Aid with Wizard Build/Prestige Class

[Eccentric Elf]

Hello,

Recently one of our players has tried himself as a DM, he isn't too experienced, so he wanted us to make low-lvl characters. Lvl 5 characters to be spesific. I don't have a lot of D&D experience myself. I've always played an elf sorcerer (I like elves, derp), but this time I thought I would try playing a wizard. And thus I must learn to use the more complicated system of preparing selec spell each day, which I am (as stated above) not used to.

Which brings me to my problem. I have little knowledge about how to make a decent wizard, which spells to prepare each day and what prestige class (if anything) I should build my character towards. I'm planning to make a somewhat versatile Crowd Controller.

I do have a draft though, of a wizard build.

Chaotic Good Gray Elf
Wizard(Enchanter) lvl 5
Barred Schools: Necromancy, Illusion
Stats:
Strength - 10
Dexterity - 18
Constitution - 13
Intelligence - 21
Wisdom - 13
Charisma - 14

Feats:
Spellcasting Prodigy(Int)
Spellfocus: Enchantment
Extend Spell

Our DM hasn't been very spesific about the amount of gold our characters will have to begin with. Only that I was allowed to start with a 'Headband of Intellect +4'

I was thinking of building the character so I could take lvls in Archmage early on (lvl 14 being the earliest I think), but I'm unsure of which High Arcana's to choose. Arcane Fire for instance seems a bit costly.

I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Edit: Oh god, my English is apparently worse than I thought.

[Golden Ladybug]

I know that feel; Sorcerer has always been my Arcane Caster of choice (after I was banned from playing Bards :smallwink:), and playing Wizard is an entirely different beast. I think of it like this; a Wizard is like a fine set of lockpicks, each designed for a specific purpose. You select the perfect tool for the job, and soon enough you'll get the lock on that particular door open. It might not work so well on a different door, but it is tailor made for opening this one.

A Sorcerer is like a Hammer. It'll open most doors fine, and do other stuff besides (mostly by hitting things). It lacks the finesse of the lockpicks, but it gets the job done. By hitting it very hard.

Now, back to the topic at hand...

Archmage is great fun, but Arcane Fire is absolute balls. Entirely overpriced, and worth next to nothing to the (Batman or not) Wizard. Blasting things with ridiculous amounts of power is the Sorcerer's job! The best High Arcana's to take are probably Mastery of Shaping, Arcane Reach and possibly the SLA one (Used primarily to make things like Time Stop always accessible to you).

Now, the best and easiest way of entering Archmage in my experience is to take ranks in Master Specialist; its requirements are very easy to fulfill, and you get some minor benefits for taking a few levels in it (really good benefits for a Conjurer, as well). It also gives you some of the requirements to get into Archamge.

To counteract the high costs of using the High Arcana, you may want to look into the Focused Specialist ACF from Complete Mage. It allows you to ban a third school, and drop a generalist spell slot in exchange for two more spell slots in your chosen school. This amounts to three extra Spell Slots to fill with...Enchantment? Alright, thats fine. Anyway, using those extra spell slots, you can pay the cost of the High Arcanas and get those tasty, tasty class features (one gem you'll get for Arcane Reach is feebleminding someone from 30' away, which is brilliant).

Another thing you might want to look into is Mage of the Arcane Order. A brilliant class to take in any circumstance, really, MotAO gives you another use of your extra Enchantment slots (I don't think there are enough useful Enchantment spells that you'd want to prepare everyday), by turning letting you turn them into Spellpool "slots", which gives you a ridiculous amount of versatility. Just prepare something you won't use in them, and sack them to use the Spellpool for your utility.

Its like becoming a less blasty Sorcerer with infinitely more spells known!

Anyway, how about this?

Wizard 5/Master Specialist 4/MotAO 2/Archmage 4/MotAO+5

Prereq Feats: Spell Focus (Enchantment)
Spell Focus (Other) - Take it at levels 6, 9 or 12
Skill Focus (Spellcraft) - Given to you by Master Specialist
Co-operative Spell - Take it at level 6 or level 9; don't worry, you get a free Metamagic Feat from MotAO anyway, so its not like you're losing anything.

You'll definitely want Mastering of Shaping and Arcane Reach, but Mastery of Elements, Spell-Like Ability, Mastery of Counterspelling (if you swing that way. No, I'm not implying anything about those who like to counterspell, not at all, whatever gave you that idea :smallbiggrin:) and even Spell Power isn't that bad. Arcane Fire is a bad man who lures children to his windowless van.

The Minor School Esoterica for Enchantment is quite powerful, quite powerful indeed. Almost makes me want to play an Enchanter, in fact. You also get access to all three Spell Pools, which means you have quite a sizeable amount of Spell Slots which you can fill with anything you want. So yeah.

Have fun, and I wish you luck.

[Elfinor]

If you're planning on going Archmage, I would suggest taking Master Specialist from Complete Mage for your 4th and 5th levels. It gives a full casting progression, is easy to qualify for (You'll need max ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft and keep that Spell Focus feat) and gives you a bunch of well themed special abilities, including Spell Focus (Spellcraft) as a bonus feat. So long as you're paying some attention to your spell selection and grab Spell Focus in another school you'll come out of the class ready to go straight into Archmage - which is 14th level entry.

That said, enchanters can run into some problems depending on Monster type. Ask your DM what the theme of the campaign would be - if it's heavy on undead, for example, enchantment may not necessarily be the best choice for a specialised school - though I guess in the end you are an elven wizard with good pointbuy (or good rolls?) so you'll probably do well regardless.

You may also want to consider the Elf Wizard substitution levels (specifically, the first one) in the Races of the Wild book - you can't specialise (making the rest of my post hot air) but you're effectively a generalist wizard with an extra floating spell slot of your highest spell level and you add an extra spell to your spellbook at every level. It also fits well with the 'versatile' part of your theme.

I'm not very experienced with the High Arcana personally, but I'm sure someone else can help out with your choices there.

If you have any questions about my post (or otherwise) feel free to ask - always happy to help out another Elf :smalltongue:

EDIT: Semi-Ninja'd - I'm pleased to see Golden Ladybug tackled the Archmage's High Arcana. Are all WotC splatbooks allowed?

