Boss Fight (For the Horde, DON'T READ)

[Babale]

My PCs are currently in a mountain pass. There's white-out conditions, and they're in a valley about fifty feet wide with cliffs on either end. I figure that this is the perfect place for a boss fight, especially since I want them to level up soon.

The party is composed of six characters, ECL around 5. There's a wizard/rogue, a pure wizard, a druid, one mega-ac dex fighter, one fighter/orc paragon, and one paladin. They are aided by an ogre and a trip-focused hobgoblin fighter.

This seems to me like a tough group... There's eight of them, plus the druid's companion. They're all stronger than normal characters of their level, thanks too buffs to all the races that I gave them. So I want to challenge them. My current plan is to have them be attacked by a Roc and a White Dragon. Now, my questions...

1) What age category can the White Dragon be without dominating the party?
2) What sort of backstory can you guys come up with for a dragon and a roc working together? I have some ideas, but I want to see what the playground can come up with.
3) What interesting tactics/maneuvers can the monsters pull to make this fight exciting and memorable?

[hex0]

how about coming together to spawn some half-dragon rocs? Makes sense to me.

[Babale]

This is a bit of a random encounter, so... should the spawn be part of the encounter? Or an optional sidequest?

[hex0]

This is a bit of a random encounter, so... should the spawn be part of the encounter? Or an optional sidequest?

Would make a great revenge encounter for another adventure, too. Sky is the limit. :smallwink:

[Medic!]

A dragon and a roc sounds like a rough dilema, too old on the dragon and fear saves aren't made, too young and there's no more challenge than a dire wolf.

I'd eye-ball it based on the save DCs of the dragon's frightful presence and breath weapon vs likelyhood of your PCs hitting the mark (would it take an 11 on the die? 12? 15? How hard do you want it to be?)

I think it was MM3(?) that has a cool cold-type critter CR(5) called a Rejkar that was a pretty decent challenge for my over-sized party. The roc itself is a CR8, the youngest white dragon with a frightful presence (DC17) is a young adult, CR8. Adults are CR10 with a DC20.

If your PCs are on the ball enough to be plowing through two CR8s at a once at Lvl 5, my hat's off to you and each of them! Sounds like an intense fight on the horizon!

(edit) Could be the dragon lost it's hatchling to adventurers and adopted a lost baby roc to raise as her own? I could envision either some pilot to bombadier strafing runs or (and this part I really giggle at) a Roc landing in front of the party and trying to belch a cone of cold at them in the surprise round!

[Siosilvar]

If they're all stronger than normal, I'd add 1 level to their party level, another 2-3 for there being twice as many as normal, 3 more for a boss fight...

You can probably get away with an Adult white dragon, but I'd go with Young Adult to be on the safe side - they're still 5th level, after all, even if there are tons of them, because breath weapons and fear can be very damaging to large parties.

As for story... the roc is an animal, but is bigger and stronger than the dragon. There's probably a charm or dominate animal effect in play here. The dragon got some sort of item (druid dragon?) and picked something large and also flying to help do whatever dragons do - hunting, running interference for treasure grabs, that sort of thing.
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Tactics... Playing them to their full capacity will destroy the PCs, since they can outfly anything the PCs might come up with (80ft per round is fast, let alone 200ft per round) and have tons of health and damage capacity.

The dragon can spider climb on ice (and fly, obviously) and has fog cloud as a spell-like. The roc has the Snatch, Wingover, and Flyby Attack feats. The dragon opens with a pass-over to get fear in play, tosses a fog cloud, then goes and sits on a cliff face while the roc picks up whatever's below one at a time and brings it up to the dragon. The dragon doesn't have to fly around, and the roc gets most of the pain. This probably won't make for a memorable fight, though, since the dragon isn't really involved.

If you make the dragon a druid, then I'm sure there are some low-level spells to do neat things with ice and snow - probably in Frostburn, but you might have luck with Spell Compendium, too. Play up the breath weapon and those effects, fluff its fog clouds as kicked-up snow from it flying nearby. Have it fly around and generally do impressive stuff while the roc does the real fighting - maybe have it avoid using Snatch except to pick whatever PCs are flying out of the air, and use that Flyby Attack a lot (but without getting too far out of range - the PCs need to be able to fight back!).

