Skills Listen +X(-4), Spot +X(-4)
Feats Multiattack
Environment Any
Organization Solitary
Challenge Rating CR 1+1/2 Slot Bonus
Treasure None
Alignment Customized
Advancement None
Level Adjustment NA

Combat
The combat dynamics of a Chomp Trap can be customized during it's making, the user imparts a small portion of her instinct (adding the Wis1) which may indicate the nature, attitude and relationship of the construct, but not allow you to give it direct commands or control it.

Constict(Ex)
Any Chomp Trap with a chain permanently linked to a solid surface can deal 1½ x its strength bonus as bludgeoning damage with a successful grapple check against a creature up to one size larger than itself.

This link can be no longer than 10' for a small Chomp Trap and double that amount for each size category larger than that.

An object of at least Large size can make constriction attacks against multiple creatures at once, if they all are at least two sizes smaller than the object and can fit under it.

Pounce(Ex)
When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can follow with a full attack—including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability.

Gaping Jaws(Ex)
A Chomp Trap has a bite damage as if it were one size category larger than it is.



http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/583/tnet.jpg
Net - 40g - Trigger
Attacks creature with a net (touch with an attack bonus of +Int), it can be aimed to fire in a 10' line, it attacks all targets in the line but may only hit one, by default this is the closest target.
A successful hit entangles a foe as if they were entangled in a Net, and after all attack rolls are made for all purposes it is a net.

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬


This content is listed under 6.6.2 in the Flowdancer Project.

Siosilvar
2011-10-09, 09:19 PM
D&D 3.5 does not have partial actions. You're looking for "standard action".

Either way, 10 actions (so a minute - 5 rounds if they're move actions instead) or 2 full-rounds isn't really practical in most D&D encounters. I suppose they'd be useful on larger-scale, outdoor combats with a few dozen to a few hundred combatants on both sides, but at that point the D&D engine starts to break down.

Dropping two rounds of actions to get an extra "round" of actions if/when they step on the trap doesn't seem like a very good trade to me; instead of using a mine, just throw whatever you're using - your craft skill isn't going to be enough higher than your attack bonus to justify 50gp + an avoidable static trap + losing an effective round of actions. Likewise with the spikey ones - move speed loss is nice and all, but a shortbow does more damage (and again, three rounds v. two actions in three rounds).

That said, I do like the traps. Snare is missing a duration on the entanglement effect.

Hanuman
2011-10-09, 09:29 PM
D&D 3.5 does not have partial actions. You're looking for "standard action".

Either way, 10 actions (so a minute - 5 rounds if they're move actions instead) or 2 full-rounds isn't really practical in most D&D encounters. I suppose they'd be useful on larger-scale, outdoor combats with a few dozen to a few hundred combatants on both sides, but at that point the D&D engine starts to break down.

Dropping two rounds of actions to get an extra "round" of actions if/when they step on the trap doesn't seem like a very good trade to me; instead of using a mine, just throw whatever you're using - your craft skill isn't going to be enough higher than your attack bonus to justify 50gp + an avoidable static trap + losing an effective round of actions. Likewise with the spikey ones - move speed loss is nice and all, but a shortbow does just as much damage.

That said, I do like the traps. Snare is missing a duration on the entanglement effect.
Yeah, I never quite understood why the term partial action was taken out so I still use it, I take it as "standard or movement".
Because someone can use their standard, movement or both, and up to 4 people can do this at once it can take one person a maximum of 60 seconds to deploy a static trap or 4 people a minimum of 7.5 seconds to deploy it (which is pretty darn fast).

The traps are purposefully underpowered, I use a x2 modifier for the gold taken to make the effect, or about a x1.5 modifier to make a parallel effect, I realize that 1d6/100g for a 2 round setup is underpowered compared to an unseen servant dropping a bag of 1d6/50g firestones onto a square, but this is more for convenience. Let us not forget Tucker's Kobalds.

The entangled effect is infinite, but I should add a movement restriction. Fixed!

unosarta
2011-10-09, 09:53 PM
The Dust Trap is really powerful. Blinding is pretty darn good, and the Dust Trap costs 20 gp to make.

In addition, the saves are really wonky. If someone has full ranks in the skill, they are going to get really high DCs on the traps. A better system would be a (10+1/2 Ranks in Craft + Intelligence modifier) or something along those lines.

