Large creature with lowest LA

[Dr.Epic]

So basically I want to play a War Hulk, and want to know the lowest level I could do this. So what's the creature that's large and has the lowest level adjustment?

Thanks.

[grarrrg]

So basically I want to play a War Hulk, and want to know the lowest level I could do this. So what's the creature that's large and has the lowest level adjustment?

Thanks.

Creature that's large with low level adjustment?
YO MAMA!

Now that that's out of the way...

Half-Ogre, LA+2
I think you can get large for a LA+1 template though.

[Yora]

Lowest Level Adjustment, or lowest Effective Character Level?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Half-Ogre in Races of Destiny is +2 LA.

Half-Minotaur template from Dragon 313 is only +1 LA, it increases a medium base creature to large and is extremely overpowered for its level adjustment.

[Keegan__D]

Half-Minotaur and Half-Ogre template from Dragon #313 grant large size for a +1 LA. There is a Half-Ogre race (+1 LA) in Savage Species, so it might not fly.
Goliath (RoS) and Half-Giant (Psionic something) have Powerful Build for +1 LA. I'm not certain if Powerful Build works for qualifying for prestige classes. If I understand Powerful Build correctly, you can apply the Half-Ogre template without an LA on top of the racial one. You still gain the other features, but since Powerful Build makes you considered large, you don't get the LA.
Dragonkin (Draconomicon) has +2 LA, though, they have 7HD.

[Fax Celestis]

Goliath Barbarian (racial sub) 1 (ECL 2 with the +1 LA) turns large when raging, which when combined with War Hulk can make a hilarious Hulk-like character: turn on the rage, get all the War Hulk class features, including No Time to Think. Turn it off, shrink back into Bruce Banner smarter, puny baby man.

[Darth_Versity]

Half Ogre in savage species is +1, but I think it was reprinted in Races of Destiny as a +2.

As others have mention there are some templates in dragon for half minotaur and half ogre but if you tried using those at my table you'd have a DMG sized mark on the side of your face.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Enlarge Person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enlargePerson.htm) + Permanency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/permanency.htm) gives you large size for no level adjustment. Standard rates (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#spellcastingAndServices) for those at caster level 20 (to avoid a crippling dispel) would be 4,500 gp total.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Goliath Barbarian (racial sub) 1 (ECL 2 with the +1 LA) turns large when raging, which when combined with War Hulk can make a hilarious Hulk-like character: turn on the rage, get all the War Hulk class features, including No Time to Think. Turn it off, shrink back into Bruce Banner smarter, puny baby man.

Even more fun is a Halfling Stoneblessed (Goliath) Barbarian Warhulk, since the mountain rage isn't phrased as a size increase but as a "You are now large, no if, no buts, you are large" :smallbiggrin:

[Cog]

Techincally, anthropomorphic baleen whale (Savage Species) beats those out; it's LA: 0. It comes with three racial HD instead, though they're at least monstrous humanoid dice (full BAB d8s)

[Darrin]

So basically I want to play a War Hulk, and want to know the lowest level I could do this. So what's the creature that's large and has the lowest level adjustment?


Technically, the anthropomorphic huge viper snake and anthropomorphic baleen whale have the lowest LA (+0), but they also have 3 racial HD. Savage Species p. 217.

[EDIT] Technically, I've been swordsage'd.

[Aneurin]

With a lenient DM, try the Minotaur race from the Dragonlance Campaign Setting (LA+0, but only medium) and the Powerful Build feat from the same that lets you count as Large if it's an advantage for you - and in this case, I'd say the feat applies. Yes, it is an advantage for you to count as large so you can qualify for a prestige class.

I'd probably rule in favour of it if it were me, but you know your DM best.

[Essence_of_War]

There is a guide to various monstrous races with racial hit die in my sig. Many of them can get you large for not too much ECL investment. The centaur is a notably reasonable choice, others might be OK or terrible depending on your starting ECL.

Others have already mentioned the Half-minotaur template, and the half-ogre race. YMMV, but some DMs allow medium sized goliaths or half-giants to take War Hulk levels, in the spirit of powerful build counting them as one size larger whenever it is beneficial, although this is dubious at best by RAW.

