Death of a God and being a Favored Soul

[olejars]

Okay, in the current campaign I'm running with the Asgardian Pantheon. One of my players is a favored soul who worships a god that I slated to die during the course of the campaign. How would this effect the character? Would their divine connection for spells be completely severed?

[hex0]

I would say yes. They would maybe lose all their SU abilities too. What level would this happen?

Although it may be possible that one of the Gods buddies in the pantheon would supply them with divine spells temporarily to embark on a quest to resurrect their god.

Or you could limit them to 1 spell per day per level.

[Moogleking]

That's awesome Prestige Class fluff, right there :D

[olejars]

This character has been on a rollercoaster of sorts. For five levels he claimed he was Heimdal's Chosen/Cleric of Heimdal yet he was a Fav Soul 1/Fighter x at the time. Then his toon went through some stuff that turned his perspective around.


Last session I let the players roll up level 20 divine rank 0 toons to help defend Asgard from the Jotunheim Frost Giants. Heimdal was immediately swarmed and the fighting ensued. I kept giving hints that throughout the fight Heimdal still lived by him shouting, etc. At one point in the fight, this player left the table after his turn and another player decided to teleport up to help heimdal. When he did, he found heimdal slain and he teleported himself and Gjellahorn (Heimdal's trumpet/horn) back to Odin. Odin then sent this character to get outside help and launched this character down to Mannheim where he stood before a group of mere mortals.

So the great thing is, when the player with the favored soul came back to the table, he and his character do not know this is going to happen.


Also, most, if not all, of the gods are now in war with the frost giants and Loki. So having someone slip into Heimdal's shoes wouldn't happen. The party is also currently level 8ish.

[Winds]

I don't know about your setup, but in most D&D pantheons, other gods with similar portfolios take over deceased gods' domains, including their clerics, favored souls and others. A lawful or nice deity may simply grant them power, or at least allow them to declare for an appropriate deity. They might also simply choose to revere what that deity stood for. (While RAW has it as rare that FS declare for an ideal, they can if they like.)

[nedz]

The Favoured Soul becomes a binder ? :smallcool:

I think the FS loses their powers.

Do any of the other gods owe him a favour ? Or perhaps they would like to recruit him; there is a war on ?

Ed: sp

[olejars]

I don't know about your setup, but in most D&D pantheons, other gods with similar portfolios take over deceased gods' domains, including their clerics, favored souls and others. A lawful or nice deity may simply grant them power, or at least allow them to declare for an appropriate deity. They might also simply choose to revere what that deity stood for. (While RAW has it as rare that FS declare for an ideal, they can if they like.)

Favored Souls are not like clerics in the respect to uphold an ideal. They require a deity to channel divine power.

Edit: Just looked through Deities and Demigods for anyone with overlapping portfolios and there is no one in the Asgardian Pantheon

[Flickerdart]

Servant of the Fallen from Lost Empires of Faerun allows anyone with at least 1 level of Cleric to draw spells from a dead god. The Cleric level prerequisite is easily replaced with a Favored Soul level.

It's a pretty crappy feat, though (the other benefit is a +1 luck bonus on a roll 1/day) so consider giving it to him for free if he goes on a quest or something.

[Vemynal]

Allow the character to roll an Ur-priest, hell its one of the only times where the character seems to have actually roleplayed himself into the class without meaning to from the start (that I've heard of).

[hex0]

Servant of the Fallen from Lost Empires of Faerun allows anyone with at least 1 level of Cleric to draw spells from a dead god. The Cleric level prerequisite is easily replaced with a Favored Soul level.

It's a pretty crappy feat, though (the other benefit is a +1 luck bonus on a roll 1/day) so consider giving it to him for free if he goes on a quest or something.

NICE save there. :smallwink:

Edit: Though if I were DMing, I'd let him run around spell-less for awhile until he could level up to get the feat. With a +20% exp boost. (Sort of reverse multi-class penalty). Or perhaps give the character a failure chance for casting the spells as he/she works toward the feat. Maybe 5% per spell level?