Seerow
2011-10-09, 09:59 PM
Honestly, anything at all that takes more than 1 full round action isn't worth the words you used to write it if the intent is to make it usable in combat. Seriously, players just won't use it. Your monsters who try to use it will be dead before they finish it.

Now I can see a niche use for these in situations where you know there's an encounter coming and you have a minute to set up defenses before it goes down. But as an actual combat mechanic this falls flat, and that's what you have it advertised as.

Eldest
2011-10-09, 10:22 PM
Smoke - 50g - Trigger
Creates a 5' cube of smoke, this smoke trails up to 20' away depending on wind. This smoke obscures vision and forces concentration checks within it's effected area of DC 10 + Craft ranks. This smoke lasts a number of rounds equal to your ranks in craft.
Concentration checks... for what? What goes wrong if they fail them?

Hanuman
2011-10-10, 05:11 AM
Honestly, anything at all that takes more than 1 full round action isn't worth the words you used to write it if the intent is to make it usable in combat. Seriously, players just won't use it. Your monsters who try to use it will be dead before they finish it.

Now I can see a niche use for these in situations where you know there's an encounter coming and you have a minute to set up defenses before it goes down. But as an actual combat mechanic this falls flat, and that's what you have it advertised as.
These are traps that may be used within an encounter, not necessarily in a situation where you can attack, cast spells, or otherwise better your situation. The cost of these are reasonable but not budget friendly, they do not require (or did not until the int DC was added) a class or attribute to use effectively and may be carried within a backpack readily.

The lack of combat efficiency is on purpose, and these are not meant to be used as offensive weapons as that's not really what a trap is, it's meant to be used to fortify an ambush during an encounter.


The Dust Trap is really powerful. Blinding is pretty darn good, and the Dust Trap costs 20 gp to make.

In addition, the saves are really wonky. If someone has full ranks in the skill, they are going to get really high DCs on the traps. A better system would be a (10+1/2 Ranks in Craft + Intelligence modifier) or something along those lines.
The dust trap is based off of one of the most abusable items in the game, the Dust Eggshell Grenade which for 10g has a ranged touch attack to blind a creature (1d4 rounds) with no save, and another 5' radius splash of FortDC10 or blind. I think this trap is rather conservative in both price and effect in comparison.

The int idea is much better, it fits the flavor of the traps better and makes them easier to resist (I think I didn't calculate the 15th level and DC30 is way too high.


Concentration checks... for what? What goes wrong if they fail them?
Hm, how would I word it if the smoke is distracting like rough weather?

Veklim
2011-10-10, 05:40 AM
Are you aware of the Combat Trapsmith PrC in Complete Scoundrel? They do this stuff as full round actions provoking AoO, and they're not too bad as a class choice although I've always found them a little underwhelming. If you haven't already, then you may wish to check them out. My personal choice would be to allow anyone to use these traps as they are now, but present a feat which dramatically reduces the time required. You could even syc it to progress naturally towards the Combat Trapsmith PrC (and maybe look at updating that along with this?)...

Probably could have been more subtle than that :smalltongue:

Hanuman
2011-10-10, 05:50 AM
Are you aware of the Combat Trapsmith PrC in Complete Scoundrel? They do this stuff as full round actions provoking AoO, and they're not too bad as a class choice although I've always found them a little underwhelming. If you haven't already, then you may wish to check them out. My personal choice would be to allow anyone to use these traps as they are now, but present a feat which dramatically reduces the time required. You could even syc it to progress naturally towards the Combat Trapsmith PrC (and maybe look at updating that along with this?)...

Probably could have been more subtle than that :smalltongue:
Hm, my intention was to start with this and then expand outwards, I was aware of the combat trapsmith but procrastinated finding which sourcebook he was in.
I think I'll read the class over, create some more combat traps, and create a combat trapsmith fix to allow for combat traps being an item rather than a class feature.

Thanks!

--If anyone has suggestions for traps or mechanics, or has artwork they'd like to have put in please say so!

Veklim
2011-10-12, 05:40 AM
OK then, a few half-formed and probably misguided ideas:

1:
Spell Completion Trap.
Works in much the same way as the Mine trap you listed above, except it holds a spell (up to 2nd level?) instead of an alchemical mixture. Any spell with an AoE or attack roll may be cast into the trap (but only by the trapper, it's part of the action taken to set the trap), which then completes the spell upon triggering.

