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Lucid
2011-10-11, 10:56 AM
I've just figured out I've got a player on this forum, so BooNL please stay out.

I'm having trouble figuring out the main motivation for the BBEG for a campaign I'm planning. He's a either Tibbit or Changeling Thrallherd(haven't decided on this yet), manipulating events from behind the scenes through his thralls and believers.

I've got a basic plot, his personality and some short-term goals, but I can't come up with the big "WHY?".

The plot so far is as following:
A new plant-based drug is being smuggled in from a mostly unexplored continent that has only been discovered in the last 30 years or so.

The drug brings users in a temporary state of bliss, but prolonged exposure makes you more susceptible to mind-affecting effects. This is obviously of interest to our villain, making his mind controlling powers far more effective.
He uses his influence to aid the smuggling through a system of patsies, staying out of sight himself.

I've established him as being highly intelligent and somewhat narcissistic and lazy, a result from his powers developing at a young age. He feels superior to others and manipulates them for his own comfort and enjoyment.

Now the problem I have is in deciding what he ultimately wants to gain from all this. Setting up the smuggling ring and everything that comes with it is a lot of work.
Why does he want control over more people instead of just retiring, with the powers he has he could easily live in peace and comfort without risking things. Where do his greed and lust for total domination come from?

If I'm having trouble accepting his actions as credible, how could I expect this from my players?

Kol Korran
2011-10-11, 11:12 AM
He's in love? he has been in love with the princess/ queen/ prince/ king of the realm. pehrpas they met at a very early age (at magic school? church? some other activity?) and though the object of affection may have found him charming, they would not seriously consider actually being with someone of such low stature. for some (magical) reason, s/he are unaffected by the villain's powers (it couldn't do to have the ruler of the realm easily controlled, now would it?)

though they would not acept someone of such low stature, stature can be changed. the villain wishes to amass masses of followers, and key influence powers, that will lift him to a greater status, thus making him "available" for affection.

you could have fun with this- the love is actually a sort of obsession, that is partly transferred to the thralls, which then start writing poems, build small monuments and generally moon over the object of affection. this may throw the players COMPLETELY in the wrong direction.

the affected ones can also try to vie for some power and influence- gaining some special legendary item? achieving head position in the church, and so on. the players might think each of this is a separate villain, with their own plan. only few clues might link them.

and then, when the object of affection still doesn't do as expected. "look, i..., i undeerstand what you've done, and it's impressive, but it just won't work. you see, it's not you, it's me" routine, the villain really losses it and uses all he amassed to threaten the kingdom.

bonus points if you get one of the PCs to actually date/ court/ be in a relationship with the object of affection- assassins, here we come!

hope this helps. played right i think it could be awesome. :smallwink:

TheJudicator
2011-10-11, 11:26 AM
While I highly devalue my own insight, I'll do my best to give you the input you're requesting with this.

Breaking it down, it looks like you're trying to dig deep into the true nature of why your BBEG is doing what he is doing. And yet for me, and call me crazy for it, I'm seeing a few "why" clauses in your OP. To explain:

Your BBEG is heading a smuggling ring introducing a mind-affecting drug to the masses.
Why? Because his powers are based on mind-affecting, and the drug will increase his potency.

Why does he want that to happen? Because he wants to dominate the entire world.

Why does he want to do that? Because he's an evil, narcissistic SOB.

And why is that? He developed powers at a young age, easily corrupting him.

Now, besides the fact that he is evil, and powerful evil types naturally desire more power and to prove their superiority over every sentient (and most nonsentient) being to walk this plane and the next, one could go a few routes.

Perhaps he was scorned by a higher-up noble of some kind, and craves revenge? perhaps his mind-affecting powers subsequently drove him mad? Really, with evil, you can kind of get away with any reason for a BBEG to do a world domination thing. Especially if said BBEG is also chaotic, they don't tend to have any motive other than "I want to" in most cases...but that's just my opinion!

