[PF] Armor selection for archers?

[Frosty]

Ok, so I'm going to be a Fighter with the Archer archetype. We're starting at level 2, but I know I'll be pumping my dex. Eventually even that Mithral Chain Shirt's Max Dex won't cut it for me. What is the optimal armor for an archer in general?

[Fenryr]

If you pump it too high, it's better to not use armor at all. Quilted Cloth, maybe (+8 Max Dex bonus).

Is 3.5 aviable? The Nimble (MIC) property gives +1 Maximum Dex bonus. Twist cloth, gnome (RoS) gives +1 armor bonus and has unlimited Dex bonus.

[Frosty]

No 3.5 materials. Of course, no armor also means no nifty enhancements like Fortification...

[Arutema]

Unless I am reading the SRD wrong, some of the new Eastern armors from Ultimate Combat have +1 AC and no max dex bonus.

[Fruchtkracher]

Can't you put those on normal clothes? And if that fails, wear robes and enchant those, unless I'm mistaken of course.

[Frosty]

Unless I am reading the SRD wrong, some of the new Eastern armors from Ultimate Combat have +1 AC and no max dex bonus.Doesn't fit the flavor of the setting probably. I'm a street-ganger, not a samurai :smallbiggrin:

[The_Scourge]

So change the flavor of it.
It isn't Sliken ceremonial Armour, It's a Badass Reenforced Trenchcoat.

[Stone Heart]

No 3.5 materials. Of course, no armor also means no nifty enhancements like Fortification...

Bracers of armor can be enchanted similarly to armor, but only up to +8 instead of +10. No max dex bonus, no armor check penalty.

[Doorhandle]

Just a R.A.W question, but can you wear those WITH Armour and recive all the bonuses for a complete silly A.C score?

on topic, does the archer figher not recive Armour training?

That's a bit of a pain. Kinda wounder if it's better to go straight fighter and specialize in bows with feats alone.

[Retech]

Well the AC bonuses don't stack since they're both armor bonuses, but I'm pretty sure that wearing armor disables the other one for the duration of wearing the other.

I don't remember which disables which, but it's on the SRD.

[Zagaroth]

Actually, you get which ever bonus is higher.


an item creator with both wondrous and arms & armor can give bracers of armor special abilities

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/bracers-of-armor

[Yora]

Since creatures with no natural armor have natural armor +0 and can benefit from enchantment bonuses to natural armor, normal clothing should have an armor bonus of +0 and be able to benefit from enchantment bonuses to armor class, and by that all other armor enchantments as well.

[Andreaz]

Since creatures with no natural armor have natural armor +0 and can benefit from enchantment bonuses to natural armor, normal clothing should have an armor bonus of +0 and be able to benefit from enchantment bonuses to armor class, and by that all other armor enchantments as well.

This. Call it your lucky shirt or trench coat of warding against evill.

[grarrrg]

on topic, does the archer figher not recive Armour training?

That's a bit of a pain. Kinda wounder if it's better to go straight fighter and specialize in bows with feats alone.

No.
Out of the 25 archetypes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter) listed, _4_ do not lose any armor training (only 1 of which gets an enhancement). And a few more only keep some armor training.

The main draws of the Archer archetype are increased range increment, and the ability to do Combat Maneuvers at range.
If willing to forgo those, he can easily make do with standard Fighter, regaining Armor Training, and gaining additional weapon group bonuses starting at 9th (i.e. can become a 'switch hitter')

[Larpus]

That said, unless you have Uncanny Dodge or similar effect, it might pay off to still wear some armor, so at least you're not a 10 AC duck when you're flat-footed.

[Frosty]

The main draws of the Archer archetype are increased range increment, and the ability to do Combat Maneuvers at range.
If willing to forgo those
The Maneuvers at range is the only reason I'm taking levels in Fighter, so I'm not giving that up :smallbiggrin:


Actually, you get which ever bonus is higher.


an item creator with both wondrous and arms & armor can give bracers of armor special abilities
So, if you wear a bracers of armor +3, Greater Fortification, and someone casts Mage Armor on you, you lose your Greater Fortification ability for the duration of the Mage Armor?

[sabelo2000]

According to the SRD, correct.

"If a creature receives a larger armor bonus from another source, the bracers of armor cease functioning and do not grant their armor bonus or their armor special abilities."

[Paul H]

Hi

1) Don't you still get Armour Training as a fighter. (Increases max dex)
2) What about Zen Archer? Monk Archetype.

Thanks
Paul H

[ericgrau]

Later you can get celestial armor for +5 base, +3 enhancement and +8 max dex. Also grants fly 1/day. 22,400 gp.

