Would this be balanced?

[gooddragon1]

Would it be balanced to allow a character to take more than 5 levels in archmage if they didn't get access to any high arcana?

[Douglas]

Er, High Arcana is pretty much the whole reason for the class's existence, what would be the point of taking it further without that?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I can only see tow reasons to doing this:

1. Arcane Fire does +1d6 damage per Archmage level, and is considerably weaker than just casting an Orb of Energy spell, so why not.

2. The 6th level of any class always grants +1 BAB and +1 to all base saves, unless you're using fractional BAB/saves or the class grants no BAB normally (War Hulk). Conversely, the 5th and 7th level of any class never increases any base saves, so having to stop at the 5th level is a considerable drawback, and if this is the motivation behind wanting more levels then that 7th level will likely go untouched. Considering there's no epic progression for Archmage, I'd say again why not, let him get that 6th level to bump his saves up another point since he already had to suffer through that 5th level.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

As a DM (albeit a very inexperienced one) I would allow it, but I would strongly question why the player wanted to do it. Unless I'm missing something, the only real benefit to the class over taking more levels in the class that got you into archmage in the first place is the ability to gain high arcana. Am I missing something?

EDIT: Biffoniacus_Furiou: That makes some sense, but the benefits still seem so minor that I'd still probably try to talk the player out of it. Still, his character, his choice.

[gooddragon1]

As a DM (albeit a very inexperienced one) I would allow it, but I would strongly question why the player wanted to do it. Unless I'm missing something, the only real benefit to the class over taking more levels in the class that got you into archmage in the first place is the ability to gain high arcana. Am I missing something?

EDIT: Biffoniacus_Furiou: That makes some sense, but the benefits still seem so minor that I'd still probably try to talk the player out of it. Still, his character, his choice.

Actually, I phrased it poorly, I am the one interested in doing it because I want a scaling damage attack. Orb spells don't scale past 15d6.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

So you permanently lose a 9th level spell slot to get Arcane Fire. Then you spend another 9th level spell to deal what, 16d6 damage at Archmage 7? Why not just cast an Empowered Maximized Orb of Energy twice with those two 9th level spell slots?

Forget Arcane Fire even exists. It's not worth using, you're better off just using spells.

[darksolitaire]

But there are plenty of other spells that scale up to 20d6 or 25d6, such as Chain Lightning at 6th and Polar Ray at 7th, and the allmighty Disintegrate that gets up to 40d6 at 6th. Or have you banned Evocation and Transmutation?

Continuing Archmage to get extra d6's of damage would be gimping yourself, so it really isn't unbalanced.

[tyckspoon]

Actually, I phrased it poorly, I am the one interested in doing it because I want a scaling damage attack. Orb spells don't scale past 15d6.

You'd be better off asking if you can ignore the [Epic] tag and take Enhance Spell. +4 metamagic, increases dice cap by 10. Requires Maximize Spell as a prereq, and is one of those things that's Epic for no good reason.

[Terazul]

So you permanently lose a 9th level spell slot to get Arcane Fire. Then you spend another 9th level spell to deal what, 16d6 damage at Archmage 7? Why not just cast an Empowered Maximized Orb of Energy twice with those two 9th level spell slots?

Forget Arcane Fire even exists. It's not worth using, you're better off just using spells.

Or just get like, a reserve feat or something.

EDIT: Though yeah, if your problem is with orb spells "only" going up to 15d6, break out the Twin and Energy Admixture. Or just cast other spells?

[gooddragon1]

Ok, since arcane fire is a no go... what if enhance spell allowed completely breaking the caps on spells it would normally affect? I know that twinned and intensified disintegrate (960 damage) could do better but I'd rather not go that far above the caps abnormally. I just want a nice scaling damage per level deal. That's all.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

What level is your character, and if epic, is epic spellcasting allowed?

[NNescio]

Ok, since arcane fire is a no go... what if enhance spell allowed completely breaking the caps on spells it would normally affect? I know that twinned and intensified disintegrate (960 damage) could do better but I'd rather not go that far above the caps abnormally. I just want a nice scaling damage per level deal. That's all.

Wings of Flurry (RotD) and Maw of Chaos (SpC) both deal uncapped damage. The former is Sorc-only, while the latter is a 9th level spell.

If you have a non-evil alignment, you can use Hammer of Righteousness (BoED), which also does uncapped damage, 'though you will suffer Strength damage. It's basically Wings of Flurry for non-Sorcs.

SpC also has Force Missiles, which can generate an uncapped number of missiles, at one per four caster levels.

How high is your caster level anyway?

[gooddragon1]

Wings of Flurry (RotD) and Maw of Chaos (SpC) both deal uncapped damage. The former is Sorc-only, while the latter is a 9th level spell.

If you have a non-evil alignment, you can use Hammer of Righteousness (BoED), which also does uncapped damage, 'though you will suffer Strength damage. It's basically Wings of Flurry for non-Sorcs.

SpC also has Force Missiles, which can generate an uncapped number of missiles, at one per four caster levels.

How high is your caster level anyway?

2nd level wizard but just planning in advance. Twinned force missiles sounds like exactly what I'm looking for.

On second thought, I'm a neutral good undead character so hammer of righteousness looks even better.