[Eccentric Elf]

Thanks for the replies!
Great suggestions! I needed to take some time to read and research what you both suggested.

Master Specialist and Mage of the Arcane Order both seems like excellent Prestige Classes. Master Specialist more so. I'd only heard about Loremaster and Archmage...
Other questions;
- Should I expect many problems from barring necromancy and illusion? (I expect we're going to have a divine caster in the party...)
- Explosive Runes; can you put more than just the one on an object? (I didn't see any restrictions while reading the spell description)

@Golden Ladybug:
The build you suggested implies I keep my five levels of wizard, then start putting levels in the various Prestige Classes, yes? Wouldn't be more efficient taking a level in Master Specialist after my third level in wizard as Elfinor suggested? In that case, should I drop the Extend Spell feat?
Focused Specialist seems a bit expensive. I thought barring two schools was tolerable, but a third...

@Elfinor:
Well, we don't have any official limitations on what literature we can use. I'd guess anything official like 'Complete Mage' would be ok. Knowing the DM, he would probably keep a very varied array of monsters, so enchantment shouldn't really be a problem. I've some reservations to choosing other specialisations. An Evoker would seem to much like a sorcerer to me. And I have no wish to play a necromancer or something of the kind.
Also a generalist wizard seems rather dull, and now I find I like the thought of playing a master specialist.

edit: again with the spelling :smalltongue:

[zimmerwald1915]

Other questions;
- Should I expect many problems from barring necromancy and illusion? (I expect we're going to have a divine caster in the party...)
Losing Necromancy shouldn't be too big a problem. It's got some very potent spells, but it's got fewer spells than most other schools. In addition, some of its effects, though not the ones that bestow negative levels, can be replacated with Transmutation or Conjuration spells. Illusion could be more of a problem, since a lot of your defensive spells will be illusions (invisibility, prismatic x, etc). If you're expecting a divine caster, you may be able to get away with banning Abjuration and Necromancy. If you're going Focused Specialist and are expecting a divine caster you may be able to get away wtih banning Evocation, Abjuration, and Necromancy.


- Explosive Runes; can you put more than just the one on an object? (I didn't see any restrictions while reading the spell description)
As far as I can tell, you can stack Explosive Runes. But it takes multiple castings.


@Golden Ladybug:
The build you suggested implies I keep my five levels of wizard, then start putting levels in the various Prestige Classes, yes? Wouldn't be more efficient taking a level in Master Specialist after my third level in wizard as Elfinor suggested? In that case, should I drop the Extend Spell feat?
Focused Specialist seems a bit expensive. I thought barring two schools was tolerable, but a third...
Going Wiz5 gives you the fifth level bonus feat, or options to trade out that bonus feat for various ACFs. Master Specialist becomes available to Wizards at level 4, but if you want the extra feat, or whatever you're trading it out for, it can be worth it to delay.


@Elfinor:
Well, we don't have any official limitations on what litterature we can use. I'd guess anything official like 'Complete Mage' would be ok. Knowing the DM, he would probably keep a very varied array of monsters, so enchantment shouldn't really be a problem. I've some reservations to choosing other specialisations. An Evoker would seem to much like a sorcerer to me. And I have no wish to play a necromancer or something of the kind.
Also a generalist wizard seems rather dull, and now I find I like the thought of playing a master specialist.
There's two directions you can go with a master specialist. There's the "I specialize in this school above all else" route, in which you go Focused Specialist Wizard, then Master Specialist for 7-10 levels (since you're an Enchanter you might want to dip one level in Mindbender if you're non-Good), then Archmage. Then there's the "I specialize in this school, gaining the benefits thereof, but I ignore all the limitations associated with that choice" route, which involves Wizard 5/Master Specialist 3/Mage of the Arcane Order 7/Archmage 5 to give you full access to the spellpool plus a lot of good specialist stuff.

[Eccentric Elf]

Thanks Zimm!
I suppose that answered all my questions.

[Andion Isurand]

If its allowed
I would take the Arctic template from Dragon Magazine 306 for +2 Con -2 Cha.

10 str
18 dex
15 con
21 int
13 wis
12 cha
as far as first level only feats go
it's worth looking at Keen Intellect from Dragon Magazine 318

Basically, it says you may use your Intelligence modifier instead of your Wisdom modifier when making Heal, Sense Motive, Spot, or Survival checks. You may also use your Intelligence modifier instead of Wisdom when making a Will saving throw.
as far as ACFs go
I very much like the combat wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) variant where scribe scroll and the bonus wizard feats are exchanged for bonus fighter feats

Martial Study [Desert Wind Manuver], Improved Initiative or Improved Toughness make good choices (unless you need a prerequisite) in place of Scribe Scroll, as the first grants you Tumble as a perma class skill
I also like the 3rd elven wizard substitution level, where one trades the ability to deliver touch spells with their familiar, in order to double the bonus grants by the familiar when its within 5 ft

Commonly stated for this feature is the hummingbird familiar (Dragon 323 page 98) which grants +4 to imitative checks (+8 with the substitution level)

[MesiDoomstalker]

Prismatic X spells are Abjuration or Evocation or Conjuration for at least one spell. I don't know of any Prismatic spell that is Illusion.

EDIT: Illusion is a school that Divine pretty much fails at. I can't think of a single divine spell that is Illusion but I know there is at least a few but doubtfully will ever come to Wizards Ilusoury prowess.

[zimmerwald1915]

Prismatic X spells are Abjuration or Evocation or Conjuration for at least one spell. I don't know of any Prismatic spell that is Illusion.
Herp. My mistake. I wonder what I could have been thinking of? :smallsigh:

[MesiDoomstalker]

Herp. My mistake. I wonder what I could have been thinking of? :smallsigh:

They all make pretty colors and make people go all "oooo! ahhh!....AHHHHH MY EYES! Dear Pelor my eyes!"

[Flickerdart]

Commonly stated for this feature is the hummingbird familiar (Dragon 323 page 98) which grants +4 to imitative checks (+8 with the substitution level)
Initiative. :smalltongue: Don't confuse the new guy.