Ah the archer archetype doesn't get armor training. That's not a very good fit to an archer, as it would solve all your dex limit problems. For now a mithril chain shirt should carry you up to a 22 dex, which isn't very long I know. Still better than going armorless even when you hit a 24 or 26 dex.

[Paul H]

Hi

But Zen Archers use Wis for to-hit bonuses from about 3rd level.

So you never have to worry about your dex.

Oh, And Flurry of Bows (No spelling mistake - flurry using your Bow)!

Thanks
Paul H

[Frosty]

Hi

But Zen Archers use Wis for to-hit bonuses from about 3rd level.

So you never have to worry about your dex.

Oh, And Flurry of Bows (No spelling mistake - flurry using your Bow)!

Thanks
Paul H
Using the monk means my AC is now even crappier. With Zen Archery, I don't focus on Dex anymore so that means my AC isn't as high. Sure I get Wis to AC but I don't get to wear armor.

Also, Zen Archers don't get to do ranged disarms and ranged grapples and such.

[Retech]

Actually, you get which ever bonus is higher.


an item creator with both wondrous and arms & armor can give bracers of armor special abilities

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/bracers-of-armor




Bracers of armor and ordinary armor do not stack. If a creature receives a larger armor bonus from another source, the bracers of armor cease functioning and do not grant their armor bonus or their armor special abilities. If the bracers of armor grant a larger armor bonus, the other source of armor ceases functioning.



Indeed, disabling. You can't stack on the AC bonuses for one and then armor properties on the other to try and get both.

[ericgrau]

That gives me an amusing idea. A high level arcane trickster that forces +6 bracers onto foes who might have fortification. First he'd need to have analyze dweomer up while scouting his target for fortification. Next, some way to get a good grapple modifier.

[Frosty]

That gives me an amusing idea. A high level arcane trickster that forces +6 bracers onto foes who might have fortification. First he'd need to have analyze dweomer up while scouting his target for fortification. Next, some way to get a good grapple modifier.

What about heightening a Greater Mage Armor to level 9 (and also have the appropriate spell focus feats of course) and then casting on the target?

[SirChuck]

Bracers of armor, and wear a fancy silk suit. Or something like that.

Since bonuses to AC from the same source (other than "dodge") don't stack, Bracers of Armor will do wonders once you're at the point when you have far too much Dexterity to wear armor (Which sounds like a silly concept, but yeah...)

[Stone Heart]

Bracers of armor, and wear a fancy silk suit. Or something like that.

Since bonuses to AC from the same source (other than "dodge") don't stack, Bracers of Armor will do wonders once you're at the point when you have far too much Dexterity to wear armor (Which sounds like a silly concept, but yeah...)

Whoa whoa whoa, Dodge bonuses stack? Can I get a link to where it says this? That has screwed me over in the past.

[Tyger]

Whoa whoa whoa, Dodge bonuses stack? Can I get a link to where it says this? That has screwed me over in the past.

That would be the stacking rules from the SRD. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#stacking)

[Psyren]

That would be the stacking rules from the SRD. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#stacking)

And here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Armor-Class) is the Pathfinder link to that rule as well (since this is a PF thread.)

[Frosty]

Whoa whoa whoa, Dodge bonuses stack? Can I get a link to where it says this? That has screwed me over in the past.Dodge bonuses have always stacked, since 3.5 (and probably 3.0) came out.

[DeMouse]

fighters already get a big bonus to hit form their class features and high BAB. I wouln't abosutly pump dex and instead start with maybe even a higher strength so you can use a good composite bow.

EG: start with 18 STR, 16 dex so you can use a STR4 composite bow from the start and raise your dex over time.

[Paul H]

Hi

@ Frosty

1) Not sure where you got the idea that Zen Archers would have crappier AC.

Two levels of Synthesist would add +4 Nat AC, have dex 15 & possible Wis 20. Add this to the monks bonus to AC, and you should be at least as good as a fighter, if not more. Mage Armour, Shield & Protection From/xx are all 1st lvl Summoner spells.

2) Gtr Mage Armour doesn't exist in PF.

3) The feat Impact Critical Shot (Ult Combat Pg 104) allows you to effect a Bull Rush or Trip Attack with criticals. (And don't forget Deadly Aim - Power Attack with ranged weapons)!

4) Of course, if AC & HP are more important than multi attack, damage, the ability to fire in close combat without AoO's, plus ability to make AoO's with you bow, etc. then just go straight Synthesist.

The worst build will outclass any comparable fighter build for AC & HP. Even without any armour! (But they won't have all the fighter's bonus combat feats).

Hope that helped
Paul H