My Oh Myke
2011-10-12, 06:42 PM
Hey guys! Long time forum-crawler, first time forum-poster. Whenever I've had D&D-related question for character creation, these forums come up and they're always spot-on for help. You guys and gals here rock, and maybe you can help me put the finishing touches on what I've been working on the past few days.
---
Concept:
I'm a big-time League of Legends junkie these days, and I thought about making a character loosely based on the champion 'Singed.' His main abilities in LoL are a 'sticky bomb' which slow down enemies in the area it's dropped, a fling ability that can toss enemies behind him, the ability to leave a poison trail behind him as he runs around, and a short-term power/cooldown/speed boost via a potion of sorts. For people of a more veteran gaming crowd, Zangief is a close model as well. They do it in different ways, but both characters have a trademark of being able to throw just about anything and anyone (even a T-Rex) (or a Servbot).
Execution:
As the character is rolled now, its a stat-rolled (versus an array or something legal XD) Goliath, Figher level 5, Barbarian level 1, 'Goliath' Level 1 (the level adjustment). Here's how I"m trying to emulate those abilities:
1) Flinging/tossing: I'm using the Rock Thrower and Fling Foe feats from the Races of Stone book. It takes two feats to get the one ability I'd really want to use, but if we ever get out of the dungeon our party's currently stuck in, we're scheduled to make stops to where the Rocks really would be. And if I find this build fun, I'd like to use the idea in other campaigns as well. The limitation on this feat (and this entire build) is that you have to be at least a large-sized character, or your race must be able to fling rocks.
2) 'Stickybomb': Wolftosser (my goliath's nickname) is going to carry Tanglefoot Bags. Lots of 'em. I have *cough* access to many of the books *cough* in one manner or another, but this was really the one item that stuck out to fit the role of slowing down or stopping my enemies so I can chase them down. If they get stuck to the floor, they'll be ripe for flinging into my mob of allies, who can proceed to make short work of the struggling victim. Alternatively, I think I could place the bag on the floor, run up; to an enemy, and throw him onto the tanglefoot bag directly, letting me set up a gank while my allies stay hidden, but I'm not sure if that fits into the mechanics. I haven't played a rogue, so I'm really not too keen on trap-setting mechanics (I don't get to play D&D too often, I live in the country =\), but maybe there are other options there as well.
3) 'Poison Trail'. I got nothin' here. There's not really a good approximation because, duh, they're two vastly different games. Singed uses it to 'kite,' as people who chase him down looking to finish him off get choked and tage damage from the poison trail. There's probably a spell to get this effect, but Goliaths are not great mages, and I need a large creature to be able to fling.
3a) Instead, being a fighter, and a big one, with good HP, I should try to take as many hits as I can instead of letting my flimsy allies take them. I'm using the "Making a Mockery" feat from one of the Dragon Magazines (which we usually prefer to limit access too) as well as bleeding skill points into a cc-Perform skill [another reason for 1 level of Barbarian, better skill points]. This gives me a stronger 'provoke' than the Goad feat, as Mockery -makes- the target run up to me and hit me, and because of how the rules read, I'm able to throw an enemy and then Mock them in the same turn. Throw, make them come to me, throw them again and again. if I can't use Mockery, I'll probably trade it for Goad, though that only means that the target has to melee against me...IF he melees at all.
4) 'Berserk Mode'. This is one reason why I took the one lever of Barbarian -- the rage. In situations where flinging isn't an option (hi2u fellow Large Sized enemy), it's nice to have an ability to pick up my damage output. I won't be able to devote as many feats and such to taking the stronger weapon proficiencies, Power Attack/Cleave, Focus, etc., but being able to focus down one big target in that manner will help. The added movement speed from Barbarian helps give the extra edge in chasing down a ranged character who doesn't want to be front-line, and throwin' him back towards my bruisers.
The inherit flaw I see in this design is that I'm playing a fighter who...well, he's not so great at actual -fighting.- If I grab Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grappling, then I'm not using an Exotic Proficiency feat to take a big bruising weapon (Bastard Sword, for example), I'm not taking Power Attack, and things of that nature. That's where the one level of Barbarian comes into play, but it's still not going to overcome the lack of offensive-minded feats and it comes with a penalty of exhaustion.