[Eccentric Elf]

It seems what I'll miss from barring Illusion is mainly spells like Blur, Invisibility (Of several kinds), psuedo-spells and cc-spells.
Considering that I am specialised in Enchantment, another set of "weaker" crowd controll spells seems rather redundant.
I would also think abjuration's protective spells, such as 'shield' would serve the purpouse of Blur-like spells. In addition to abjuration having a lot of practical spells.
I'm also considering the DM, as illusion is notorious for being annoying to manage (at least afaik).


I also like the 3rd elven wizard substitution level, where one trades the ability to deliver touch spells with their familiar, in order to double the bonus grants by the familiar when its within 5 ft

If I'm going to take levels in Master Specialist, I wouldn't be able to take the 3rd elven wizard substitution lvl, would I?

edit: spelling...

[MesiDoomstalker]

If I'm going to take levels in Master Specialist, I wouldn't be able to take the 3rd elven wizard substitution lvl, would I?

edit: spelling...

Even without Master Specialist, you couldn't take Elven Wizard sub levels as they only work for generalists. Of course you could be a generalist but then you couldn't take Master Specialist.

[Dictum Mortuum]

Shameless plug (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/09/wizards-handbook-part-one-attributes.html).

[Elfinor]

Even without Master Specialist, you couldn't take Elven Wizard sub levels as they only work for generalists. Of course you could be a generalist but then you couldn't take Master Specialist.

Actually, you can pick and choose substitution levels - so you don't necessarily need to be a generalist.


Shameless plug (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/09/wizards-handbook-part-one-attributes.html).

I do generally agree with his handbooks for in-depth, hardcore, pure optimising. Be warned, it's a lot of reading though and I've found the handbooks can get quite cheesy. I suspect Dictum Mortuum's handbooks have caused more than one DM rage stroke.

Additionally, it should probably be noted that he doesn't include Dragon Magazine as a source - a significant number of DM's ban/restrict it, although it is technically 'official'.

Edit: Double letters tripped me up. Also, grammar.

[Golden Ladybug]

Thanks for the replies!
Great suggestions! I needed to take some time to read and research what you both suggested.

Master Specialist and Mage of the Arcane Order both seems like excellent Prestige Classes. Master Specialist more so. I'd only heard about Loremaster and Archmage...
Other questions;
- Should I expect many problems from barring necromancy and illusion? (I expect we're going to have a divine caster in the party...)
- Explosive Runes; can you put more than just the one on an object? (I didn't see any restrictions while reading the spell description)

@Golden Ladybug:
The build you suggested implies I keep my five levels of wizard, then start putting levels in the various Prestige Classes, yes? Wouldn't be more efficient taking a level in Master Specialist after my third level in wizard as Elfinor suggested? In that case, should I drop the Extend Spell feat?
Focused Specialist seems a bit expensive. I thought barring two schools was tolerable, but a third...

Not a problem, always happy to help out.

In regards to your banned schools, I expect you'll have no problems. I almost always ban Necromancy, and I have no problems losing out on it; a reasonable opinion would be that Ennervation is the Magnum Opus of the school, being the most utilised Necromancy spell outside of Raise Dead and the like for characters that focus on doing just that. If you're happy to lose Ennervation, banning Necromancy shouldn't be a problem.

Focused Specialist is a good option, but only if you can keep the versatility as a Wizard from it. Banning Evocation is the go to answer, but I quite like the School; it has a few gems amongst the blasty stuff (besides, you never know when you need to roll a fistful of d6s), and people will never stop singing the praises of Contingency. Thankfully, Access to the Spellpool doesn't take into account which schools you ban (to the best of my knowledge; please correct me if I'm wrong here). Still, Focused Specialist isn't the way to go for everyone, and Enchantment probably isn't the school to go with. Its more of a Conjuration or Transmutation thing, since they have so many viable spells at every level.

It is possible to take the Elven Wizard substitution level at 3rd, even if you didn't take Generalist Wizard. Unless it specifically mentions that you need the previous levels, you're probably fine to take it. I'm fairly certain there aren't any Racial Substitutions that require you to take all the levels...

Technically, its possible to get into Master Specialist at level 2, but I don't recomend it. Taking 5 levels of Wizard is generally a good call, for either a free feat or the ACFs (Spontaneous Divination and Domain Granted Power are both pure gold), and it also buffers you from the projectile DMGs that all Wizard players must eventually face.

Also, like Elfinor, I'll caution against using some of the suggestions in Dictum Mortuum's guides; They're brilliant, and an absolute gold standard for Wizard building (at least in that particular path of Wizard Building), but some of the suggestions are things you'll want to stay clear of for the sake of being on good terms with your DM.

Oh, the perils of being a Wizard :smallbiggrin:

[Dictum Mortuum]

I don't want to derail the thread, but I do got to comment on this. First of all thanks for the comments, I almost blush every time someone uses adjectives like 'brilliant'. However, I'm a big supporter of practical optimization (i.e. being powerful, but not dirty stuff powerful) and I try to pass this to my guides. Of course 'powerful' is relative, so I completely understand :P

[Eccentric Elf]

It is possible to take the Elven Wizard substitution level at 3rd, even if you didn't take Generalist Wizard. Unless it specifically mentions that you need the previous levels, you're probably fine to take it. I'm fairly certain there aren't any Racial Substitutions that require you to take all the levels...

Right, +8 initiative modifier (doubling the hummingbird modifier) does seem rather good. With my natural +4 dexterity modifier it'll add up to +12 as my initiative modifier (hardcore math skills at work here...). Although I'm concerned about losing 'shared spells'. I never did use it, though. Not even with my sorcerer's improved familiar (which I never did much use in general...). Is "share spells" really that useful anyway? I was kind of planning on taking a raven as my familiar. But according to Dictum Mortuum's guide, hawk is a better familiar (at least for using the share spells ability).

And I'm worried with using something that isn't in a hardback resource-book. My DM can get rather snippy about not using official rules. Although I suppose if it's easily accessible on the net, it shouldn't really be much of a problem. In addition to it being a semi-official rule.

