Swachbuckler in a piraty campaign

[Kol Korran]

(after the tome of magic thread, i realized that i better make sure my Swashbuckler is up and ready...)

hey there folks! i'm planning a pirate campaign with a bit of a witch/ hag/ curse you! kind of feel. most of the magic casting classes are (mostly) sorted out, but as to the "mundane" classes, and the swashbuckler in particular-

if say... we'll compare it to the Barbarian (with UA rules), ranger, rogue, somewhat enhanced monk (and UA fighting styles addedas well)and scout... how does he stand, in matter of power, versatility and so on?

it looks somewhat weak to me, is there a fix anywhere?

i want this class not to overly stand out, but be the "prime choice" for pirates, the staple one.

your thoughts, comments and suggestions?

thanks in advance,
Kol

[Anarchy_Kanya]

He's tier 5. I don't know if it's good enough for ya. Probably not if you're comparing it to tier 4s. What I would do is to gestalt Swashbucler with Fighter. Swashbuckler shouldn't be a separate class. It's a Fighter, but more specialized. This homebrewed/houseruled Fighter//Swashbuckler should be very high tier 5, if not tier 4.
Oh, what the heck, throw the Samurai in there for good measure! :smalltongue: But houserule away the lawfulness requirement first, obviously.

[FlyingScanian]

Or make it a prestige class one can pick up after 3 levels of rogue (perhaps adding a small feat tax), incorporating Daring Outlaw (Complete Scoundrel), and perhaps adding a few additional skills, into it by default?

You get the rogue's sneak attack (very fitting for a pirate), but with a more fighting feel, what with d10 HD and 1BAB/level

You mean to tell me that one can play a Swashbuckler without Daring Outlaw?

[Kol Korran]

how about... if i add up the swashbuckler to the rogue? joins them up together, sort of "daring outlaw" from the get go?

but not just sneak attack and grace, but also special rogue abilities and more?

[Anarchy_Kanya]

Rogue is fine as it is, really, he doesn't need any more power. Just gestalt Swashbuckler with Fighter and Samurai, you will strike three birds with one stone.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Either give him bonus Fighter feats or bonus Sneak Attack dice with additional Bluffing boosting for him to be able to compete properly.

Ahh, how about this:

"At 4th level, the Swashbuckler chooses a style: Corsair or Scallywag.

At 4th, 6th, 9th, 12th, 16th, and 18th level, they gain the following:

Corsair: At each indicated level, they receive a bonus feat from the Fighter Bonus Feat list. In addition, he is considered to be a Fighter two levels lower than his actual level for purposes of meeting prerequisites for feats requiring levels in Fighter.

Scallywag: At each indicated level, they gain a +1d6 Sneak Attack. In addition, they are able to bypass Improved Uncanny Dodge as though they were a rogue of the same level, and both Rogue and Swashbuckler levels stack for this calculation.

In addition, change the following:

Improved Flanking -

Corsair: In addition to the bonuses listed, all allies adjacent to any opponent which the Corsair is adjacent to is considered to be flanking that opponent, and he shares his bonus with them.

Scallywag: In addition to the bonuses listed, he gains Improved Feint. If he already has, or later gains the feat Improved Feint, then he is able to feint as a Swift action.

Weakening Critical -

Corsair: He also deals 2 Con damage from bleeding. Opponents which do not bleed is immune to this effect.

Scallywag: This effect is also applied whenever the Scallywag successfully deals sneak attack damage to his opponent.

Wounding Critical -

Corsair: This Con damage stacks with Weakening Critical. In addition, the target is slowed for a round from his grievous wound. Creatures immune to precision-based damage are immune to this effect.

Scallywag: This effect is also applied whenever the Scallywag successfully deals sneak attack damage to his opponent.

[Talya]

how about... if i add up the swashbuckler to the rogue? joins them up together, sort of "daring outlaw" from the get go?

but not just sneak attack and grace, but also special rogue abilities and more?


The daring outlaw feat by itself be makin' swashbuckler/rogue appealling. It be a fun combo, no matter which class ye focus on (but ye probably should focus on one or the other, savvy?)


Still doesn't be gettin' past tier 4, and probably on the low end of that, but it sure be fun. Really depends on the power level of yer campaign. (And what ye be fighting...insightful strike and sneak attack both be precision damage. A ship full o' undead pirates cursed by aztec gold and ye'll sucking down seawater at the bottom o' davy jones locker pretty fast.)