[Kaje]

Even more fun is a Halfling Stoneblessed (Goliath) Barbarian Warhulk, since the mountain rage isn't phrased as a size increase but as a "You are now large, no if, no buts, you are large" :smallbiggrin:

This is a really weird one, because according to the text of Mountain Rage, you become large, gaining benefits such as grapple mods and reach, but only grow about a foot, and don't get the ability to use larger weapons.

So yes, the halfling is technically large, but is only four feet tall and can only use small weapons without penalty.

On the other hand, another more questionable interpretation of mountain rage is that in addition to becoming large and growing a foot, you also gain powerful build. Even then, I think you'd be limited to medium weapons.

So yeah... weird.

[Dr.Epic]

Lowest Level Adjustment, or lowest Effective Character Level?

Yes! No! Neither! Both!


Half-Ogre in Races of Destiny is +2 LA.

Half-Minotaur template from Dragon 313 is only +1 LA, it increases a medium base creature to large and is extremely overpowered for its level adjustment.

Don't have the issue, so will just go with Half-ogre.


Enlarge Person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enlargePerson.htm) + Permanency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/permanency.htm) gives you large size for no level adjustment. Standard rates (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#spellcastingAndServices) for those at caster level 20 (to avoid a crippling dispel) would be 4,500 gp total.

Yeah, but what happens should I enter an anti-magic field, or the spell gets dispelled. Do I lose the features of the PrC?

[Keegan__D]

This is a really weird one, because according to the text of Mountain Rage, you become large, gaining benefits such as grapple mods and reach, but only grow about a foot, and don't get the ability to use larger weapons.

So yes, the halfling is technically large, but is only four feet tall and can only use small weapons without penalty.

On the other hand, another more questionable interpretation of mountain rage is that in addition to becoming large and growing a foot, you also gain powerful build. Even then, I think you'd be limited to medium weapons.

So yeah... weird.

It says the grapple, weapon size, etc is because the Goliath already has that because of powerful build. If I understand correctly, RAW doesn't grant anything but the space/reach, size, AC, and attack roll mod. I think it's perfectly safe to assume such a situation simply wasn't anticipated, and that the Halfling should get everything that happens when a creature becomes large.

[Darthteej]

Now that we've got that out of the way, what's your dodge bonus vs books?

[Keegan__D]

Now that we've got that out of the way, what's your dodge bonus vs books?

That depends mostly on the amount of easily breakable things the DM owns and you currently possess. Like the spirit of the game. :smallbiggrin:

[ericgrau]

Yes! No! Neither! Both!



Don't have the issue, so will just go with Half-ogre.



Yeah, but what happens should I enter an anti-magic field, or the spell gets dispelled. Do I lose the features of the PrC?

20 x 1 x 10 = 200 gp enlarge person. 20 x 5 x 10 = 1000 gp permanency. 5 gp x 500 = 2500 gp xp cost. Total = 3700 gp, unless I'm missing something?

And when you get dispelled, you pop a 50 gp potion to keep going for that one fight and then spend another 3700 gp. Dispels seem to be surprisingly uncommon. You might need to pay this 3 times over the course of a campaign. At CL 20, more like once or twice. Still probably cheaper overall than 2 LA since half-ogre only gives so-so ability score bonuses. As long as you have easy access to big cities with NPCs, anyway.

[CockroachTeaParty]

A note about War Hulk:

It's best to wait to take War Hulk at epic levels, since you still get a 'BAB' progression of sorts.

If that's not an option, the Legacy Champion prestige class might be worth a look: actual BAB progression, and you'll still be able to advance War Hulk madness.

[Suichimo]

Half-Minotaur and Half-Ogre template from Dragon #313 grant large size for a +1 LA. There is a Half-Ogre race (+1 LA) in Savage Species, so it might not fly.
Goliath (RoS) and Half-Giant (Psionic something) have Powerful Build for +1 LA. I'm not certain if Powerful Build works for qualifying for prestige classes. If I understand Powerful Build correctly, you can apply the Half-Ogre template without an LA on top of the racial one. You still gain the other features, but since Powerful Build makes you considered large, you don't get the LA.
Dragonkin (Draconomicon) has +2 LA, though, they have 7HD.

From what I see, a Half-Ogre Goliath would be a Large size creature that counts as a Huge creature. +2 LA, but thats gone by 10th level and you're huge.

[faceroll]

What about a level or 4 in psychic warrior for expansion?