Golden Ladybug mentioned barring Necromancy as trivial, how about illusion? As mentioned earlier, my thoughts concering illusion was that it didn't really seem neccassery if I'm already using an improved crowd controlling spellschool (it being specialised and improved due to taking levels in master specialist... eventually).

edit: spelling.

[MesiDoomstalker]

On Illusion here are the things to consider:


Your creativity on the fly
how many "OH CRUD!" spells you would like to have access to
If you like miss chances


The first point is for the Image line of spells which can be extremly helpful if you can be creative on the fly. If your like me and have the creative capacity of a lemming, your not missing out on too much. I tend to use the same illusions, like our affable bard Elan, with little variation. If you see your self doing that, your not missing out on the Image line

The second point is for Invisibilty and its successors. Very useful for "OH CRUD!" moments. Until you start seeing a bunch of enemies with See Invis/True Seeing active constant then you'd wish you had a change of underwear. Illusion is not your only access to "OH CRUD!" spells but it has them. This mixes with the Image line as well as a good, creative Image can do just as well as Invisibility.

The 3rd point is for things like Mirror Image and its Greater version. Excellent buffs. If you think your other defenses are up to shore and you won't be targeted much in the first place, then you won't miss out here either.

So, it all boils down to if you think those points are enough to not ban or not. Others are welcome to point out holes in what I presented.

[Dictum Mortuum]

Don't be a specialist enchanter if you've got little experience with wizards. The enchantment school features spells that are similar in one way: they're all mind affecting. Also, most of the times I end up with very few enchantment spells memorized (or even known).

Say no to your inner need for fireball and ban evocation.

[Eccentric Elf]

Don't be a specialist enchanter if you've got little experience with wizards. The enchantment school features spells that are similar in one way: they're all mind affecting. Also, most of the times I end up with very few enchantment spells memorized (or even known).

Say no to your inner need for fireball and ban evocation.

I'm actually quite set on having enchantment as my speciality. My previous character, a sorcerer, had quite a few enchantments I found useful. And it's in line with the style I prefer.
As to banning evocation, evocation is the primary damage dealing school. But you're saying it could be replaced with conjuration and transmutation (disintegrate?).
According to the standard issue list of spells, there's not more than one damaging spell in the conjuration school per spell level. But maybe the Player's Handbook 2 and Complete Mage gives additional spells that might fill my need?

[MesiDoomstalker]

I'm actually quite set on having enchantment as my speciality. My previous character, a sorcerer, had quite a few enchantments I found useful. And it's in line with the style I prefer.
As to banning evocation, evocation is the primary damage dealing school. But you're saying it could be replaced with conjuration and transmutation (disintegrate?).
According to the standard issue list of spells, there's not more than one damaging spell in the conjuration school per spell level. But maybe the Player's Handbook 2 and Complete Mage gives additional spells that might fill my need?

Who cares if you can drop enemies into the negatives. Turn them into stone and chop off their head with a adamentine dagger. Save or die/suck spells are better, almost universally, than dealing fistfuls of d6s.

[Eccentric Elf]

Who cares if you can drop enemies into the negatives. Turn them into stone and chop off their head with a adamentine dagger. Save or die/suck spells are better, almost universally, than dealing fistfuls of d6s.

Right, any suggestions to what spells I should memorize? This would be so much easier if I had access to the expanded spell list, but I'm guessing that's not free content (making it impossible to find online).

[MesiDoomstalker]

Right, any suggestions to what spells I should memorize? This would be so much easier if I had access to the expanded spell list, but I'm guessing that's not free content (making it impossible to find online).

The suggestion I made is Flesh to Stone, which is core. Disintegrate, while still blasty, does considerable damage and is useful against objects too. Slow is an amazing save or suck. Limit them to one action per round? YES PLEASE! If we knew what books you had access to, we can point out the gems.

[Dictum Mortuum]

Right, any suggestions to what spells I should memorize? This would be so much easier if I had access to the expanded spell list, but I'm guessing that's not free content (making it impossible to find online).

No need more than Player's Handbook, which already has a huge amount of useful spells.

The most damaging school is conjuration because Summon Monster x. You don't have to do damage yourself - let that to your party - just make sure you disable enemies (Slow, Evard's Black Tentacles, Solid Fog) and buff allies and summons (Haste, Polymorph, Bull's Strength and the rest). You can be deadly if you're alone (e.g. Black Tentacles and/or Solid Fog + Cloudkill is NASTY).

[Eccentric Elf]

The suggestion I made is Flesh to Stone, which is core. Disintegrate, while still blasty, does considerable damage and is useful against objects too. Slow is an amazing save or suck. Limit them to one action per round? YES PLEASE! If we knew what books you had access to, we can point out the gems.

I have access to core, and players handbook 2. And whatever that's free content and accessible online.

[Golden Ladybug]

For Core, the pick of the crop, that you have access to with Necromancy and Illusion banned, is:

1st: Abjuration: Protection from Alignment: The AC bonuses and the all are nice, but the real mileage of these spells comes from making you immune to charm and compulsion effects.
Shield: +4 to your AC, and it blocks Magic Missile. Brilliant Spell

Conjuration: Grease: One of the best spells for its level in the game; makes enemies flat-footed, gives you bonus to Escape Artist and Grapple checks, makes people drop their weapons... you can do all sorts of things with Grease
Mage Armor: +4 to AC, with an Hours/Level duration. Stacks with Shield too
Mount: Horsie! Also, you can sell it to an unaware passerby on your way out of town. Be sure to be out of there before the duration expires :smallwink:
Summon Monster I: Send Monkeys to their death so you don't trigger traps.
Unseen Servant: Practically Telekinesis

Divination: Comprehend Languages: You'll often find a book in some crazy language, or meet up with a rambling Giant or something. This is the spell for those times
Indentify: Okay, this might be a useful spell, but it costs a decent amount to cast. Either get your party to chip in to cast it, or sell Mounts often. There is an Item in the MiC that completely outshines it, but you don't have access to it, so this is the next best thing

Enchantment: Charm Person: Why, hello there, handsome
Sleep: An encounter ending spell up until about level 5...so yeah, skip this one