Yora
2011-10-11, 01:02 PM
He has the power to control peoples mind. So he wants to use it. It is fascinating to make other people slaves to his thoughts and he starts by trying out what the limits of his powers are. But when he finds out, he's not content with accepting his limits and instead becomes obsessed with finding ways to make his mind control powers even stronger.
He has the intelligence and the money, and a way to cover his tracks. Under such circumstances people do a lot of things that seem patently stupid. He doesn't need either more slaves or more money, but pushing his abilities even further is what gives purpose to his life. Improving yourself is a goal for many people who have the basic neccessities of life covered. And for him, its improving his mind control powers.
Just look at athletes who are at the height of their fame. They already have achieved everything they could, but they still keep on competing and improing their skill. He doesn't need a reason, pushing his limits its just what he enjoys.

Jerthanis
2011-10-11, 01:29 PM
What if HE hasn't really thought about it? I mean, he didn't think at the young age when his powers manifested, "You know, I can get whatever I want with this and never have to work for anything, so I'll become narcissistic and lazy." He probably had lots of small temptations to manipulate people in small ways, leading to a situation where he has to belittle and despise his week willed victims because the only other option is to look at himself honestly. Having grown his gang/empire over the years has been a step by step process of building just a little more to ensure his safety and comfort, until the building became an end in itself without him even realizing it. When a new avenue fell into his lap, the idea of NOT using it to further his wealth and power may never even have occurred to him.

I just see this guy lounging in an opium den, surrounded by dominated minions when he hears about the properties of this new drug and before he can even really consciously process it, he feels a deep and foreboding helplessness. In his heart of hearts, he may not want any of this; but maybe even believes that a higher power has followed his life, manipulating HIM to fulfill some nefarious purpose, and cannot help but feel this drug is some element of the higher power's plan. He could believe in this because his experience always puts those manipulated as helpless before the superior will of the manipulator, himself. As within, so without, or so he believes.

And this could all be subconscious, and in fact could represent another way to overcome the main villain other than by sticking pointy objects in him. If they can deduce this undercurrent, get minor clues throughout the game to his underpinnings and then confront him with this information, it could actually convince him to give himself up.

MlleRouge
2011-10-11, 01:32 PM
The above ideas are excellent. If you're interested in a different angle, you could use loneliness as a base. His abilities/species/social standing/'freak' status made him alienated when he was young, so he decided if people wouldn't accept him willingly, he would turn to force. That, over time, turned it into a bit of a sport for him. Collecting. He has a collection!

After that, it's easy for someone's hobby to spiral out of control.

Gensuru
2011-10-11, 01:36 PM
Yeah kinda like Yora said. Boredom.

Sure he COULD retire but then what? Yes it's easy. Yes he has everything he needs for a life of hedonism. But gods is it boring. I mean really what's he supposed to do with the rest of his lifespan? Sit around and think of way to amuse himself? From your describtions he doesn't sound old at all. More like a mind-controller who got his powers at a young age and used them to get anything he wanted so far: money, slaves etc.

Perhaps there is a certain thrill for him in gaining control over someone. After all before heh ad the drug his control was hardly an assured or perfect thing. working your way towards control of every mind on the world sounds like a thrilling challange. One worthy of one of his supreme intellect. It certainly will offer something to keep him busy and thus from being bored to tears. Like he feels nearly untouchable anyways so what's the risk? Playing a game with live toys is more fun that pushing around pieces of wood or stone in a chess game. And if he loses a game? Well he loses some patsy and hurts his ego but at least he'll have someone to focus his attention on for round two. How many games can the annoying hero last before the brilliant cunning web finally snuffs his rsistance? oô


Are more base motivation would be idle sadism and the desire to do as he pleases without fear and without running out of toys. A whimsical creature might soon tire of boring toys and kill them off. With mind controll in amusing and creative ways and the added amusement of effectively having a person kill themselves. Maybe even let their minds go free right before the end just so that realization can set in at the final moments. If he then also happens to have experienced defeat sometime ago he has every motivation of dominating the entire world. If all are under his control no one else will ever dare fight back and hurt him ever again. Also if the entire world is under his control he will have all the toys he could ever need. Entire nations to act out war-games with if a feels like it.

Lucid
2011-10-11, 01:48 PM
Thanks for the replies.

@Kol Korran: I like your ideas, as love is often a great motivator in many stories, and while I agree it would be awesome if played right I don't feel it would fit in this case.
The (homebrew) setting is mostly an industrialist society, where political and economic power is more important than social caste. The main city of the continent is partly inspired by Eberron's Sharn and China Mieville's New Crobuzon. In other words, a bustling metropolis with corrupt government officials, lots political maneuvering and equal parts splendour and squalor.