2:
For the (possible) Combat Trapsmith update, Equipment Trap.
Make a melee touch attack against an enemy's weapon, wand or other equip/hold-to-use item. If successful, you make a sleight of hand check, opposed by the enemy's spot check (probably with a bonus), failure results in loss of the trap and no further effects. When the item is next drawn, held or otherwise attemptedly used, the enemy must succeed on a concentration check, DC=10+1/2 ranks in Craft + int, or lose the action they were attempting with the item (as they either fumble the item, get it caught in a snare or in some other way have the use impeded).

3:
Add an 'Alarm' DC modifier (likely a +5), available for any and all combat traps, which allows you to add an alarm sound to a trap which has been triggered.

BTW, you should probably change 'partial action' (which no longer exist!) to 'move action' in every instance. You can take a move in place of a standard action whenever you like, so it means the same thing.

Hanuman
2011-10-12, 12:51 PM
OK then, a few half-formed and probably misguided ideas:

1:
Spell Completion Trap.
Works in much the same way as the Mine trap you listed above, except it holds a spell (up to 2nd level?) instead of an alchemical mixture. Any spell with an AoE or attack roll may be cast into the trap (but only by the trapper, it's part of the action taken to set the trap), which then completes the spell upon triggering.

2:
For the (possible) Combat Trapsmith update, Equipment Trap.
Make a melee touch attack against an enemy's weapon, wand or other equip/hold-to-use item. If successful, you make a sleight of hand check, opposed by the enemy's spot check (probably with a bonus), failure results in loss of the trap and no further effects. When the item is next drawn, held or otherwise attemptedly used, the enemy must succeed on a concentration check, DC=10+1/2 ranks in Craft + int, or lose the action they were attempting with the item (as they either fumble the item, get it caught in a snare or in some other way have the use impeded).

3:
Add an 'Alarm' DC modifier (likely a +5), available for any and all combat traps, which allows you to add an alarm sound to a trap which has been triggered.

BTW, you should probably change 'partial action' (which no longer exist!) to 'move action' in every instance. You can take a move in place of a standard action whenever you like, so it means the same thing.
Right! I forgot the double move action rule! Thanks!

1R-
I do like this, perhaps there are some established rules like this for containing spells?

2R-
I REALLY don't know what you meant by this, but I'm going to assume that you uh, clog the barrel of a gun type thing? Again, really confusing on what this would actually be.

3R-
I do like this, I think that adding minor alarms should be minimal but make lots of noise setting it up, perhaps a more prevalent negative mod to move silently than to the actual functionality of the trap?
--------------------------------------

Ok, Ive decided after reading the combat trapping class feature (CS) that the best way to do this is to mix the existing combat trap mechanics into the new homebrew model, and instead of having a separate system that's balanced to be viable as a combat source separate from a class, to instead create a fix for the class to make combat traps usable outside of combat, but to have the PrC improve the traps and lower the cost significantly.

Doing this will allow all of the existing combat traps to be mixed in at a balanced effectiveness, and to allow Combat Traps that only exist in the PrC to be available to all classes as equipment

Things I want to establish are:
Traps are things that should be placed anywhere (yes anywhere, and this will be covered later in terms of flavor), the choice of trigger should be contextually up to the player, multiple traps should be able to be stacked.

If a PrC fix is the best option, I'm a BIG fan of allowing all character flavors to use my content, so I want this option to fit combat heavy characters, skillmonkeys and casters alike. Because of this I'll probably be making a core PrC with 3 different optional features to add onto it to allow characters at least partial advancement in their first classes.

--------------------------------------

Now, to create a proper fix we start by sourcing the original rule, sectioning and bolding it as appropriate.



Combat Trapping (Ex): You know how to create combat
traps to aid your allies. At 1st level, you can learn two traps
from the list in Table 2–6: Combat Traps, provided you
meet the prerequisites. At each level thereafter, you add
one additional trap to your repertoire, to a maximum of
six traps known. Whenever you attain a new level in this
class, you can choose to replace any one previously learned
trap with a new trap.

1) A combat trap is triggered by any Tiny or larger creature entering the trapped square.

2) Flying or incorporeal creatures don’t trigger combat traps.

3) You can build a combat trap only on solid ground—you can’t place it on a wall or ceiling, in the air, or floating in the water.

4) A combat trap functions only once. Once set, it lasts for 1 hour or until
triggered, whichever comes first.

5) Crafting a combat trap requires a full-round action (which provokes attacks of opportunity) and a Craft (trapmaking) check.

6) Each trap’s entry lists the required Craft check DC.