Evocation: Magic Missile: Useful against certain enemies, because it is one of the very few Force spells you can get in core, but its a bit weak at doing everything else
Floating Disk: Oh, what fun you can have with Tenser's Floating Disk. Use it to carry stuff...like the bodies of the other players, or Phat l00tz

Transmutation: Enlarge Person: Make you're BSF Bigger and Stronger!
Feather Fall: You never know when this'll come up, but its good to have

Level 2: Abjuration: Resist Energy: Good buff, means you don't burn as quickly
Protection from Arrows: Brilliant Buff, means you don't get shot full of holes by enemy Archers

Conjuration: Glitterdust: Absolutely amazing. Blinds People and outlines Invisible Enemies. And gives things -40 to hide, which comes up occasionally
Web: A brilliant don't-save-just-suck spell. You cast it and they can only move at half speed, if they can move at all. Needs two Anchor points though

Divination: Detect Thoughts: Its the cheap man's telepathy, and its still great.
See Invisibility: The thing about invisible attackers is that the rest of your team is unlikely to notice them creeping up to stab you in the back. Be ever vigilant

Enchantment: Hideous Laughter: A Save-or-Die, almost. If they don't make their save, they're out of the fight though, for your teammates to dispose of at their leisure

Evocation: Scorching Ray: Quite Decent for a Blast, because it deals quite good damage for its level and can target multiple enemies. Many people say its a redeeming factor of Evocation, in the same way that Wall of Force, Defrenstrating Sphere and Force Cage are.
Shatter: Blow up an enemies equipment. Laugh.

Transmutation: Alter Self: Crazy Good. If you want to know more, google...oh, "Polymorph Cheese" or something of that nature. Maybe "good Alter Self forms". You'll understand quite quickly.
[Animal's] [Attribute]: For their level, these are quite powerful, but the parties equipment will eventually outshine them.
Levitate: The first thing that'll get you into the air, and therefore, out of danger
Rope Trick: Its like you don't even need to keep watch anymore, when you can take them to the ROPE DIMENSION!!!

Level 3: Abjuration: Dispel Magic: Self-Explanatory
Explosive Runes: Step 1: Fill a book with nothing but Explosive Runes
Step 2: Get Captured
Step 3: Bad guy comes to taunt you that he's got your spellbook
Step 4: Tell him not to read it; that knowledge is too powerful for one so small minded as he
Step 5: ???
Step 6: Profit

Conjuration: Phantom Steed: This horse outruns cars, and will eventually be able to fly. One of the best level 3 spells in the game
Sleet Storm: Battlefield Control at its finest; slows people down, knocks them over and makes it so they can't see
Stinking Cloud: Takes enemy Casters out of the fight, and debuffs anyone with a bad Fort save
Summon Monster III: Summon Apes and Bison to beat up your enemies for you

Divination: All the spells at this level are good ones; take them all and learn to love them. Or better yet, take the Spontaneous Divination ACF :smallwink:

Enchantment: Deep Slumber: A buffed version of Sleep
Heroism: Makes your friends more HEROIC!
Hold Person: Take their BSF out of the fight
Suggestion: Make me Sanwhiches!!!

Evocation: Wind Wall: With this and a means of getting into the Sky, you get to stop caring about anything that happening in the battle other than beating their Caster. Its really powerful for its level

Transmutation: Fly: Its really great that you mortals have to walk everywhere, but I'm going to fly
Haste: This is one of the reasons everyone will tell you to ignore all the Blasty spells. Cast it on your Party and watch as they just kill things for you
Slow: Yes, I would like winning this battle to be a non-issue. One of the best Save-or-Sucks

Level 4: Abjuration: Dimensional Anchor: Situational, but can make killing Demons and the like a lot easier. Useful for stopping the BBEG from escaping
Remove Curse: Helpful, but dependant on your DM. You might run into Curses every day, or you might never run into them at all.

Conjuration: Black Tentacles: Just another reason why Wizards are amazing. Cast this, grapple all the enemy team. Save-or-Lose for them, basically
Dimension Door: "OH SHI-" button, and a mini-teleport
Solid Fog: Slow them all down, and laugh. Combine with Cloudkill next level to disease your enemies

Divination: By now, I'm expecting you to have taken the Spontaneous Divination ACF, and I'd be disapointed if you hadn't

Enchantment: Charm Monster: "If the enemy of my allies is my enemy, than the enemy of of my allies is my friend!" thinks the monster you're fighting. Now its on your side.
Lesser Geas: Control everyone! Make them your SLAVES!!! Long casting time, though, so not that great in combat

Evocation: Resilent Sphere: Defend yourself, or drop this on your enemies. Its all good.

Transmutation: Polymorph: "Alright everybody, pack up, the Wizard broke the game" Expect to hear that after using this spell to the limits of its abilities. Hell, just even scratching the surface of this spell is likely to get the dreaded DMG of doom thrown at you.

Level 5: Abjuration: These are all quite situational spells, once again. Break Enchantment is useful for fixing your Allies up after an encounter with a Spellcaster who likes to Transmute things

Conjuration: Cloudkill: Just kills the crap out of low level enemies. Slowly kills higher level enemies, regardless of if they save or not. Combine with Sleet Storm and Solid Fog to really screw them up
Teleport: "Its a long hike through the mountains, taking many days..." "Alright guys, see you on the other side -POOF-" Such is the power of Teleport
Wall of Stone: If you don't like the shape of the battlefield, use this to make it more to your liking

Div: See Level 4

Enchantment: Dominate Person: Make people your pets. That is all.
Feeblemind: Turn enemies into nonfunctional social rejects. Doesn't make them any less wise, though, which is odd. All they can say is "Ugg", after all.
Hold Monster: Better version of Hold Person that works on everything

Evocation: Sending: Better than sending a letter
Wall of Force: Stops things. All things.

Transmutation: Baleful Polymorph: Turn people into Weasels. Not as powerful as the other Polymorph spells, this is just a Save-or-Lose
Overland Flight: Just keep on flying, all the time. Its like your feet don't even need to be there
Passwall: Who needs doors?
Telekinesis: Who needs hands?

