Some help needed with an 'Opposite party' [Archive]

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*.*.*.*

2011-10-11, 06:24 PM

I need a CR 10 party that is the 'opposite' of our party. This is for a few sessions in the future and our party currently consists of:

Human Druid//Ranger(not much fluff known)
Illumian Warblade//Ardent(Ex-Paladin seeking perfection, will multiclass several times to get 9th level powers, Arcane spells, and Divine spells)
Custom Race(Humanoid Gecko with monkey tail) Monk//Fighter(..yeah)
Tibbit Psion//Rogue (info broker)

My thoughts:

Necropolitan Elf Druid/Talontar Blightlord//Necro
LG Succubus Occult Slayer//Paladin (He was tempted to evil by a succubus)
Reptillian Hadozee Barbarian//Unarmed Swordsage
Lupine ?(I have no idea)

Any counter ideas or tips?

Dr.Epic

2011-10-11, 07:01 PM

Druid? That's easy: Blighter...or cleric dedicated to an anti-nature god. God of death or destruction maybe.

*.*.*.*

2011-10-11, 07:02 PM

Druid? That's easy: Blighter...or cleric dedicated to an anti-nature god. God of death or destruction maybe.

Blighter is such an awful PrC, I don't like to remember that it exists

Dr.Epic

2011-10-11, 07:07 PM

Blighter is such an awful PrC, I don't like to remember that it exists

What? That PrC is awesome! What could be better than an entire PrC dedicated to burning down nature and forests? Take that Smokey! Only no one can protect the forests!:smallwink:

Biffoniacus_Furiou

2011-10-11, 08:11 PM

Forget Blighter, go Archivist into Walker in the Waste. Put a level of Cloistered Cleric at 1st with the spontaneous domain casting ACF and Versatile Spellcaster to have nine Walker in the Waste levels, so he has the Greater Drought and can make some decent minions.

The Monk/Fighter's opposite can be... "Thog only multiclass to fighter for two levels to get bonus feats. Fighter level 3 is dumb level, Thog not take." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0064.html) Maybe get Dragontouched and Dragon Tail on that monkey, and go into Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries. With Unarmed Swordsage you could get Shadow Blade and Weapon Finesse and dump Str. I'd go Dragonfire Adept 1/ Swashbuckler 2/ Fighter 2/ Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries 5// Unarmed Swordsage 10, DFA is to get Dragontouched for free and he can take See the Unseen. Get the Arcane Stunt ACF in CM for Swashbuckler, and get plenty of movement skill tricks from CS.

One of the various Canomorphs from the Fiend Folio would be a suitable opposite to the Tibbit. They're canine outsiders (Hell Hound, Shadow Mastiff, and Vorr) that can take humanoid forms, somewhat opposite to lycanthropes. The stats given for each of them already include class levels, which can easily be dropped in favor of different classes. I'd use the Shadurakul (Shadow Mastiff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shadowMastiff.htm)-based), give him a few Warlock levels for the Devil's Sight and Darkness invocations, and make him some sort of sneaky Str-based gish.

Randomguy

2011-10-11, 08:12 PM

You could just throw them in front of a mirror of opposition, but more likely then not after they finished killing their doubles they'd find a way to steal the mirror.

A wizard//factotum would be a nice caster to the psion//rogue (More or less the same capabilities, but arcane instead of psionic.)

TroubleBrewing

2011-10-11, 11:03 PM

I'm going to laugh so hard when the barb/UAswordsage just stomps the crud out of your monk//fighter...

Anyway. If you want a sort of "lizard/monkey" feel for that one, instead of going reptilian Hadozee, why not go Feral Dragonborn instead? It's only +1 LA (instead of +2) and it actually gives that character bonuses where he needs them instead of adding Dex and Wis, 2 stats that a Barbarian//Unarmed Swordsage only 'needs' one of. Plus, it'll only help the inevitable beatdown. (I love watching Monks lose.)

For the Lupine character, consider a Lupine (another race out of DragMagCompendium) Warlock//Bardblade? Something good up close and far away, and suitably Cha-focused.

I love the Necropolitan Elf thing, though. That's rad as hell.

hex0

2011-10-11, 11:18 PM

Human Druid//Ranger(not much fluff known)
Illumian Warblade//Ardent(Ex-Paladin seeking perfection, will multiclass several times to get 9th level powers, Arcane spells, and Divine spells)
Custom Race(Humanoid Gecko with monkey tail) Monk//Fighter(..yeah)
Tibbit Psion//Rogue (info broker)

Elan Duskblade/Doomlord
hogoblin Factotum/Crusader
Raptoran Swordsage
Dwarf Spellthief/beguiler.

