[3.5] Swordsage Challenge

[Ruinix]

The thing is, we need a Swordsage lev 15 with unarmed combat, build up with a Stronheart Halfling using a free LA template with *wild* from savage species.

28 point buy.
All cores
All splats books allowed
Seting and "area" powers/features/feats just of Greyhawk.
WBL 15
NOTHING FROM DRAGON MAGAZINE plz.

Ok. challenge start!

[Snowbluff]

Are we only using SS levels or are we doing PRCs and cross-classing?

Also, before I start, I think Superior Unarmed Strike, Snap Kick, Adaptive Style, as well Shadow Blade + Weapon Finesse pretty much make the class...

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The thing is, we need a Swordsage lev 15 with unarmed combat, build up with a Stronheart Halfling using a free LA template with *wild* from savage species.

28 point buy.
All cores
All splats books allowed
Seting and "area" powers/features/feats just of Greyhawk.
WBL 15
NOTHING FROM DRAGON MAGAZINE plz.

Ok. challenge start!

Ummm... it can already do that out of the box.

Unarmed Swordsage has Monk unarmed damage progression. Pick up Snap Kick for an extra attack. Use Pouncing Strike for full attack on a charge. The 'wild' template makes this even more ridiculous.

You don't need to 'optimize', you already have. All you need to do is pick maneuvers and feats.

Personally, I'd also suggest Diamond Mind for double-full-attack action, tiger claw for x-ing mongoose boosts and pouncing strike, pick up the capstone maneuver from Stone Dragon for Con damage output, and some Shadow Hand teleport maneuvers for additional mobility. Then you can pick up Setting Sun for Baffling Defense/Manticore Parry/Scorpion Parry + Shifting Defense = ignore melee attacks.

[Snowbluff]

While you are at it, pick up a Monk's Belt. INcreased fist damage, AC, and Stunning Fist uses.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

While you are at it, pick up a Monk's Belt. INcreased fist damage, AC, and Stunning Fist uses.

Monk's Belt wouldn't stack with IUS in this case, because a Monk's Belt would increase his effective monk level for unarmed damage by 5, to the cap of 20. Raising it any higher would be pointless. So don't bother with IUS if you throw WBL at the problem.

Improved Natural Attack, however, increased damage by one size category, which is of use.

[JaronK]

As a rule, I prefer to multiclass a bit for the first four levels, so that on my first Swordsage level I get second level maneuvers. I've always found that worthwhile. If you want to cheese it up, take a Major Bloodline and multiclass around a good bit more, taking one level from each class... if you have 8 levels like that, then go into Swordsage, your Initiator level at your first swordsage level is 15 (at level 13, when you finally have a major bloodline, a Swordsage who took 8 level 1 classes and then went pure Swordsage for the next 5 would have an initiator level of 24).

But even without that, consider a very basic Fighter 2/Warblade 1/Crusader 1 start before jumping into Swordsage. That gives you a few feats to play with and a bunch of utility maneuvers and prerequisites handled in advance, with only a two point overall loss in initiator level.

JaronK

[Mystral]

I advise taking the feat that gives you dex bonus on damage while you are in a shadow hand stance. That and weapon finesse make you nearly SAD. Other then that, check out the swordsage handbook found here:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10070449

[Snowbluff]

Monk's Belt wouldn't stack with IUS in this case, because a Monk's Belt would increase his effective monk level for unarmed damage by 5, to the cap of 20. Raising it any higher would be pointless. So don't bother with IUS if you throw WBL at the problem.

Improved Natural Attack, however, increased damage by one size category, which is of use.

You mean Superior Unarmed Strike, not IUS. Improved Unarmed Strike is only taken as prereq for SUS and Snap Kick (and sometimes for maves, depending on DM pickiness). Eventually, the Belt won't be too useful, but it'd be helpful now.

Also, I'd say use the Mo9 prestige class. The insane feat requirements aren't an issue, since you're already taking half of them, and the other half aren't entirely dead-weight (except dodge, but you can take the Desert Wind Dodge instead, which is slight better). They all can be taken with flaws, too. Then final ability pretty much reads +6dmg/+6atk with the minimum required maneuvers.

[Ruinix]

You don't need to 'optimize', you already have. All you need to do is pick maneuvers and feats.

awwww :smallredface: thx u man :smallredface:
__


oook nice bunch of ideas. now plz build up a final progress.

Asign Stat Points.
Select Manuevers and stances.
Items.
And the all thing.


Take in the build the next things:

-NO CHEESE. of any kind, my DM is very strict with the rotten things and despise them all.
-Increese the AC as high as posible. (again, plz without any cheese)
-Maybe put in some AoO iteraction ?! with so much Dex is a waste not to.
-Pounce via wild template. put it in.