Level 6: Abjuration: Antimagic Field: Sometimes, you need to turn off the magic. This is how you do it.
Greater Dispel Magic: And this is how you turn off their magic, but leave yours working fine
Globe of Invulnerability: Make it so you don't need to worry about those silly low level casters/Blasters
Repulsion: Scare the weaklings away with your might!

Conjuration: This is about the point where Conjuration starts to lose steam. Planar Binding is nice.

Enchantment: Geas: Make more slaves, all day erry day.
Greater Heroism: Decent Buff, lagging a bit behind the times though.

Evocation: Contingency: And now you don't even need to care about anything.

Transmutation: Mass [Animal's] [Attribute]: Unless someone picked up Leadership, this is gonna be completely useless. Good for buffing Followers though (Just don't expect them to survive; they don't have a chance)
Disintergrate: Gets rid of Problems. Kills low Fort-Types. Gets rid of Enemy battlements. Is there anything Disintergrate can't solve?
Flesh to Stone: Save-or-Die, no doubt about it.

Level 7: Abjuration: Banishment: Does it live outside the Prime Materium? Did it just get summoned? If you answered yes to either of those questions, this is the answer to it
Sequester: Only works on willing targets, but you're an Enchanter; tell them to be willing
Spell Turning: Bring a Forcefield to a knife fight.

Conjuration: Mage's Magnificent Mansion: Rope Trick, but infinitely more pimp
Phase Shift: Campaign specific, but still cool
Greater Teleport: "It is a long sea voyage, fraught with peril. It will take you many months to arrive at your destination" "Sounds fun, see you guys in a few months -POOF-"
Summon Monster VII: Pretty good Summon Monster, got some decent attackers and some with good SLAs; if you can find something to summon it on, you can fly up 200ft and summon a Celestial Baleen Whale to drop on people

Enchantment: Not very good spells at this level. Insanity is okay, but I don't like it; Confusing enemies isn't necessarily the best thing to do, because they might become really focused on killing you on an unfortunate roll

Evocation: Forcecage: Ends fights without any trouble. Costs a ton to use though. Sell many Mounts.

Transmutation: Etheral Jaunt: Because sometimes, being a Material object is bad for your health
Reverse Gravity: If they can't fly, you just won the fight.

Level 8: Abjuration: Mind Blank: This here is why you're specialty is going to be completely worthless towards the end game. This makes you immune to Divination Effects and Mind Effecting abilities. Bad news for Enchanters
Prismatic Wall: Defends against everything. Blinds people with its rainbowness

Conjuration: Maze: No save, just lose. Unless they're a Minotaur
Greater Planar Binding: Make powerful creatures from other planes your pets.

Enchantment: Mass Charm Monster: "Rise up, creatures! I will lead you into battle against your cruel master"
Demand: Funny spell. Tell them to make you Sanwhiches at a range
Irrestible Dance: No Save, just lose. Make them dance for your own amusement

Evocation: Um...well, yeah.

Transmutation: Polymorph any Object: Ridiculously powerful

Level 9: Abjuration: Disjunction: Magical EMP. Your party will hate you for it, but it can save your life.
Prismatic Sphere: If a fights going badly, just cast this and go to sleep. Wake up in about 8 hours, prepare some new spells, and leave the Sphere to fight on.

Conjuration: Gate: How to make your DM have a nervous Breakdown 101: Using Gate is gonna do that.

Divination: Foresight: I knew you were going to say that. I know I've not mentioned any of the other Divination spells, because you should have taken Spontaneous Divination which makes it irrelevant, but this is something special

Enchantment: Dominate Monster: Make a slave of Anything
Power Word - Kill: Finish Him!

Evocation: Meteor Swarm: This is a bad spell mechanically. But damn, if it doesn't have style

Transmutation: Etheralness: Problems on the Material Plane? They aren't your problems
Shapechange: Haha, wow, might as well just stop playing now
Time Stop: Hmm, I think I'm going to win reality. What spell should I use?

Wish: The clue is in the name; you wish for things. Any things.

So yeah, those are some of the gems in Core. I may have missed some, or someone else might have a different opinion, but thats a fairly decent guide. I don't want to try and give advice for PHBII, it'll kill me, and I still need to build something for the Iron Chef Desert.

Someone else will have to do that.

[Eccentric Elf]

For Core, the pick of the crop, that you have access to with Necromancy and Illusion banned, is:

1st: Abjuration: Protection from Alignment: The AC bonuses and the all are nice, but the real mileage of these spells comes from making you immune to charm and compulsion effects.
Shield: +4 to your AC, and it blocks Magic Missile. Brilliant Spell

Conjuration: Grease: One of the best spells for its level in the game; makes enemies flat-footed, gives you bonus to Escape Artist and Grapple checks, makes people drop their weapons... you can do all sorts of things with Grease
Mage Armor: +4 to AC, with an Hours/Level duration. Stacks with Shield too
Mount: Horsie! Also, you can sell it to an unaware passerby on your way out of town. Be sure to be out of there before the duration expires :smallwink:
Summon Monster I: Send Monkeys to their death so you don't trigger traps.
Unseen Servant: Practically Telekinesis

Divination: Comprehend Languages: You'll often find a book in some crazy language, or meet up with a rambling Giant or something. This is the spell for those times
Indentify: Okay, this might be a useful spell, but it costs a decent amount to cast. Either get your party to chip in to cast it, or sell Mounts often. There is an Item in the MiC that completely outshines it, but you don't have access to it, so this is the next best thing

Enchantment: Charm Person: Why, hello there, handsome
Sleep: An encounter ending spell up until about level 5...so yeah, skip this one

Evocation: Magic Missile: Useful against certain enemies, because it is one of the very few Force spells you can get in core, but its a bit weak at doing everything else
Floating Disk: Oh, what fun you can have with Tenser's Floating Disk. Use it to carry stuff...like the bodies of the other players, or Phat l00tz

Transmutation: Enlarge Person: Make you're BSF Bigger and Stronger!
Feather Fall: You never know when this'll come up, but its good to have