:smallwink:

NNescio

2011-10-11, 11:30 PM

[...]Human Druid//Ranger(not much fluff known)

Dwarf Cleric who hates trees.

deuxhero

2011-10-12, 12:25 AM

What does your druid focus on (Wildshape, casting ect)?

A LG member of The Believers of the Source ("Godsmen", from Planescape. Basically attempting to gain karma so they eventually reincarnate as gods) makes an excellent foil character wise for the ex-Paladin.

*.*.*.*

2011-10-12, 02:31 AM

Morph Bark

2011-10-12, 02:35 AM

Illumian Warblade//Ardent(Ex-Paladin seeking perfection, will multiclass several times to get 9th level powers, Arcane spells, and Divine spells)

I presume then that Theurge PrCs are allowed?

Biffoniacus_Furiou

2011-10-12, 03:22 AM

I want to keep from too much multiclassing and absolutely no levels of fighter

I had actually recommended UASS to him instead of monk, he gave me some BS reasons. His fight will be fun

I'd actually advise against using Unarmed Swordsage for his opposite, then. You suggested he use that instead of Monk and he didn't want to, so you'll make one yourself to kick his character around with? That doesn't look like it would be very much fun for him, and he may take it personally or end up just hating his own character.

I'd go with a Spring Attack build of some kind, preferably with Skirmish and/or Psionic Meditation + Hustle + Greater Psionic Fist/Weapon. You could go Psychic Warrior or Ardent (Freedom mantle) 10// Monk 1/ Scout 9, with Tashalatora to get 10th level Monk speed and damage. Possibly throw some Ranger on there with Swift Hunter, though you said not too much multiclassing. Maybe even give him Acrobatic Strike (PH2) and make Tumble checks when he moves around to get a +4 to hit. (Spring Attack avoids AoOs anyway, but you can still use Tumble as though it didn't.) Get plenty of movement skill tricks in CS and make him show off a bit.

Runestar

2011-10-12, 05:00 AM

Maybe a wilder to serve as a mirror to his psion?

*.*.*.*

2011-10-12, 11:50 AM

Maybe a wilder to serve as a mirror to his psion?

I like that idea! What is the opposite of a rogue? Fighter?

I'd actually advise against using Unarmed Swordsage for his opposite, then. You suggested he use that instead of Monk and he didn't want to, so you'll make one yourself to kick his character around with? That doesn't look like it would be very much fun for him, and he may take it personally or end up just hating his own character.

No offense, but I could care less. The player and I have had several arguments over the effectiveness of the monk, this should prove him wrong.

Morph Bark

2011-10-12, 12:03 PM

No offense, but I could care less. The player and I have had several arguments over the effectiveness of the monk, this should prove him wrong.

So you'd rather prove yourself to be right rather than create a fun experience for him? :smallconfused:

That's sounds like some rather shoddy DMing to me.

Also, by choosing an Unarmed Swordsage, you're not creating an opposite either. The opposite would be more likely to be a barbarian. The rogue-to-fighter opposite sounds about right though.

*.*.*.*

2011-10-12, 12:15 PM

So you'd rather prove yourself to be right rather than create a fun experience for him? :smallconfused:

That's sounds like some rather shoddy DMing to me.

That is just hurtful

Also, by choosing an Unarmed Swordsage, you're not creating an opposite either. The opposite would be more likely to be a barbarian. The rogue-to-fighter opposite sounds about right though.
So the monk's opposite is a Barbarian//rogue? That just sounds wrong for some reason

hex0

2011-10-12, 12:33 PM

So the monk's opposite is a Barbarian//rogue? That just sounds wrong for some reason

Not wrong enough! Monk//Fighter is a high Wisdom character that punches people. Make it a Githyanki Barbarian//PSYCHIC Rogue with a big ol' sword. :smalltongue:

*.*.*.*

2011-10-12, 12:57 PM

I believe that Barbarian//rogue is stronger than monk//fighter, but it still doesn't seem all that useful. I am worried if the wilder//fighter can match the Psion//rogue though, as the player isn't a hack at making characters. His build is actually Psion//swordsage3/rogue2(as I said, the opposite party will be for later) if that makes a difference