7) If the check is successful, you can place the trap in any square adjacent to your space.

8) A failed check means that the action and materials are wasted to
no effect, but you can try to set the same trap again later.

9) Some combat traps allow a saving throw, as noted in a
trap’s entry.
The save DC is 10 + your combat trapsmith level + your Int modifier.

10) Locating or disabling a combat trap requires a successful Search or Disable Device check with a DC equal to 20 + your combat trapsmith level + your Int modifier.

11) You can automatically find and disable your own combat traps.

12) Because a combat trap is built quickly and crudely, it is also possible to discern with a successful Spot check (using the same DC as given above), whether or not the observer has the trapfinding class feature.

13) All combat traps produce extraordinary effects, so dispel magic or spell resistance cannot interfere with them.

14) Unless otherwise noted, an ongoing effect from a combat trap lasts for a number of rounds equal to your combat trapsmith level.

15) Multiple effects from the same kind of combat trap don’t stack; use only the longer duration.

16) Creating combat traps requires a special kit containing raw materials and tools.
A combat trapsmith’s kit costs 100 gp, weighs 10 pounds, and provides components sufficient to create ten traps.

17) A combat trap can’t be cannibalized for raw materials, nor can its materials be retrieved if the trap isn’t triggered.

Ok, first of all the core mechanic follows "you know X amount of combat traps", this is easily changed to "you know how to improve X amount of combat traps", a fix would involve modifying the effects, cost and DC of the traps to something more comparable to a spell which generally wouldn't be allowed without a class feature as items created by spells usually cost XP in addition to large amounts of gold.

1) I think that a diminutive creature should be able to set off a combat trap, but not necessarily all the time. A simple fix for this would be to set up a custom sensitivity, the most basic option would be to leave it as is, but if we want to establish a system where traps are avoidable then perhaps something to do with size modifier should come in so even if a medium creature spots a trap they can still avoid the trigger. Think the famous "laser grid gymnastic movement" movie theme.

2) Why can flying creatures breeze through traps? There are some pretty obvious reasons, but I don't necessarily agree with them.
Now, I agree that something like ground pressure trap shouldn't be effected by the flying doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to trap flying creatures. Definitely needs a fix.

Also, no ethereal creatures? Sorry but disabling ghost busters is pretty much fail. There should be a way to mod traps for ethereal creatures.

3) I have to solidly disagree with all of these, traps should be able to be layed on walls, ceilings and in water DEPENDING on what they are. Caltrops don't make much sense on a wall unless you're climbing against them, and caltrops in water don't make much sense either, but mines for instance are famously placed in water to sink boats, so I think there should definitely be exceptions and something like a substance spraying trap should be on walls and ceilings as installing something to spray at a face at face level just makes sense.

4) I disagree with this rule (I do believe in permanent traps) but I do think some traps can and should wear out even as fast as 60 minutes, mixed chemicals or things exposed to air generally lose potency, but a venom arrow trap should last long after the venom dries off it.

5) The full round action option should definitely be in the class, but in my opinion this is super fast and should be part of a class feature in the fixed version.

6) I think some traps should just not have craft DC's, as some should not require any ranks in the skill to know what it is and know how to set... for instance a bear trap. Pry, Lay, Forget.

7) I think this is a good system... but I can see where this would have a breakdown of context-- really if you're setting a complex trap, like a string in the middle of a square you're actually inside the square, this is more of a simplification... but it seems odd if you are going down a 5' wide corridor and setting a trap above a door on the wall, you'd have to be doing it from 5' away from the wall. Seems odd.

8) If I'm taking this correctly, the materials of the trap are wasted on a failed on an unsuccessful craft, but that doesn't mean you forget how to set up the trap?

9) Ok, now we have a solid balance formula for saves, and we also have a good estimation on what effects should be allowed saves.

10) A flat 20 + ComTrap + Int, that vs. a disguise check... Honestly I like the flavor of the disguise check, what do you guys think?

11) I think anyone who notices a trap should be able to recognize where it is, especially if your ally creates it while you watch.

12) I agree with this, all combat traps should be able to be spotted or detected by someone not trained in it. Though, I don't think this should necessarily be kept fair.. like on top of a door or at the bottom of a ledge you bull rush them off of.

13) Not all traps should be purely (Ex) in the fixed class, traps infused with arcane magic should be an option for those who migrated in from caster backgrounds.