If I give up Improved Grappling because I'm a flippin' Zangief and I can throw anything, I'll balance my lack of 'real' combat ability by focusing on Scimitars, taking the Focus + Monkey Grip now and eventually grabbing Power + Improved Criticals. It's not the biggest weapon in the bunch, but I can one-hand a Giant Scimitar for 2d6 damage with a 15-20 x2 threat range. I have a humungo-sized STR bonus thanks to my rolls though. Monkey Grip is -2 to attack and the size difference is another -2. If I didn't have the big STR bonus, I'd probably swap Monkey Grip for the Focus+Focus-like-feat-that-adds-to-damage, and stick with a large-sized Scimitar. Either path gives me access to a nice bit of spike damage without giving up the use of a shield: with me taking hits from Making a Mockery (and probably just by pissing off badguys who are sick of being tossed), I'd like the extra AC. But I'm building this guy to be a grappler, and I'd hate for him to be kinda sucky at both what I wanted his charm and 'hook' to be AND at beating up punks.
Example:
(As I flipped through the PHB to look up a stat array, 3.5 was always based on rolled stats? Huh!) I don't really want this to be based on my lucky dice rolls, so I'll base the example here on a 4.0 array: 16 14 13 13 12 8
Strength: 14 + 4 (Race) = 18 [+4 Mod]
Dexterity: 16 -2 (Race) = 14 [+2]
Constitution: 13 +2 (Race) = 15 [2 Mod]
Intelligence: 12 = 12 [+1]
Wisdom: 8 = 8 [-1]
Charisma: 13 +1 Level = 14 [+2]
Skills (related to my build): Perform (Comedy) 5 (costs 10 skill points total, cross classed) +2 Charisma = +7 for Making a Mockery check. (Versus a Goad, which would be 10 + CHR = 12DC, I will have a higher DC 75% of the time, and the effect is stronger.)
Feats: 6 Total (CL 1, 3, 6, Fighter BF 1, 2, 4)
Rock Throwing
Foe Fling
Power Criticals
Master of Mockery
Improved Unarmed Strike
Improved Grappling
Future Feats: Improved Criticals, Improved Rock Throwing (if our campaign will see the light of day and there will be rocks), Weapon Focus: Scimitar if not. Maybe take Fling Ally too, though combined with my low wisdom..."Dude, why did you fling him into the enemies?" "Look! Now he can sneak on them from behind!" "Dude you flung the wizard! What's he gonna do!? That wasn't a wise thing you did!" "But wizards are wise! They make up for Wolfflingers lack of Wisdom!" *deadpan*
Weapon: Large Scimitar, +10 to attack, 1d8 +4 damage, 18-20 x2
Shield: Large Heavy Shield, +3 to AC (would go Tower, but the -10 to checks scares me, plus I'd prefer to keep my closing ability)
Armor: Chainshirt (+4 to AC, +4 Max Dex more than covers my real stat, +6 AC 'overall'). My rolled stats give me +4 Dex, though even in this example, staying in light armor means I can sleep in it and I don't lose my movement speed. If I was gonna go with heavier armor, I'd only go with Breastplate I think.
Magical Items: Cloak of Charisma (to power my Mockery feat), or Gauntlets of Ogre Strength (more for the +1 to hit if going with a Monkey Grip build than the extra damage).
=====
I saw another race that would be -Wonderously Awesome- with what I want to do, Dracotaur, but the LA is +5 and I'm not so keen on how to do Racial Hit Die + Racial Hit Die Based Feats, and their favored class is Sorcerer, not Barbarian. I'd take an EXP penalty if I split my levels the way I do now, though giving upt he 1 level of Barbarian wouldn't break my flingability, and Dracotaurs get a higher movement speed. Then again, Dracotaurs aren't exactly everywhere, are they? A Goliath in a city by a mountain with a dungeon in it? Plausible. A dracotaur who just so happens to walk up and is like "Hi guys, so I herd u need a Ftr?" Probably not so much...
My real dilemma is with feat selection. I'd dip into Monk instead of Barbarian, which would actually give me one -extra- feat than I have now, AND give me 4 ranks of non-CC Perform. But I'd be taking a 20-40% EXP penalty depending on how I split the levels, and growing unless I level the classes up evenly. That would mean fewer bonus feats if I split, and getting useless Monk abilities since I"d want to wear armor. If I only level Fighter, I'm never going to actually gain EXP. >.>;
That was a lot of reading...any comment and suggestions are more than welcome, and thank you for taking the time to dive into that huge pile of words. I know this is probably not an efficient way of fighting, but the concept intrigues me now that I've been trying to roll it.