Biffoniacus_Furiou

2011-10-12, 01:00 PM

For the Tibbit Psion//Rogue's opposite, I'd use a Shadurakul (CR 5 + class levels) with Fighter levels using the Thug (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug) and sneak attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter) variants. Probably go Outsider 4/ Warshaper 5// Warlock 2/ Thug 7, invocations should be Darkness and Devil's Sight to always be using his Shadow Blend, and he should use Morphic Weapons to add natural weapons (2 claws, bite, gore, tail slap, 12 24 144 tentacles, etc.) to his humanoid form, and be sure to get Multiattack. Note that he keeps his Trip ability in humanoid form, though he can't normally use it because he doesn't normally have a bite attack in that form, so this would allow him to make use of that. Disabling his Shadow Blend would be as easy as a Daylight or Dispel Magic, but he'll probably be one of the more dangerous opponents.

For the Fighter//Monk's opposite, go ahead with Unarmed Swordsage//Barbarian, but use Bear Totem Barbarian (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bearTotemClassFeatures ) with a large or Powerful Build race, and use Crushing Weight of the Mountain. Maybe even Barbarian 5/ Warmind 5, with Expansion and Grip of Iron, and be sure to get Practiced Manifester.

*.*.*.*

2011-10-12, 01:55 PM

For the Fighter//Monk's opposite, go ahead with Unarmed Swordsage//Barbarian, but use Bear Totem Barbarian (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bearTotemClassFeatures ) with a large or Powerful Build race, and use Crushing Weight of the Mountain. Maybe even Barbarian 5/ Warmind 5, with Expansion and Grip of Iron, and be sure to get Practiced Manifester.

Thanks for the 'Lock help

I'm thinking about not using UASS like you and Morph suggested, as they really aren't opposites. Got any tips for Barb//rogue? I was thinking of using a ring of blink+pierce magic concealment for constant sneak attack and maybe a spiked chain for dungeon crasher goodness.

Biffoniacus_Furiou

2011-10-12, 02:07 PM

Divine Minion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) (Sebek), Bear Totem Barbarian 6/ Warblade 4// Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b) 5/ Psychic Assassin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d) 5, with the much-overlooked Savage Grapple feat from Complete Adventurer. Get the Mind Cripple trick from Psychic Assassin, probably pick up Hidden Talent and/or Expanded Knowledge for Expansion and/or Grip of Iron, and still use Crushing Weight of the Mountain.

*.*.*.*

2011-10-12, 02:13 PM

Biffoniacus_Furiou

2011-10-12, 02:27 PM

Divine Minion is to use Savage Grapple, which requires Wild Shape and is only active when in a Wild Shape form. Divine Minion grants an unlimited use/duration Wild Shape into one specific creature, and Sebek grants the form of a Crocodile which is a good choice for a grappler. It's also similarly themed to his reptilian character, though more of a predator that would eat him than a relative. It mostly just has a lot of synergy for a sneak attacking grappler, if you even want to go that route.

For the Archivist/Walker in the Waste, I'd probably put at least one Cloistered Cleric level at 1st for early qualification tricks, unless you want to just hand-wave it to make him an Archivist 1/ Walker in the Waste 9. Ranger doesn't really have an opposite that springs to mind, so maybe use Urban (Mystic) Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rangerVariantUrbanRang er) as it would give him some nice saves, BAB, and skills to go along with Walker in the Waste. Make his animal companion a Ghost Brute (LM) that still sticks around.

*.*.*.*

2011-10-12, 02:43 PM

Ranger doesn't really have an opposite that springs to mind, so maybe use Urban (Mystic) Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rangerVariantUrbanRang er) as it would give him some nice saves, BAB, and skills to go along with Walker in the Waste. Make his animal companion a Ghost Brute (LM) that still sticks around.

I think I'll just do a necro build on the other side for the "despoiler of nature" theme. He will be a tad bit redundant, but I don't need to overpower the lad too bad. If both the monk and the druid die, the group may get mad.

I'm thinking succubus 7/x 3//Pathfinder Pally 10 for the ardent. By level 10, his build(his full build was sent to me) will be Warblade 9/Metaphysical spell shaper1//Ardent5/ur-priest 1/Shadow templar 1/Mystic Theurge 3

Biffoniacus_Furiou

2011-10-12, 03:04 PM

Maybe some sort of Half-Succubus (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630a) would be easier to explain than a redeemed Succubus Paladin. Succubi don't get into combat willingly, so that could be a more suitable opponent than someone who would rather manipulate him into changing sides than fight him, unless that's what you're after.