I very much like the idea of his obsessions/personality transferring to his followers. Also having them vie for power somewhat independently is perfectly in line with my own plans with keeping him out of sight at the center of the conspiracy. Ideally I'd like to get the PC's catch his intention because of their involvement with the smuggling ring (in what way will be up to them). Having the PC's chase after several villains, meeting him without realizing who he truly is.

@TheJudicator: Well, I value your insight. Maybe you're right and I'm looking too deep into it, but I must admit I've never understood the whole "I'm gonna take over the world because I can" attitude.
As I'm typing this I realize this might be more due to this attitude being completely alien to myself. I find it easier to relate to a villain from another campaign, a lich devoted to gathering and preserving knowledge at all costs, but domination isn't really on my own mind.
Maybe I should take this chance to explore some viewpoints other than my own.

edit: Wow, more great ideas. Loneliness, boredom, seeing others as mere toys, to be used and discarded when he feels like it. These definitely fit the character as I had envisioned him.
Ill need some time to process this, thanks for all the suggestions so far.

Dr.Epic
2011-10-11, 03:03 PM
Cleric of an evil god: they're just fulfilling the orders of their deities. That simple.

Revenge: He wants to release this drug into a kingdom that hurt him at some point in his life.

Racial tension: D&D is full of weird races that don't always get along. Maybe he's an orc that wants to make those dumb elves suffer or something like that.

What do you think?

Irish Musician
2011-10-11, 03:08 PM
Ya know, I was looking through this thread and was like, "Holy crap, there are a lot of good ideas here. I might have to bookmark this one and referance it later", haha. All of these are wonderful ideas and I have to congratulate everyone for their awesome ideas.

That being said, here is what my, most likely lame in comparison, idea would be. What about a good, old fashioned want-to-take-over-the-world bad guy that just wants all the wealth and power in the world because he grew up poor and pushed around my all the "upper crust" elite types. Growing up, and working in a peasent type setting, he had to wait hand and foot on these elite jerks. He then aquired these powers around his teenage years, coming into them and seeing that he could use them to hurt and get revenge on these people that have used him all these years. Eventually loving the power that came with is abilities was in fact his own drug and corrupted him.

So that is my idea, much like some of the others but very basic!! Have fun and good luck!!

Shpadoinkle
2011-10-11, 03:09 PM
I think boredom would be a big one. This is really the same reason billionaires keep working and try to make more money- it's something they're good at and they have nothing better to do. Yeah, they could go buy a tropical island somewhere and retire, and it's nice for a while, but eventually it just gets boring- there's not a whole lot to DO. Working makes them feel like they're accomplishing something, and it's a challenge to boot.

Maybe he just wants to see how far he can extend his influence and power. Maybe he's trying to take over the world- not out of any real desire to rule it, he just wants to see if he can do it. Maybe he wants to gather a bunch of worshipers and ascend to godhood. Hell, maybe he never got enough attention as a child (or he could just be egotistical and narcissistic) and he's just doing all this because it makes people pay attention to him.

Dr.Epic
2011-10-11, 03:11 PM
An invasion: the guy is just a Dragon for the Big Bad of some other nation that hired him to spread the drug, weakening this kingdom so he can invade.

GungHo
2011-10-11, 04:08 PM
With this kind of stuff, I do something that's half brainstorming and half flowcharting.

I'll decide the type of enemy (mastermind, strongman, evil scientist), his general power type (controller, blaster, tank, (de)buffer), his general motivation (money, power, SCIENCE!, fame), his style (high or low profile), his resources (serf, merchant, aristocrat, barony, Luthor), his methods (direct, indirect), his tools of trade (henchmen, mysticism, weapons, oration, information), his secret (undead, pervert, Rosebud, WYSIWIG)... this is a basic one and being offered for brevity.

I'll go on as long as I need to go on to get a general feel for the guy and how he interacts with the world. He may be a blend of some of the above (a mastermind who is also an evil scientist... like a Necromancer). And, secrets may not even be his secrets. It could be family secrets.