My new recommendation for the dragon is this: Juvenile white dragon druid 5 (CR ~8), using a Periapt of Wisdom to be able to cast. Play up the periapt - it pulses with energy whenever the dragon casts a spell. If they manage to get it off the dragon, it loses the ability to cast spells above 1st level. Have the roc go beserk and attack the dragon (handwave the fact that the dominate would actually stay in effect).

That should give you an EL of 10-11, which is doable for a double-sized party of level 5s. Just make sure to not focus both creatures on the same party member, or you'll probably find yourself killing them off.

[Chained Birds]

The dragon (Let's call him Romeo) could be the "ruler" of this area and may attempt to use just his meer presence to scare the group away (DC20 sounds fun). After a brief exchange of "GET OFF MY MOUNTAIN! RAWR!!!" and the PC's common rebutle of "No." The battle can start. But the PC's might be able to Diplomacy a way past Romeo without battle (Or simply to stall long enough to remove the fear). If that fails, and the battle begins to look in the PC's favor, the dragon would roar summoning his Roc cohort (named Kiss) to dive-bomb the most visible theat and start pt.2 of an awesomely tough battle. Though PC and dice sillyness may result in a different outcome...

Edit: I like the Dragon-druid thing! Just make the Roc its animal companion.

[Babale]

Well, White Dragons are the most bestial dragons, aren't they? I was hoping to play him that way, as a savage blood-thirsty barbarian...

[jguy]

You could play the White Dragon like a opportunistic scavenger who follows the Roc around to pick off meals. Roc flies in to get a meal, causes general mayhem, and when the party is beating it back, suddenly RAWR, Dragon flies in to attack the most damaged party member. You could give it a single level of Barbarian to make it even more raging and bloodthirsty.

[Runestar]

A roc is cr9. Seems way too tough for the PCs. :smalleek:

Maybe this article might be of some help? Instead of a roc, use a winter wolf instead.

[Kol Korran]

first of all, a general suggestion- Boss fight should usually be set in the story/ game/ situation. Boss fights are NOT just tough fights, they should have soem relevance, some build up, some meaning. Boss fights are the most likely to kill PCs, and if so- it should be for a good reason, and not just- "this big tough monster came out of nowhere!"

that said, an interesting approach might be a Boss fight that is the START of an adventure.

though instead the start of your log (can't find it now), the party are level 5. and you're using two tough monsters (CR 10.5 as some have mentioned). this may mean two things- most likely high casualties, and action economy problem for the monsters. i suggest splitting it to more monsters, and weaker ones.

some ideas, in no particular order:
- 2 winter wolves with a half fiend winter wolf, who serve the young adult dragon. (CR 10.5 i think) they are all on a general patrol of the area for some (insert secret group here) that hides in the area. the winter wolf gained his powers through the group, and the dragon does this for loot.

the winter wolves track the party and communicate with howls (some through the air?) have the group be tracked for quite some time... let the panic sneak in. if they are followed they either sneak away in the snow, or they ambush the unlucky 1-2 people who come after them. the dragon has no spells at this age, so i suggest to just have him use his fear, and then more than less tear into them, trying to use as many attacks as possible. the half fiedn should try and use his darkness to cause more confusion, and perhaps unholy blight once he is in their center. on the whole, the whole group acts like a sort of wolf pack, herding the characters from all sides, blasting them with breath weapons (to which the yare immune) andthen just trip, tear and more.

- Hot and cold: Dragon and Rhemoraz: (CR 9.5) there is a crucial point (a deep canyon) under which' floor a remhoraz waits, and works in concert with the dragon. the two just found they work better to gether than apart. as the dragon drops from the sly in front (or from a hidey place), the rhemoraz burst in between the party members, hopefully at the soft ones...