14/15) 14 gives us a solid balance factor for duration, and 15 gives us a balance factor for mechanic of improving duration. At level 1, regardless of if this is a class feature effect or an item effect, this is quite disappointing on it's own, buy because of the mechanic of 15 this is explaind. You can set multiple stacks of this item to prolong the duration for however long you want, it just multiplies all the logistics of the trap. For a 2 full round action as pre-fix homebrew this would double the duration of trap effects which is about the butterzone for satisfying results. Having a half-satisfying duration with a satisfying effect for a shortened duration is a really good fix for what homebrew I released.

16) This provides the logistics for what benefits the class should present:
1lb/trap
10g/trap

17) I really don't see why not...
A trap should be worth at least the amount of it's raw materials, so salvaging it shouldn't be an issue.

--------------------------------------

From these points we gain the following balances:


Current CTrap Class (CS):

Laying: Dynamic DC/Based on effect
Known Traps: 2 + CTrap Level
Weight- 1lb/trap
Cost- 10g/trap
Saving Throw- 10 + CTrap Level + Int
Duration- 1/CTrap Level
Spot/Disable- 20 + CTrap Level + Int


So, what about this as a proposed fix for crafting and improving existing traps usable by anyone, this also improves the class significantly.

Fixed CTrap Class:

Improving/Laying: Dynamic DC/Based on effect
Improved Traps: 2 + CTrap Level
Weight- 3/4 Original Trap
Cost- 1/5 Original Trap
Saves- 10 + CTrap + Int (Unmodified 10 + Int)
Duration- 1 + CTrap Level (This DOUBLES the duration of combat traps for a level 1 combat trapper, quite a huge buff)
Spot- Disguise + CTrap (Balanced?)
Disable- 20 + Ctrap Level + Int

In addition, 3 options th character can choose between:

Arcane Trapper:
Level 2, 3, 5 and 6 give levels to an existing arcane spellcasting class.
Spend a spell slot to infuse a trap with arcane effects for 60 minutes.

Brute Trapper:
Full BAB, trapping while under fire (trapping while raising your AC), able to throw traps as weapons into opponents squares.

Ambush Trapper:
Gain sudden strike/sneak attack as normal for a rogue.
Hide, move silently, bluff and AoO when a trap goes off.


--------------------------------------


Thoughts?

Jellyguy
2011-10-12, 10:29 PM
good ol' trap rangers

shouldn't spike trap cost more?

Veklim
2011-10-13, 11:13 AM
Arcane Trapper:
Level 2, 3, 5 and 6 give levels to an existing arcane spellcasting class.
Spend a spell slot to infuse a trap with arcane effects for 60 minutes.
Needs a maximum spell level, and should carry a spellcraft DC (approx. 15+spell level methinks) to lay the trap, in addition to any disguise check (which I think is a far better system than the one already existant btw) to hide said trap.

Brute Trapper:
Full BAB, trapping while under fire (trapping while raising your AC), able to throw traps as weapons into opponents squares.
The throwing trap thing should only be for pressure-sensitive triggers, small but important detail I reckon. If you're giving them full BAB, consider dropping the skills as a balancing factor.

Ambush Trapper:
Gain sudden strike/sneak attack as normal for a rogue.
Hide, move silently, bluff and AoO when a trap goes off.

Think about maybe adding sneak damage to certain traps (i.e. ones which do piercing damage) as long as they are unseen whilst laying it. Perhaps give a bonus to hide checks if made in the same round as a trap is triggered.

I'm really looking forward to seeing the result of all this, I've used Combat Trapsmiths in quite a few of my games, they make excellent NPC foils. One of my players used one for their cohort in my last major campaign and she was really quite awesome too. Thing is the class still kinda sucks (as I'm sure you've noticed anew with your read-through of the Combat Trapsmith) and since you've already presented a lot of viable and sensible alternatives I'm hoping that's about to change. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT:
Just had another thought dude, how about a remote trigger? In and of itself not a huge ask, but it would give the class another string to their bow and allow possible out-of-combat applications for the traps.

Hanuman
2011-10-13, 09:39 PM
Needs a maximum spell level, and should carry a spellcraft DC (approx. 15+spell level methinks) to lay the trap, in addition to any disguise check (which I think is a far better system than the one already existant btw) to hide said trap.
Well, how about having both specific traps (I've edited in a demo arcane trap to see how it looks... without polish) and spell storage traps, and have a list of spells that can be stored? That way a DM can allow or disallow different spells on an individual basis.



