Vivisectionist Alchemist

[Laniius]

I'm going to be playing one, and I have one question: has anyone ever used Torturous Transformation? If so, how? For those who aren't privy,

At 7th level, a vivisectionist adds anthropomorphic animal to his formula book as a 2nd-level extract. When he uses this extract, he injects it into an animal as part of a 2-hour surgical procedure. By using multiple doses of this extract as part of the surgery, he multiplies the duration by the number of extracts used.

At 9th level, a vivisectionist adds awaken and baleful polymorph to his formula book as 3rd-level extracts. When he uses the awaken or baleful polymorph extract, he injects it into the target (not a plant) as part of a 24-hour surgical procedure. He can make anthropomorphic animal permanent on a creature by spending 7,500 gp.

At 15th level, a vivisectionist adds regenerate to his formula book as a 5th-level extract.

It doesn't replace anything (the vivisectionist exchanges sneak attack for bombs); I just can't think of a use for it outside of mad-scientist fluff. Don't get me wrong, I like fluff, I just can't figure out when I'd actually USE this. It doesn't sound like a pleasant procedure, and the animal will not be under my control, so it will just make things want to eat me even more, but unable to due to their puny puny hands.


The regenerate at level 15 is nice though.

[awa]

its a lousy ability in my opinion i think the only reason its in their is someone really liked the island of doctor Monroe (i think that's what it was called)
they don't get any proficiency so the fact that they have hands doesn't help much

[bugburr]

Actually, the awaken spell states that whatever you cast it on "serves you in specific tasks or endeavors if you communicate your desires to it." So basically, you can control it. And an anthropomorphic awakened animal would also be cool, but I'm not sure if you can actually do that.
But yeah, that's mostly fluff I guess, the main thing you get is SA instead of bombs.

[Larpus]

Yeah, it's just flavor, but as pointed out: it's freaking free!!

It means that, as long as you find some use for it, you're already a winner!

For example, Anthropomorphic Animal can be made into a decent packmule/bodyguard, after all, a bite attack can be powerful enough for the job and it keeps its abilities as long as they don't depend on claws (wolf's trip comes to mind) and it's not hard to fool/convince a 3 Int creature when you have 16+ yourself, plus, it's quite cheap as long as you've been "harvesting" your enemies' thumbs.

Later on, when you can make it permanent, it's pretty much a cohort that doesn't cost you a feat (though it does cost you money) and is very likely more loyal, since it's not mentioned that the creature change its behavior. It can even take class levels since it's intelligent enough (it could before, but seeing as it would be gone in some hours, that'd be rather pointless).

Awaken by RAW ends up a bit of a mixed bag, yes, it allows for a loyal cohort that is more intelligent than the one above and costs considerably less, however, by RAW both can't be combed together on a creature, since Awaken doesn't affect animals with 3 or more Int and Anthropomorphic doesn't affect magical beasts. Bottom line, the awakened creature is still just an animal, so unless you use it on a monkey, ape or something, it's not going to be that incredible I guess (still, having a team of ninja cats would be awesome...then you start making pizza).

That said, it seems fairly clear that Alchemists are supposed to do just that, given their (otherwise) arbitrary restrictions of it being unable to affect plants, so if I were the DM, I'd handweave it away as long as there's no abuse involved (but from the top of my head, there's no animal where this would be so incredible it's broken).

As for the mandatory "but the creature will hate you for the procedure", it's not stated anywhere it's a painful procedure and even so, you're a freaking Alchemist, just sedate the damn thing for the surgery. And chug an Alter Self extract two doses of Disguise Self extracts, use heavy perfume, Vocal Alteration in case you need to speak and use a mask to conceal your face for good measure, so it worse comes to worse, it "wasn't you".

[awa]

yheah but you need an animal first and a regular wolf is just as good as an anthromorphic wolf so why waste 2 hours and a spell slot changing it for 1hr a level.
awakens not terrible but unlike a druid you dont have a lot of synergy with having an animal freind.

also i dont think you can stack them becuase i think they both change the creature type

also its called Torturous Transformation and lasts 24 hours implying that it's pretty painful not to mention you have grossly altered the creatures natural form something it probaly wouldent enjoy very much. and as far as i know their is no pain killer spell on the alchmist spell list.

