advice on replacing hellhounds with another monster for campaign

[Greyfell]

hey guys, I'm hoping to run Red Hand of Doom here in a few weeks for a group of 5-6 well experienced players who are using mostly tier 3 characters. One thing I've noticed in reading the guide here on the forum is that the hellhounds are 'underwhelming' in the campaign.

the brief suggestions on what to replace them with are... sort of meh to me. Any suggestions on a template to add to them that is flavorful and different, but not gamebreaking? I want them to still be hellhounds, but it'd be nice if my experienced players have a few moments of going "wait... it did WHAT?!" from abilities 'stock' hellhounds don't have.

(the other monsters and such, I have a handle on (hobgobs, etc etc) but for some reason a way to fluff up the hellhounds escapes me. )

[Dusk Eclipse]

Perhap psudonatural (Carc) version? They are great for the W.T.F factor.
Or maybe draconic to show a bit draconic flavour early on?

Also don't forget to play with the feats, perhaps shape souldmeld to give them ridiculous abilities like acid spit.

[Flickerdart]

A creature that breathes fire? Just grab some Red Dragon wyrmlings and refluff them to be hounds.

[golem1972]

Fiendish blink dogs. Same cr, theoretically summonable instead of hell hounds.

Will really mess with players minds if they've read the adventure.

Might want to find a way to give them a breath weapon (maybe shape soulmeld).

[Basket Burner]

I knew even before reading this it was about RHoD.

With that said getting something that is still fundamentally a hell hound but threatening is going to be difficult simply because creatures with minor magical/supernatural abilities are overrated (conversely, those with major magical abilities tend to be underrated, but that's another topic). So you end up with something with weak physical and weak special attacks, and it can only use one of those at a time.

I really don't know any way within the rules to fix this. You could reskin some other enemy, but it would lack key features.

[The Glyphstone]

I knew even before reading this it was about RHoD.


Me too. I've been wrestling with the same thing for my RHoD game, though I have the freedom of being able to upscale the CR a bit to account for it being Pathfinder and a 6-person party.

[Greyfell]

actually, after looking into Dusk Eclipse's suggestion of the draconic template, it looks like it'll serve with a change of feat or two.

the big thing here is the +2 to str and gaining two (small) claw attacks. Switching out a feat for Multiattack gives it decent odds of hitting. Armor goes up a point, save on breath weapon by one point, 4 extra hit points....

minor changes all, but they add up to make it a bit more interesting.

If I keep improved init like I want and sub in multiattack.. is there a third feat that helps/adds more flavor with a now draconic hellhound?

[The Glyphstone]

A metabreath feat, maybe? Their damage is kinda meh, but there are some nice status effects you can apply.

[Basket Burner]

Me too. I've been wrestling with the same thing for my RHoD game, though I have the freedom of being able to upscale the CR a bit to account for it being Pathfinder and a 6-person party.

I've seen a few... interesting things done by various people running that campaign to make the enemies more threatening, as they're really not that big of a deal otherwise. But that's getting off topic.

[Greyfell]

I've seen some odd suggestions to basket... everything from Redspawn arcanists to martial adepts. :) I'll probably use some of the suggestions from the playgrounds guide to the module, but honestly? I doubt I'm taking it as far overboard as some I've seen :)

For one, I don't think I'm going to inflict an enemy ruby knight Win-dicator build on my poor PC's :)

on the hellhounds: I think clinging would be cute... it;'s not going to do much damage at all, but the look on a wizard or other squishy character's face when he realizes he's still burning should be priceless.

[mootoall]

Yeah, their breath weapons don't get used very often anyway, so might as well stack some metabreath on there. Entangling Exhalation, which isn't a metabreath feat at any rate, will make your players unhappy when they realize they have to get into the woods, while on fire, moving over difficult terrain while entangled, all the while being shot up by the hobbo archers.

[Runestar]

Maybe support them with a fireball-tossing caster? This way, their fire immunity comes into play.