MlleRouge
2011-10-11, 04:18 PM
A lot of these things can blend together/play off of each other, too. Loneliness (my suggestion) and love are a bitter combination, and can easily lead into boredom, using people as toys...It could all roll together into quite a complex villain.

Sir Augusta
2011-10-11, 05:19 PM
You guys came up with all the ideas I had, but I've still got one that I can think of- maybe he was rejected by his parents, and gaining power/followers is his way of proving his worth to his parents, even if they're dead, or won't accept him regardless.

Kaun
2011-10-11, 05:48 PM
Working off the fact that he is lazy, maybe he is being blackmailed into doing this by somebody else.

Maybe in his younger and stupider days he got himself indebted to a demon or some one particularly nasty who is putting the screws into him to get him doing something which is far more effort then he would usually commit to.

Paseo H
2011-10-11, 09:13 PM
Perhaps he started out with noble intentions and simply went off the rails through his ego and narcissism?

TheGameViking
2011-10-12, 05:38 AM
Motivation is simple, develop the character as just that... a character and the motivation will follow.


So we have a child who grew into a fledgling power set at a very young age. He didn't understand what was going on and if he was loner who lived rough for the first impressionable years in his life, perhaps he was influenced by an older orphan at that age who tended to look out for the others that hung out in that part of the city. This older kid (Lets call him Biccam) watched out for the others, attempted to feed them when possible and tried to keep them somewhat connected to keep them out of trouble and help them help themselves. Generally Biccam was an altruistic person. In the end however, when Biccam learned of the villain's ability he only saw a warm bed and all the food they could eat.

Prompting the villain to develop his power and use it for the betterment of the children, Biccam soon found himself manipulating the villain into keeping a family in docile compliance as the orphans stole what they needed, slept when they could and generally made a better life for themselves then they had seen in a very long time. Even though Biccam knew what he was doing was wrong, he just couldn't justify stopping and letting everyone fall to poverty, hunger and frostbite. Eventually the villain developed his power to the point where the mindless zombies slowly started developing personalities, and eventually his control grew to where the people he 'infected' with his power retained a pale imitation of their personality, what important parts remained supplemented by the villain's own mania's and complexes.

Biccam eventually went to far, attempting to move the orphans into a safer part of the city and the villein's control slipped. Instead of controlling the Mother, Father and children for the twenty minutes or so they would need to clean house, the villains power surged as he was hitting puberty and crushed the mother and children's will, killing them and releasing the father from his control. The father proceeded to kill several of the Orphans and looters, though the villain and Biccam survived. After that however they went their separate ways, Biccam never wanting anything to do with a power that could totally destroy a mind like that, and the villain feeling as though all the death's were his fault. Drowning his sorrows through young adult hood, the villain slowly twisted the story through his mind until it wasn't him that was the bad guy, but Biccam. The Orphan leader had twisted his power for his own end and forced him to kill those children and that mother.

Growing cold on thoughts of revenge, the villain sought out Biccam, now a prominent member of the Thieves guild, and forced Biccam to murder himself with his own dagger. Using his powers of illusion and mind control, the Villain has slowly grown into Biccam's life, subsuming his personality.Now a fully vested member of the Thieves guild, the villain has sense cracked, now fully believing he has become Biccam, even going so far as to keep his skull preserved in his office and talking to it as though it was still a little lonely orphan boy learning to use powers he didn't understand.

The villain seeks to manipulate those around him as it simply comes naturally to him, seeking to play Biccam to the hilt and draw in the innocent, corrupting them with promises of power and wresting free will from those who won't succumb to the drugs he now imports on behalf of the guild, seeking ever more ways to control and bind them to his iron will.

Lucid
2011-10-28, 12:59 PM
Many thanks for all your ideas, they've been a great inspiration.

I've decided to make him a changeling born to human nobles. Ashamed of their strange child they hid him from society. He was spoiled with everything except affection. When his (human) sister was born he grew jealous of the love and attention she got that he had never had. Eventually when his powers developed he forced his parents to murder the girl. Dominating his parents he took control of the noble house's assets. Never having learned to care for others he developed a mentality where if people wouldn't like him he would make them, this has since blossomed into full blown egomania. He has maneuvered himself into the thieves guild and manipulates affairs from the shadows, while he himself lounges in the luxury he has always been used to.