Level 2: Abjuration: Resist Energy: Good buff, means you don't burn as quickly
Protection from Arrows: Brilliant Buff, means you don't get shot full of holes by enemy Archers

Conjuration: Glitterdust: Absolutely amazing. Blinds People and outlines Invisible Enemies. And gives things -40 to hide, which comes up occasionally
Web: A brilliant don't-save-just-suck spell. You cast it and they can only move at half speed, if they can move at all. Needs two Anchor points though

Divination: Detect Thoughts: Its the cheap man's telepathy, and its still great.
See Invisibility: The thing about invisible attackers is that the rest of your team is unlikely to notice them creeping up to stab you in the back. Be ever vigilant

Enchantment: Hideous Laughter: A Save-or-Die, almost. If they don't make their save, they're out of the fight though, for your teammates to dispose of at their leisure

Evocation: Scorching Ray: Quite Decent for a Blast, because it deals quite good damage for its level and can target multiple enemies. Many people say its a redeeming factor of Evocation, in the same way that Wall of Force, Defrenstrating Sphere and Force Cage are.
Shatter: Blow up an enemies equipment. Laugh.

Transmutation: Alter Self: Crazy Good. If you want to know more, google...oh, "Polymorph Cheese" or something of that nature. Maybe "good Alter Self forms". You'll understand quite quickly.
[Animal's] [Attribute]: For their level, these are quite powerful, but the parties equipment will eventually outshine them.
Levitate: The first thing that'll get you into the air, and therefore, out of danger
Rope Trick: Its like you don't even need to keep watch anymore, when you can take them to the ROPE DIMENSION!!!

Level 3: Abjuration: Dispel Magic: Self-Explanatory
Explosive Runes: Step 1: Fill a book with nothing but Explosive Runes
Step 2: Get Captured
Step 3: Bad guy comes to taunt you that he's got your spellbook
Step 4: Tell him not to read it; that knowledge is too powerful for one so small minded as he
Step 5: ???
Step 6: Profit

Conjuration: Phantom Steed: This horse outruns cars, and will eventually be able to fly. One of the best level 3 spells in the game
Sleet Storm: Battlefield Control at its finest; slows people down, knocks them over and makes it so they can't see
Stinking Cloud: Takes enemy Casters out of the fight, and debuffs anyone with a bad Fort save
Summon Monster III: Summon Apes and Bison to beat up your enemies for you

Divination: All the spells at this level are good ones; take them all and learn to love them. Or better yet, take the Spontaneous Divination ACF :smallwink:

Enchantment: Deep Slumber: A buffed version of Sleep
Heroism: Makes your friends more HEROIC!
Hold Person: Take their BSF out of the fight
Suggestion: Make me Sanwhiches!!!

Evocation: Wind Wall: With this and a means of getting into the Sky, you get to stop caring about anything that happening in the battle other than beating their Caster. Its really powerful for its level

Transmutation: Fly: Its really great that you mortals have to walk everywhere, but I'm going to fly
Haste: This is one of the reasons everyone will tell you to ignore all the Blasty spells. Cast it on your Party and watch as they just kill things for you
Slow: Yes, I would like winning this battle to be a non-issue. One of the best Save-or-Sucks

Level 4: Abjuration: Dimensional Anchor: Situational, but can make killing Demons and the like a lot easier. Useful for stopping the BBEG from escaping
Remove Curse: Helpful, but dependant on your DM. You might run into Curses every day, or you might never run into them at all.

Conjuration: Black Tentacles: Just another reason why Wizards are amazing. Cast this, grapple all the enemy team. Save-or-Lose for them, basically
Dimension Door: "OH SHI-" button, and a mini-teleport
Solid Fog: Slow them all down, and laugh. Combine with Cloudkill next level to disease your enemies

Divination: By now, I'm expecting you to have taken the Spontaneous Divination ACF, and I'd be disapointed if you hadn't

Enchantment: Charm Monster: "If the enemy of my allies is my enemy, than the enemy of of my allies is my friend!" thinks the monster you're fighting. Now its on your side.
Lesser Geas: Control everyone! Make them your SLAVES!!! Long casting time, though, so not that great in combat

Evocation: Resilent Sphere: Defend yourself, or drop this on your enemies. Its all good.

Transmutation: Polymorph: "Alright everybody, pack up, the Wizard broke the game" Expect to hear that after using this spell to the limits of its abilities. Hell, just even scratching the surface of this spell is likely to get the dreaded DMG of doom thrown at you.

Level 5: Abjuration: These are all quite situational spells, once again. Break Enchantment is useful for fixing your Allies up after an encounter with a Spellcaster who likes to Transmute things

Conjuration: Cloudkill: Just kills the crap out of low level enemies. Slowly kills higher level enemies, regardless of if they save or not. Combine with Sleet Storm and Solid Fog to really screw them up
Teleport: "Its a long hike through the mountains, taking many days..." "Alright guys, see you on the other side -POOF-" Such is the power of Teleport
Wall of Stone: If you don't like the shape of the battlefield, use this to make it more to your liking

Div: See Level 4

Enchantment: Dominate Person: Make people your pets. That is all.
Feeblemind: Turn enemies into nonfunctional social rejects. Doesn't make them any less wise, though, which is odd. All they can say is "Ugg", after all.
Hold Monster: Better version of Hold Person that works on everything

Evocation: Sending: Better than sending a letter
Wall of Force: Stops things. All things.

Transmutation: Baleful Polymorph: Turn people into Weasels. Not as powerful as the other Polymorph spells, this is just a Save-or-Lose
Overland Flight: Just keep on flying, all the time. Its like your feet don't even need to be there
Passwall: Who needs doors?
Telekinesis: Who needs hands?

Level 6: Abjuration: Antimagic Field: Sometimes, you need to turn off the magic. This is how you do it.
Greater Dispel Magic: And this is how you turn off their magic, but leave yours working fine
Globe of Invulnerability: Make it so you don't need to worry about those silly low level casters/Blasters
Repulsion: Scare the weaklings away with your might!

Conjuration: This is about the point where Conjuration starts to lose steam. Planar Binding is nice.