[Zaq]

If they've helped out the pantheon in the past (and it seems like they have), I like the idea of the pantheon "adopting" him and subbing in the divine power. You'd have to find a way to make it really feel like his power is from a bunch of different (and not entirely familiar) gods working together. If the character only had a level or two in FS, I'd actually suggest something like a refluffed Sovereign Speaker (Faiths of Eberron) with Ur-Priest (CDiv) casting progression. But that's just an idea.

[pffh]

Well if you're going with the norse gods then so what if he died? That just means he now lives in the underworld hanging out with Baldur and Hel. Don't see why he wouldn't be able to provide spells to his favoured soul from there.

[hex0]

If they've helped out the pantheon in the past (and it seems like they have), I like the idea of the pantheon "adopting" him and subbing in the divine power. You'd have to find a way to make it really feel like his power is from a bunch of different (and not entirely familiar) gods working together. If the character only had a level or two in FS, I'd actually suggest something like a refluffed Sovereign Speaker (Faiths of Eberron) with Ur-Priest (CDiv) casting progression. But that's just an idea.

Or Divine Crusader? Ur-Priest would need some re-fluff.

[SirChuck]

Okay, in the current campaign I'm running with the Asgardian Pantheon. One of my players is a favored soul who worships a god that I slated to die during the course of the campaign. How would this effect the character? Would their divine connection for spells be completely severed?

I am away from my books at the moment, but I'm pretty sure the Favored Soul fluff said something about spark of divinity being "inside them". So unlike clerics, who get their divine powers from the gods by, well, asking them for it, Favored Souls should have theirs as a part of themselves, granted at birth or whenever one becomes a favored soul. Kind of how sorcerers have magic "in their blood", and wizards are just some dudes who study a whole lot.

At least that's how I would treat this. I haven't seen anyone ever play a Favored Soul...

[Grod_The_Giant]

Don't take away your player's spellcasting or make him change his class. That's punishing him for events beyond his control.

Instead, have his magic keep working. Let everyone be really surprised by that fact. Have some pre-existing villain attack him, be easily beaten down by magic, and die groaning that "you were supposed to be powerless!" Make it a mystery about why the magic keeps working.

Then the player starts to hear a voice in his head.

Turns out that Heimdal's not quite dead yet, it being rather difficult to kill a god. 99.99% of his power was lost, but the little spark of consciousness that remains is hiding inside the player, and it's slowly growing...

[Flickerdart]

I am away from my books at the moment, but I'm pretty sure the Favored Soul fluff said something about spark of divinity being "inside them". So unlike clerics, who get their divine powers from the gods by, well, asking them for it, Favored Souls should have theirs as a part of themselves, granted at birth or whenever one becomes a favored soul. Kind of how sorcerers have magic "in their blood", and wizards are just some dudes who study a whole lot.

At least that's how I would treat this. I haven't seen anyone ever play a Favored Soul...
Even if they don't, gods tend to be quite crafty when it comes to being shuffled off. I wouldn't put it past Heimdal, a god of foreknowledge, to invest a few worthy warriors with his essence so that they may rule in his stead if he is killed...should they prove themselves worthy, of course.

[Psyren]

Gods are funny creatures. A little thing like death doesn't always mean you get to stop working.

I would actually expect a FS to be the last person to be depowered after a god's death. Oh sure, a cleric might have to pack it in, but once a FS is instilled with... whatever... I don't see it being so easily disconnected.

[Chess435]

Don't take away your player's spellcasting or make him change his class. That's punishing him for events beyond his control.

Instead, have his magic keep working. Let everyone be really surprised by that fact. Have some pre-existing villain attack him, be easily beaten down by magic, and die groaning that "you were supposed to be powerless!" Make it a mystery about why the magic keeps working.