About buffs, don't worry ppl, cause behind this front liner there is a cleric/warlock, a sorcer/divine oracle, a Druid, and my wizard/beg/UM, so he will have ALL the buffs avaible in SC + PH2 XD hehehe


EDIT TO ADD.

Almost forgot. No one said nothing about posibles PrCs ?! Or is better stay with the swordsage. Cause this campaing we are now on lev 15 but we plan to finish at lev 21-22.

[Snowbluff]

awwww :smallredface: thx u man :smallredface:
__


oook nice bunch of ideas. now plz build up a final progress.

Asign Stat Points.
Select Manuevers and stances.
Items.
And the all thing.


Take in the build the next things:

-NO CHEESE. of any kind, my DM is very strict with the rotten things and despise them all.
-Increese the AC as high as posible. (again, plz without any cheese)
-Maybe put in some AoO iteraction ?! with so much Dex is a waste not to.
-Pounce via wild template. put it in.


About buffs, don't worry ppl, cause behind this front liner there is a cleric/warlock, a sorcer/divine oracle, a Druid, and my wizard/beg/UM, so he will have ALL the buffs avaible in SC + PH2 XD hehehe


EDIT TO ADD.

Almost forgot. No one said nothing about posibles PrCs ?! Or is better stay with the swordsage. Cause this campaing we are now on lev 15 but we plan to finish at lev 21-22.


The hell you talkin' aboot?! I said take master of nine if you are not keen on SW to 20.

Edit: SW up to 20 is only good at 20 imo, so if you aren't good on stacking boosts, Mo9. You don't qualify for Eternal Blade since you aren't an elf.

(Greater) Luminous Armor from BoED is great, but a picky DM might count it as armored, and you'd need a good caster to cast it (the cleric or druid maybe). Same with sorc/wiz armor spells. I'd argue, that is doesn't WEIGH anything and have no max dex, that it should not count as armored.

Have the druid G. Magic Fang Greater (Fist), and has the wizard Permanency it. Also, Barkskin.

Buys Rod Of Extend, and some pearls of power to make up for the spell slots that you are leeching off of your Druid (and maybe the cleric). Also, Rod of Bodily Restoration to fix the Str dmg from using L. Armor.

[ILM]

Somewhat unrelated, vent ahead.

There's a lot of these threads going around these days. I do not think "challenge" means what you think it means. A challenge implies a game, rules, and win conditions (and winners, obviously); optionally, a prize. These threads are more like "Challenge: build a character for me, using these restrictions, plus others I'm going to add while you're working, some extremely vague and others that I'll change my mind about, for nothing else than my often silent (if at all existant) gratitude."

I mean, I've come to these boards for help often enough, I get that. But I make it a point to have at least something to improve on before formulating a request, and I don't go all "wheee, you're going to love this challenge of mine, it'll be so fun, and there's cake!" Neither do I ask for a level 15 Swordsage, and 3 posts later wonder why people didn't suggest any PrCs.

I mean:

oook nice bunch of ideas. now plz build up a final progress.

Asign Stat Points.
Select Manuevers and stances.
Items.
And the all thing.
Seriously? You want fries with that? At least be up-front about it, instead of calling it a 'challenge'. Iron Chef: that's a challenge. This, however, is more like you outsourcing your homework to the Playground. :smallannoyed:

[Snowbluff]

Somewhat unrelated, vent ahead.

There's a lot of these threads going around these days. I do not think "challenge" means what you think it means. A challenge implies a game, rules, and win conditions (and winners, obviously); optionally, a prize. These threads are more like "Challenge: build a character for me, using these restrictions, plus others I'm going to add while you're working, some extremely vague and others that I'll change my mind about, for nothing else than my often silent (if at all existant) gratitude."

I mean, I've come to these boards for help often enough, I get that. But I make it a point to have at least something to improve on before formulating a request, and I don't go all "wheee, you're going to love this challenge of mine, it'll be so fun, and there's cake!" Neither do I ask for a level 15 Swordsage, and 3 posts later wonder why people didn't suggest any PrCs.

I mean:

Seriously? You want fries with that? At least be up-front about it, instead of calling it a 'challenge'. Iron Chef: that's a challenge. This, however, is more like you outsourcing your homework to the Playground. :smallannoyed:

Would you be mad if I just did it then? And I did suggest a PRC!

[Ruinix]

{{scrubbed}}
+2 flaws aproved :D

Savage Species banned for be 3.0 (feb 2003) so no Wild template.

[Hiro Protagonest]

ILM. troll in some other place. thx. bye bye.

But he's right. This isn't a challenge, this is a request thread. Except you're not asking for tips, you're just saying "here, this is how you build this character. Tell me when you're done so I can steal it. Thx. Bye bye".

[Zaq]

Somewhat unrelated, vent ahead.