Enchantment: Geas: Make more slaves, all day erry day.
Greater Heroism: Decent Buff, lagging a bit behind the times though.

Evocation: Contingency: And now you don't even need to care about anything.

Transmutation: Mass [Animal's] [Attribute]: Unless someone picked up Leadership, this is gonna be completely useless. Good for buffing Followers though (Just don't expect them to survive; they don't have a chance)
Disintergrate: Gets rid of Problems. Kills low Fort-Types. Gets rid of Enemy battlements. Is there anything Disintergrate can't solve?
Flesh to Stone: Save-or-Die, no doubt about it.

Level 7: Abjuration: Banishment: Does it live outside the Prime Materium? Did it just get summoned? If you answered yes to either of those questions, this is the answer to it
Sequester: Only works on willing targets, but you're an Enchanter; tell them to be willing
Spell Turning: Bring a Forcefield to a knife fight.

Conjuration: Mage's Magnificent Mansion: Rope Trick, but infinitely more pimp
Phase Shift: Campaign specific, but still cool
Greater Teleport: "It is a long sea voyage, fraught with peril. It will take you many months to arrive at your destination" "Sounds fun, see you guys in a few months -POOF-"
Summon Monster VII: Pretty good Summon Monster, got some decent attackers and some with good SLAs; if you can find something to summon it on, you can fly up 200ft and summon a Celestial Baleen Whale to drop on people

Enchantment: Not very good spells at this level. Insanity is okay, but I don't like it; Confusing enemies isn't necessarily the best thing to do, because they might become really focused on killing you on an unfortunate roll

Evocation: Forcecage: Ends fights without any trouble. Costs a ton to use though. Sell many Mounts.

Transmutation: Etheral Jaunt: Because sometimes, being a Material object is bad for your health
Reverse Gravity: If they can't fly, you just won the fight.

Level 8: Abjuration: Mind Blank: This here is why you're specialty is going to be completely worthless towards the end game. This makes you immune to Divination Effects and Mind Effecting abilities. Bad news for Enchanters
Prismatic Wall: Defends against everything. Blinds people with its rainbowness

Conjuration: Maze: No save, just lose. Unless they're a Minotaur
Greater Planar Binding: Make powerful creatures from other planes your pets.

Enchantment: Mass Charm Monster: "Rise up, creatures! I will lead you into battle against your cruel master"
Demand: Funny spell. Tell them to make you Sanwhiches at a range
Irrestible Dance: No Save, just lose. Make them dance for your own amusement

Evocation: Um...well, yeah.

Transmutation: Polymorph any Object: Ridiculously powerful

Level 9: Abjuration: Disjunction: Magical EMP. Your party will hate you for it, but it can save your life.
Prismatic Sphere: If a fights going badly, just cast this and go to sleep. Wake up in about 8 hours, prepare some new spells, and leave the Sphere to fight on.

Conjuration: Gate: How to make your DM have a nervous Breakdown 101: Using Gate is gonna do that.

Divination: Foresight: I knew you were going to say that. I know I've not mentioned any of the other Divination spells, because you should have taken Spontaneous Divination which makes it irrelevant, but this is something special

Enchantment: Dominate Monster: Make a slave of Anything
Power Word - Kill: Finish Him!

Evocation: Meteor Swarm: This is a bad spell mechanically. But damn, if it doesn't have style

Transmutation: Etheralness: Problems on the Material Plane? They aren't your problems
Shapechange: Haha, wow, might as well just stop playing now
Time Stop: Hmm, I think I'm going to win reality. What spell should I use?

Wish: The clue is in the name; you wish for things. Any things.

So yeah, those are some of the gems in Core. I may have missed some, or someone else might have a different opinion, but thats a fairly decent guide. I don't want to try and give advice for PHBII, it'll kill me, and I still need to build something for the Iron Chef Desert.

Someone else will have to do that.

Great spell list! But would you recommend dropping evocation for illusion (as everyone else seems to think I should do)?

[MesiDoomstalker]

Great spell list! But would you recommend dropping evocation for illusion (as everyone else seems to think I should do)?

Its up to complete preference really. I'd take illusion over Evocation because I make a point of being non-blasty to counter my blast-happy group. But thats just me. Being able to mop up a mob of relativly low CR's in a turn is always satisfying and I try to be able to do that at least occaionally, but it is by no means neccisary. Illusion is just plain fun to mess with your enemies. Have an Image of your party running around while the actual party is Greater Invisible. Enemies attack the illusions, whiff horribly, and then eat sneak attack after juicy sneak attack (NOTE: Sneak attack only applies to Rogues and Rogue-like characters). I did the above once. Quite fun till the Greater Invis. wore off one by one. Then, we kicked butt while being minorly annoyed by metal sticks.

[Golden Ladybug]

Evocation is generally derided because of its lack of options compared to the other schools, especially in core. Sure, you can hit a large number of things with a Cone of Cold, but the common opinion is that using that turn to shape the battlefield with a Fog or Wall or giving buffs to the rest of the party.

The validity of this opinion is up to you to decide on, but depending on your party and since you've got limited book access, this could potentially be the right call. Evocation is one of the most fun schools, but it is severely lacking in options. It has a lot of good defense options as well as the Blasty stuff, and a ridiculous amount of spells that throw enemies into the air.

So anyway, in core, you're missing little by banning Evocation. You can get most of it back using Shadow Evocation and Greater Shadow Evocation. I highly suggest NOT using Contingency with Greater Shadow Evocation, because you do not want a Percentile dice being rolled when your trigger conditions are met. 80% isn't bad, but not nearly good enough.

Honestly, it all comes down to preference. Magic is fun like that.

[Medic!]

I'm gonna step out into traffic here and toss out a curveball, how closely have you looked at beguilers from phb2? Enchantment and Illusion are their forte, and they have a pre-set spell list with some room for minor customization and are a fairly solid 1-20 class. Beguilers can be an absolute hoot and a half to play as well. There's no built-in familiar to worry about, and with their high skill aptitude they're a solid choice for the item familiar from Unearthed Arcana. With UMD they also have a great way to substitute some versitility.