---
Concept:
I'm a big-time League of Legends junkie these days, and I thought about making a character loosely based on the champion 'Singed.' His main abilities in LoL are a 'sticky bomb' which slow down enemies in the area it's dropped, a fling ability that can toss enemies behind him, the ability to leave a poison trail behind him as he runs around, and a short-term power/cooldown/speed boost via a potion of sorts. For people of a more veteran gaming crowd, Zangief is a close model as well. They do it in different ways, but both characters have a trademark of being able to throw just about anything and anyone (even a T-Rex) (or a Servbot).
Execution:
As the character is rolled now, its a stat-rolled (versus an array or something legal XD) Goliath, Figher level 5, Barbarian level 1, 'Goliath' Level 1 (the level adjustment). Here's how I"m trying to emulate those abilities:
1) Flinging/tossing: I'm using the Rock Thrower and Fling Foe feats from the Races of Stone book. It takes two feats to get the one ability I'd really want to use, but if we ever get out of the dungeon our party's currently stuck in, we're scheduled to make stops to where the Rocks really would be. And if I find this build fun, I'd like to use the idea in other campaigns as well. The limitation on this feat (and this entire build) is that you have to be at least a large-sized character, or your race must be able to fling rocks.
2) 'Stickybomb': Wolftosser (my goliath's nickname) is going to carry Tanglefoot Bags. Lots of 'em. I have *cough* access to many of the books *cough* in one manner or another, but this was really the one item that stuck out to fit the role of slowing down or stopping my enemies so I can chase them down. If they get stuck to the floor, they'll be ripe for flinging into my mob of allies, who can proceed to make short work of the struggling victim. Alternatively, I think I could place the bag on the floor, run up; to an enemy, and throw him onto the tanglefoot bag directly, letting me set up a gank while my allies stay hidden, but I'm not sure if that fits into the mechanics. I haven't played a rogue, so I'm really not too keen on trap-setting mechanics (I don't get to play D&D too often, I live in the country =\), but maybe there are other options there as well.
3) 'Poison Trail'. I got nothin' here. There's not really a good approximation because, duh, they're two vastly different games. Singed uses it to 'kite,' as people who chase him down looking to finish him off get choked and tage damage from the poison trail. There's probably a spell to get this effect, but Goliaths are not great mages, and I need a large creature to be able to fling.
3a) Instead, being a fighter, and a big one, with good HP, I should try to take as many hits as I can instead of letting my flimsy allies take them. I'm using the "Making a Mockery" feat from one of the Dragon Magazines (which we usually prefer to limit access too) as well as bleeding skill points into a cc-Perform skill [another reason for 1 level of Barbarian, better skill points]. This gives me a stronger 'provoke' than the Goad feat, as Mockery -makes- the target run up to me and hit me, and because of how the rules read, I'm able to throw an enemy and then Mock them in the same turn. Throw, make them come to me, throw them again and again. if I can't use Mockery, I'll probably trade it for Goad, though that only means that the target has to melee against me...IF he melees at all.
4) 'Berserk Mode'. This is one reason why I took the one lever of Barbarian -- the rage. In situations where flinging isn't an option (hi2u fellow Large Sized enemy), it's nice to have an ability to pick up my damage output. I won't be able to devote as many feats and such to taking the stronger weapon proficiencies, Power Attack/Cleave, Focus, etc., but being able to focus down one big target in that manner will help. The added movement speed from Barbarian helps give the extra edge in chasing down a ranged character who doesn't want to be front-line, and throwin' him back towards my bruisers.
The inherit flaw I see in this design is that I'm playing a fighter who...well, he's not so great at actual -fighting.- If I grab Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grappling, then I'm not using an Exotic Proficiency feat to take a big bruising weapon (Bastard Sword, for example), I'm not taking Power Attack, and things of that nature. That's where the one level of Barbarian comes into play, but it's still not going to overcome the lack of offensive-minded feats and it comes with a penalty of exhaustion.