The throwing trap thing should only be for pressure-sensitive triggers, small but important detail I reckon. If you're giving them full BAB, consider dropping the skills as a balancing factor.
Well, I agree pressure sensitive traps would work, but what traps would not work?

Dropping the skills is a great idea for balance.



Think about maybe adding sneak damage to certain traps (i.e. ones which do piercing damage) as long as they are unseen whilst laying it. Perhaps give a bonus to hide checks if made in the same round as a trap is triggered.
Well, I think this is valid for an arcane trap and even a brute trappers trap wielding, but I can't see a stationary trap discerning vital organs unless you knew exactly what they would do (such as put a razorwire snare at neck level).



I'm really looking forward to seeing the result of all this, I've used Combat Trapsmiths in quite a few of my games, they make excellent NPC foils. One of my players used one for their cohort in my last major campaign and she was really quite awesome too. Thing is the class still kinda sucks (as I'm sure you've noticed anew with your read-through of the Combat Trapsmith) and since you've already presented a lot of viable and sensible alternatives I'm hoping that's about to change. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT:
Just had another thought dude, how about a remote trigger? In and of itself not a huge ask, but it would give the class another string to their bow and allow possible out-of-combat applications for the traps.
Brute trappers specialize in remote triggers (think ghost busters box (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRt0SG-hepU)), except this is more like a pullstring. If you're thinking larger range than a pullstring, what range are you thinking?


Theres a few traps that I am planning to set:
Foothold Trap - Now added Bear Trap
Conibear (Body Grip) Trap - Need to add, will deal bludgeoning damage and ensnare (mousetraps are examples of conibear traps, as they break the animals body and trap it's torso).
Deadfall Trap - The problem with this one is that the traps should only weight about 1lb after the trapsmith PrC, the most obvious is to make an arcane trap with the spell Deadfall, but perhaps either portable storage like a bag of holding, or using Know Architecture and Disable Device would allow for a collapse trap.
Snares - Snares are already fleshed, but I really want something a little more nasty, perhaps something more akin to Decapitating Scarf, something that breaks the neck or cuts off the head.
Cage Trap - It'd be extremely heavy to carry around a CAGE with you, but this is a staple trap that if it can work, should work. I always liked the Silence spell cast within the cage for an arcane twist. Perhaps an alchemical cage? Expensive but light materials or a growing cage would work, perhaps a living plant, one made of ice? Lots of options.
Glue Trap - The mine already allows great usage for a tanglefoot bag, I'm pretty comfortable with that. Perhaps a tanglefoot ooze as an arcane version? :smallsmile:
Pit Trap - This is probably best established with an arcane means, probably a pocket dimensional pit that can be layed on a surface, basically a portable hole pit.
Re-Usable Traps - Sure, trapping enemies with armor and intent to kill is worth the gold, but sometimes you just have to eat, the Bear Trap offers small and medium game (and even larger) that can be re-used over and over, hopefully viable enough to even be an option in core equipment (after polish)


Edit--
I've found a Footsaw Trap in Races of Faerun (it's a bear trap), and surprisingly it does pretty much the the same thing but is vastly more powerful (+8 attack, DC 25 STR or 30 ESCAPE artist which is nuts, I think with a trap THAT strong you'd need to have it opened by a crank.)
I think I may mod it slightly, because a creature such as game much not be able to free itself from this ridiculously strong trap I'm going to add a bloodloss feature similar to Dying, as this handles bleedouts quite nice IMO and I think that game should bleed out if it's frail, but if it has high con stay alive without being able to free itself. Might catch an owlbear in the morning and have to kill it. It'd be nice to see a fight where an owlbear rips off a good portion of leg flesh in a rage trying to kill players who think they're safe because it's tethered to a tree. Perhaps rip the tree out of the ground for dramatic effect.

Edit--
Rebalanced, polished and reflavored Bear trap with inspiration of Footsaw Trap and renamed it Jaw trap. The trap is still a CR2-esque but the strength check is rebalanced so it doesn't take a 20 str character to break out of one, I've then added a magnetic mod to allow you to restore it to the STR check of footsaw trap and added a price of +100/1DC to make sure a 25STR DC is in the ballpark of 550-700 (depending on the final pricebalance of the trap). The trap can be used as a weapon without a class, but the combat brute will not only remove this negative modifier, but add a bonus. Obviously the trap isn't meant to be used as a weapon, at all, but still can be.