There's a lot of these threads going around these days. I do not think "challenge" means what you think it means. A challenge implies a game, rules, and win conditions (and winners, obviously); optionally, a prize. These threads are more like "Challenge: build a character for me, using these restrictions, plus others I'm going to add while you're working, some extremely vague and others that I'll change my mind about, for nothing else than my often silent (if at all existant) gratitude."

I mean, I've come to these boards for help often enough, I get that. But I make it a point to have at least something to improve on before formulating a request, and I don't go all "wheee, you're going to love this challenge of mine, it'll be so fun, and there's cake!" Neither do I ask for a level 15 Swordsage, and 3 posts later wonder why people didn't suggest any PrCs.

I mean:

Seriously? You want fries with that? At least be up-front about it, instead of calling it a 'challenge'. Iron Chef: that's a challenge. This, however, is more like you outsourcing your homework to the Playground. :smallannoyed:

I agree. As a wise man once said, you must have a ride before it can be pimped.

[Ruinix]

my thx to those who help and throw me some hints.
thx for nothing to the rest.

[RaggedAngel]

my thx to those who help and throw me some hints.
thx for nothing to the rest.

"Thanks."

The word is spelled "thanks."

If you cannot even be bothered to type an additional three letters to make yourself a bit more understandable, why should others put forth effort to help you?

With that out of the way, I'd like to ask you something: what's the point in even playing this game if you're going to use a character someone made entirely for you? You might as well just search CharOp boards for overused tricks at that point. There is a massive difference between asking the Playground for specific help and trying to foist off your least favorite part of the game on others.

[Snowbluff]

Str:10, Dex: 16, Con:14, Int:8, Wis:16, Cha:8 with the point buy, then adjust for halfling.

Max Concentration, then 3 other key skills (Maybe the Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, and Tiger Claw ones...)

SS10/MoN5

Feats:

Flaw1: IUS
Flaw2: Weapon Finesse
1: Imp Init
3: Adaptive Styles
6: Dodge
9: Blind-fight
12: Shadow blade
15: Something was going to go here, Imp Natural Attack maybe, idr...
Snap kick would be a nice addition, maybe take it at level 15, take INA at 18, or vice-versa. Power attack maybe... idc...
Maneuvers don't really matter, but take Sapphire/Ruby/Diamond Nightmare strike, (normal)/Greater Insightful Strike, and one from each school. You have more than enough maneuvers known to do this. Go be a human for extra feat, and not dealing small creature dmg. Yeah, halfings suck for unarmed.

Take the Shadow Hand teleport maneuvers, and sudden leap from Tiger Claw. Moving as swift action is very valuable. The Setting Sun Counters are are a must, not so much for Wall of Blades (Take it as a MoN).

Also, Master of Nine lets you take maneuvers from any school, and gives you bonuses the more schools you have readied at the beginning of the day.

Map your SS Insightful Strike feature to Diamond Mind, Discipline Focus to Tiger Claw (Weapon Focus for Unarmed), and Defensive Stance for Shadow Hand.

Be in Assassin's Stance or Cloak of Deception. You can do both at once for 5 rounds a day, and you can activate Dual Stances/Cloak Of Deception with a counter.

Edit: Please help. I am thinking about running it in a campaign.

[Ruinix]

Snowbluff great and many thanks men, you won this :D

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fWBRrRP6aww/TZP0PQPOhaI/AAAAAAAAALI/drEPvrRRPyI/s1600/Cookies.jpg

The real challenge wich i fail to said before is to make a competent SS lev 15 to work as front liner with a party of full casters, wich we are a cleric warlock, a druid, a wizard beguiler ultimate mage, (those tier 1) and a sorcer divine oracle (tier 2). So this char is for a newcomer to my actual party, and he ask me some help to make a MONK ¬¬, i guide him to this SS but i have poor experience with ToB chars.

About the small size i will try to change his mind about the humans, cause for some reason he don't like humans for PC ¬¬.

Thanks again Snowbluff for the help :D

[Snowbluff]

Snowbluff great and many thanks men, you won this :D

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fWBRrRP6aww/TZP0PQPOhaI/AAAAAAAAALI/drEPvrRRPyI/s1600/Cookies.jpg

The real challenge wich i fail to said before is to make a competent SS lev 15 to work as front liner with a party of full casters, wich we are a cleric warlock, a druid, a wizard beguiler ultimate mage, (those tier 1) and a sorcer divine oracle (tier 2). So this char is for a newcomer to my actual party, and he ask me some help to make a MONK ¬¬, i guide him to this SS but i have poor experience with ToB chars.

About the small size i will try to change his mind about the humans, cause for some reason he don't like humans for PC ¬¬.

Thanks again Snowbluff for the help :D

Lol, I am talking to a player who wanted to play a monk, but now he's a SS XD