[Kol Korran]

ok, this post may verge on homebrewing, but here goes. I'm thinking of mixing the Rogue and swash buckler together, to form a single class. the rogue on it's own fairs poorly unless heavily using magic items and UMD. (mostly due to feat starvation, BAB and inability to SA many creatures. and the Swashbuckler is just... bad.

so what do you think of the following:

---------------------------------------------------------
Swashbuckler/ Rogue/ "Scoundrel"
probably the most iconic of pirate genre. All alignments (though often chaotic), all colors. They are as common to the islanders as fighters are to the Empire. This class joins features of both the Swashbuckler and Rogue classes (both weak classes on their own) to form the "Scoundrel". Scoundrels are the most common, and amongst the most versatile people in the islands, composing the main pirating population (after NPC classes)

Options and rules:
- This "combined class" is a test. It might be remedied as we play. The class assumes progression of both classes except as mentioned here:
- Weapons and armor: simple and martial melee weapons, ranged: simple, hand cross bow and short bow. Armor: light armor, buckler.
- HD: 1d8 per level
- Skill points: 6/ level (we use combined skill lists, so this should be more than enough)
- Saves: fort and reflex are good.
- BAB: as fighter (+1/ level)
- The Scoundrel must choose at first level to go with either Sneak Attack, or Skirmish (as the scout mechanic, +d6s if you move 10 ft or more)
- The dodge bonus is applied to ALL enemies.
- No trap sense
- At 4th level you can choose delaying uncanny dodge (from rogue) to 8th level (and never improved uncanny dodge, for one of the following advantages: either "Disruptive strike" (if you hit, you don't deal sneak/ skirmish damage, but reduce it's AC by -1 per SA/ skirmish dice. OR you can learn to "hit the unhitable"- your sneak/ skirmish attack affects undead, constructs and elementals (not oozes), causing half damage.
- At 8th level, if you already delayed uncanny dodge, you can give it up altogether for the second advantage you didn't take at 4th level.
- Scoundrel tricks: (basically what ShneekeyTheLost suggested:
Improved Flanking – you can choose one of these two options

In addition to the bonuses listed, all allies adjacent to any opponent which the Corsair is adjacent to is considered to be flanking that opponent, and he shares his bonus with them.

In addition to the bonuses listed, he gains Improved Feint. If he already has, or later gains the feat Improved Feint, then he is able to feint as a Swift action.

Weakening Critical - you can choose one of these two options

: He also deals 2 Con damage from bleeding. Opponents which do not bleed is immune to this effect.

This effect is also applied whenever the Scoundrel successfully deals sneak attack damage to his opponent.

Wounding Critical - you can choose one of these two options

This Con damage stacks with Weakening Critical. In addition, the target is slowed for a round from his grievous wound. Creatures immune to precision-based damage are immune to this effect.

This effect is also applied whenever the Scoundrel successfully deals sneak attack damage to his opponent.

- Friend's evasion: another rogue special ability, giving adjacent allies evasion as well (up to two characters at once)
- Common Mixed Blessings: Vices are the most common, but also curses and superstitions. Codes are rare amongst scoundrels.
-------------------------------------------------------

how does it compare to ranger (wiht quite a few possibilities from splat books, and barbarian? too strong? still too weak? any big problems? i suck at this kind of stuff...

[Anarchy_Kanya]

Um... You do realize that Rogue is already tier 4 (so on par with Ranger) and with Swashbuckler/Scoundrel he probably will be boosted to tier 3?

[Sith_Happens]

Jiriku whipped up a hybrid Rogue/Swashbuckler class called, appropriately, the the Daring Outlaw (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188150). It's pretty much the end-all-be-all class for any pirate, smuggler, etc.-type character.

[Kol Korran]

Jiriku whipped up a hybrid Rogue/Swashbuckler class called, appropriately, the the Daring Outlaw (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188150). It's pretty much the end-all-be-all class for any pirate, smuggler, etc.-type character.

Now THAT is why i ask the playground's help! thanks Sith_Happens, this is Exaclty what i'm looking for! (much much better than mine...) :smalltongue:

[drakir_nosslin]

how about... if i add up the swashbuckler to the rogue? joins them up together, sort of "daring outlaw" from the get go?

but not just sneak attack and grace, but also special rogue abilities and more?

You're welcome (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188150) :smallwink:

Agh, ninjas! Everywhere!

[JackRackham]

(after the tome of magic thread, i realized that i better make sure my Swashbuckler is up and ready...)

hey there folks! i'm planning a pirate campaign with a bit of a witch/ hag/ curse you! kind of feel. most of the magic casting classes are (mostly) sorted out, but as to the "mundane" classes, and the swashbuckler in particular-

if say... we'll compare it to the Barbarian (with UA rules), ranger, rogue, somewhat enhanced monk (and UA fighting styles addedas well)and scout... how does he stand, in matter of power, versatility and so on?

it looks somewhat weak to me, is there a fix anywhere?

i want this class not to overly stand out, but be the "prime choice" for pirates, the staple one.

your thoughts, comments and suggestions?

thanks in advance,
Kol
The simplest solution is to multiclass with rogue and take the 'daring warrior' feat. Basically you'd end up with an almost-full swashbuckler with full sneak attack progression....a pretty good damage dealer, potentially. Make a high-INT character, dual wield, and throw in pounce (from a barbarian level?) and we're talking a lot of d6+3-4. Also, take the skill trick that let's you bend a charge and the one that makes people flat-footed when you tumble through their square. Basically, scheme to do full-attack sneak attacks as much as humanly possible :)


EDIT: Actually, if you're looking to combine the two, you could use the swash as a base, add sneak attack every 2-3 levels, give it 6-8 skill points and MOST IMPORTANTLY, give it improved feint and corsair's feint after 5 or 8 levels.