Then the player starts to hear a voice in his head.

Turns out that Heimdal's not quite dead yet, it being rather difficult to kill a god. 99.99% of his power was lost, but the little spark of consciousness that remains is hiding inside the player, and it's slowly growing...

Can I steal borrow this?

[Analytica]

Seconding letting powers continue... sort of.

Depower them first, and let all the angst flow. Maybe tell the player in secret that, mechanically, a solution will eventually arise, to make sure they do not angst OOC. Then, when the next battle is heading towards TPK... the powers emerge again. The Favoured Soul is now the Chosen vessel for Heimdal's legacy, the seed intended to last through Ragnarok to be reborn in the next world.

In fact... that makes him kind of a symbolic Bifrost Bridge, doesn't it? Maybe weird norns and talking birds will come to refer to him as Bifrost, the significance of which does not become apparent until later...

[Zonasiy]

The default fluff looks like their power is akin to a sorcerer's - that is to say, it comes from within. This would mean that the death of the god granting its power wouldn't remove those powers. This is supported by the fact that there are no ex-favored souls like there are ex-clerics. If the god that granted the powers can't remove them if the favored soul completely goes against its wishes, why would death remove the powers?

[Greymane]

The default fluff looks like their power is akin to a sorcerer's - that is to say, it comes from within. This would mean that the death of the god granting its power wouldn't remove those powers. This is supported by the fact that there are no ex-favored souls like there are ex-clerics. If the god that granted the powers can't remove them if the favored soul completely goes against its wishes, why would death remove the powers?

This. Very this.

I like the ideas that are flying around this thread, however, I do have an objection. The fluff for Favored Souls heavily implies that they were instilled with this divine spark at birth by their deity. Really, it makes sense that Favored Souls would be unaffected by the death of their deity.

I feel, though, that it also makes them perfect candidates to inherit their dead god's job at the end of the campaign, them having that divine spark and all.

[Socratov]

Seconding letting powers continue... sort of.

Depower them first, and let all the angst flow. Maybe tell the player in secret that, mechanically, a solution will eventually arise, to make sure they do not angst OOC. Then, when the next battle is heading towards TPK... the powers emerge again. The Favoured Soul is now the Chosen vessel for Heimdal's legacy, the seed intended to last through Ragnarok to be reborn in the next world.

In fact... that makes him kind of a symbolic Bifrost Bridge, doesn't it? Maybe weird norns and talking birds will come to refer to him as Bifrost, the significance of which does not become apparent until later...

I, for one, love a great story development in a dnd game. So I second this. It might be railroading a bit, and the player might lose some of his abilities (if he plays the 'no ex- favored souls' card, explain the plan to him) temporarily. but when the **** hits the fan, slip him back some of his powers (the weapon focus and specialisation stay ofc., those are just because of skill). and here's the best part: you pick in which order he gets his spells back.

[Zonasiy]

I feel, though, that it also makes them perfect candidates to inherit their dead god's job at the end of the campaign, them having that divine spark and all.

Anyone that's played Baldur's Gate 2 knows that this can be an amazing plot.

[olejars]

This. Very this.

I like the ideas that are flying around this thread, however, I do have an objection. The fluff for Favored Souls heavily implies that they were instilled with this divine spark at birth by their deity. Really, it makes sense that Favored Souls would be unaffected by the death of their deity.

I feel, though, that it also makes them perfect candidates to inherit their dead god's job at the end of the campaign, them having that divine spark and all.

I wouldn't call it a divine spark, but Complete divine describes it as a natural divine connection as opposed to the learned way of the cleric. I guess my real question is when that divine connection is gone, should the favored soul keep it spellcasting and supernatural abilities?

And on a side note, I already had the idea of these guys taking over certain positions in Asgard due to the deaths of certain gods at the end. :smallwink:

[Grod_The_Giant]

Can I steal borrow this?

Please do.