- Mommy rock and two juvenile dragons: (10.5) the rock fought and barely managed to kill a white dragon at the past, but not before the drago ndestroyed her eggs and mate. so she took over the dragons' egges and raised the little dragons as her children. at first mom attacks to soften the meal (snatch... up high... drop... splat) but as situation goes tough, the dragons (who are hiding) jumps in with cries of "mom! raaawwrr!" and so on. probably not a fight to the finish.

- the ghoslty guardian. a young adult (or even juvenile) ghostly dragon (draconmicon): (10 or 8) the party find some ancient alter at the entrance of some cave (or in the cave), or the entrance of of a path through a canyon or such. it warns not to anger "spirit of winter". as the party passes (or does something else) the weather intensifies, a small blizzard. a ghostly apparition appears with all the "who goes there? non shall pass" or whatever. the party might give some sacrifice (on the dragon's hoard) to pass, but... i guess most won't. which is when the battle begins- incorporealty, the usual draconing powers, being undead and the special ghost dragons' breath (DRAIN to str, dex AND con) will make this memorable, if perhaps deadly.

perhaps not exactly what you were looking for. but i hope it helps. but i can't stress enough my first comment. Boss fights should not be random. IMHO. good luck, i'll be looking forward reading about this!

[Babale]

I love the idea of the mommy roc raising two babies. How old should I make them though?

In addition, assuming that they'd been isolated from other dragons for their entire lives, how smart should they act? Rocs have 2 int, which makes them smart, but still animals.... Should I play them as dragons who honestly believe they are rocs?

[Kol Korran]

how old? Juvenile at most (will still make a tough encounter), perhaps less. i's assume they are VERY coordinated with one another (if there are any feats)

how intelligent? interesting question. i don't think they'd think they are rocs- they can see each other, and know of their immunitiy to cold, more claws, breath weapon and such. i think they know they are... different, but still loyal to the mother. (which is much bigger and impressive. they still act as her children i'd hazard.

do they know speech? i suggest yes, but in a far less developed way than most dragons do. 2-3 words basic sentences: "want it!" "it hurts bad!" "ha! it dies!" "mommy come help!" and so on... (they may have found/tortured humanoids as toys to try and learn how to speak a bit, before they got bored and killed them!

i suggest to try and build the dragons a bit differently (different feats, perhaps different skills. maybe you could play with the abilities a bit- one is faster, the other is stronger?) and play them differently, both in battle tactics (one prefers to fly and use breath weapon, the other gets into melee fast) but also play them differently, and have them bicker when they just join the fight, but become fiercly protective if one is injured badly (like family... well, some families)

if you really want to make the different, give them 1 class level each one should go with barbarian (for rage), and the other a spell caster, either sorcerer or druid. (the more cautious one). if you do so, maybe it would be wise to lower the age in one degree.

the battle should go something like this i think:
- mom swoops of the sky, gets attacked a bit, but try to swoop a person, and drop it on a ledge (where the dragons await, pass the player a note describing what happens, and let him/ her play it on the side, with you maybe describing to the players. at least till they know)

- the PC on the ledge tries to escape (if not dead) either by jumping or climbing down or using magic (or perhaps trying to deal with the dragons? :smallconfused: ) meanwhile mom tries to make another pass. taking time to circle to position should give the PCs a few rounds to prepare. hopefully they can prevent another swooping. if they can't, bad for them.

- i expect the PCs to find some way to dish out nice damage to mom, when she shrieks, and the younglings get alarmed, and fly down to meet the party.

- mom takes another circling, noticing her young have now engged she returns to the battle, trying to swoop up protected targets while the two dragons try to fight the battle off.

- as soon as ANY gets to 1/3 or 1/4 hp, they all try to retreat, the more healthy ones trying to occupy the party enough to let the rest of the family get away.

how does that sound? (note: i don't know your party's abilities, but this looks like quite a tough encounter for 8 5th level characters. :smalleek:

Kol.

Also, can you tell me one of your characters unique names? (something simple enough to remember though) i want to find the thread and read on the further escapades. last i remember they were in the prison breaking out?

[Babale]

Pc names? Try Gal'Din.