If I give up Improved Grappling because I'm a flippin' Zangief and I can throw anything, I'll balance my lack of 'real' combat ability by focusing on Scimitars, taking the Focus + Monkey Grip now and eventually grabbing Power + Improved Criticals. It's not the biggest weapon in the bunch, but I can one-hand a Giant Scimitar for 2d6 damage with a 15-20 x2 threat range. I have a humungo-sized STR bonus thanks to my rolls though. Monkey Grip is -2 to attack and the size difference is another -2. If I didn't have the big STR bonus, I'd probably swap Monkey Grip for the Focus+Focus-like-feat-that-adds-to-damage, and stick with a large-sized Scimitar. Either path gives me access to a nice bit of spike damage without giving up the use of a shield: with me taking hits from Making a Mockery (and probably just by pissing off badguys who are sick of being tossed), I'd like the extra AC. But I'm building this guy to be a grappler, and I'd hate for him to be kinda sucky at both what I wanted his charm and 'hook' to be AND at beating up punks.
Example:
(As I flipped through the PHB to look up a stat array, 3.5 was always based on rolled stats? Huh!) I don't really want this to be based on my lucky dice rolls, so I'll base the example here on a 4.0 array: 16 14 13 13 12 8
Strength: 14 + 4 (Race) = 18 [+4 Mod]
Dexterity: 16 -2 (Race) = 14 [+2]
Constitution: 13 +2 (Race) = 15 [2 Mod]
Intelligence: 12 = 12 [+1]
Wisdom: 8 = 8 [-1]
Charisma: 13 +1 Level = 14 [+2]
Skills (related to my build): Perform (Comedy) 5 (costs 10 skill points total, cross classed) +2 Charisma = +7 for Making a Mockery check. (Versus a Goad, which would be 10 + CHR = 12DC, I will have a higher DC 75% of the time, and the effect is stronger.)
Feats: 6 Total (CL 1, 3, 6, Fighter BF 1, 2, 4)
Rock Throwing
Foe Fling
Power Criticals
Master of Mockery
Improved Unarmed Strike
Improved Grappling
Future Feats: Improved Criticals, Improved Rock Throwing (if our campaign will see the light of day and there will be rocks), Weapon Focus: Scimitar if not. Maybe take Fling Ally too, though combined with my low wisdom..."Dude, why did you fling him into the enemies?" "Look! Now he can sneak on them from behind!" "Dude you flung the wizard! What's he gonna do!? That wasn't a wise thing you did!" "But wizards are wise! They make up for Wolfflingers lack of Wisdom!" *deadpan*
Weapon: Large Scimitar, +10 to attack, 1d8 +4 damage, 18-20 x2
Shield: Large Heavy Shield, +3 to AC (would go Tower, but the -10 to checks scares me, plus I'd prefer to keep my closing ability)
Armor: Chainshirt (+4 to AC, +4 Max Dex more than covers my real stat, +6 AC 'overall'). My rolled stats give me +4 Dex, though even in this example, staying in light armor means I can sleep in it and I don't lose my movement speed. If I was gonna go with heavier armor, I'd only go with Breastplate I think.
Magical Items: Cloak of Charisma (to power my Mockery feat), or Gauntlets of Ogre Strength (more for the +1 to hit if going with a Monkey Grip build than the extra damage).
=====
I saw another race that would be -Wonderously Awesome- with what I want to do, Dracotaur, but the LA is +5 and I'm not so keen on how to do Racial Hit Die + Racial Hit Die Based Feats, and their favored class is Sorcerer, not Barbarian. I'd take an EXP penalty if I split my levels the way I do now, though giving upt he 1 level of Barbarian wouldn't break my flingability, and Dracotaurs get a higher movement speed. Then again, Dracotaurs aren't exactly everywhere, are they? A Goliath in a city by a mountain with a dungeon in it? Plausible. A dracotaur who just so happens to walk up and is like "Hi guys, so I herd u need a Ftr?" Probably not so much...
My real dilemma is with feat selection. I'd dip into Monk instead of Barbarian, which would actually give me one -extra- feat than I have now, AND give me 4 ranks of non-CC Perform. But I'd be taking a 20-40% EXP penalty depending on how I split the levels, and growing unless I level the classes up evenly. That would mean fewer bonus feats if I split, and getting useless Monk abilities since I"d want to wear armor. If I only level Fighter, I'm never going to actually gain EXP. >.>;
That was a lot of reading...any comment and suggestions are more than welcome, and thank you for taking the time to dive into that huge pile of words. I know this is probably not an efficient way of fighting, but the concept intrigues me now that I've been trying to roll it.