[Larpus]

yheah but you need an animal first and a regular wolf is just as good as an anthromorphic wolf so why waste 2 hours and a spell slot changing it for 1hr a level.
awakens not terrible but unlike a druid you dont have a lot of synergy with having an animal freind.

also i dont think you can stack them becuase i think they both change the creature type

also its called Torturous Transformation and lasts 24 hours implying that it's pretty painful not to mention you have grossly altered the creatures natural form something it probaly wouldent enjoy very much. and as far as i know their is no pain killer spell on the alchmist spell list.
Well, the main reason to turn anything into the anthropomorphic version is so it's easier to communicate and ability to follow a bit more complex orders. Also remember that at 7th level, when you get such spell it lasts for 7 hours out of the box or 21 (28 if you also spend your 3rd level slot) if you spend all your castings on that, that's more than enough to make some use out of it (a disposable scout maybe?).

Anthropomorphic Animal by RAW doesn't change the creature type, so it's still an animal, but it does raise its Int to above what Awaken can affect. But if you were to drain that pesky 1 point of Int, then the problem would go away by RAW.

Well, there is Polypurpose Panacea, but that doesn't last for long enough. But it's not crazy to think that an Alchemist would be able to create an anesthetic with Craft (alchemy) and minister it through Heal (on in your case Knowledge (nature)), especially on such brutal and extensive surgeries.

It's not RAW, but only because no one bothered to think about it.

And yeah, if Druids or other animal-speaking weird nature people are around, your abilities are severely diminished.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and there's always CLW.

[awa]

just becuase the wound gets healed dosent mean having your organs rearanged with a knife dosent hurt

[Zaq]

Regarding anesthesia, I haven't played PF, but don't Alchemists get a lot of poisons? Surely drow knockout juice (or some equivalent) still exists?

[awa]

sleep is normally disrupted by pain such as having a knife stuck in you also the vivisectionist needs to slice at the animal for 24 hours which will exceed the duration of most sleep effects.

[Zaq]

Speaking again from 3.5, it doesn't say you're asleep. It says you're unconscious. The chemicals are interfering with your brain in such a way that you won't wake up, even if you're getting metal things jabbed into you. You know, like real anesthesia.

[Lateral]

its a lousy ability in my opinion i think the only reason its in their is someone really liked the island of doctor Monroe (i think that's what it was called)
they don't get any proficiency so the fact that they have hands doesn't help much

Moreau. The character's name is Dr. Moreau.

(Although you do get props for knowing about H.G Wells beyond just War of the Worlds and The Time Machine.)

[Larpus]

Well, it's usually accepted (at least in the tables I frequent) that healing HP damage does relieve the pain, even on a very bad injury, only a very minor sting and a scar remain, but with a Heal check (and the necessary time and conditions to actually pay attention to what you're doing), you can cure the pain itself and leave no scar. It's a house-rule, I know, but if you are to use that ability, might as well suggest to your DM (and it makes sense, given that the Vivisectionist uses Knowledge (nature) instead of Heal).

Other than that, the Alchemist can make use of Drow Poison (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/poison/drow-poison), multiple doses if necessary, the victim falls unconscious, not asleep, and as such doesn't wake up upon damage. Again, as a house-rule, if you take any poison and surgically insert into the victim, it either gets a massive deduction to make the save or simply there is no save.

You can use the disguise option as I suggested before, the animal has only Int 2, even if it grows to 18 after the procedure, while it was being performed the animal simply didn't have enough Int to absorb so much information and, as such, very unlikely to even notice that you're the same person that did the procedure.

You can also talk to the creature, after all, as much pain as it suffered, it's considerably better now (you got hands!), so it shouldn't be hard to convince it that what you did was beneficial to it, despite the pain (supposing your DM doesn't allow for any of the above methods of bypassing it). This is specially easy to do with a loyal dog, who will do anything for his master, after that, the same dog can help convince less friendly animals.

And, worse comes to worse, Alchemists can make drugs (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/drugs), which cause addiction. Give it to the animal/group in question and get them addicted, do the procedure and give the drugs as payment for a job well done.

If none of that do it for you or you still think they're completely worthless, simply use it as a poor man's speak with animals in groups where there is no nature guy. If the DM says that the animal doesn't remember anything from before his Int changed, then congrats, he just handwaved away the problem of the animals having issues with you.

[Ravens_cry]

Moreau. The character's name is Dr. Moreau.

(Although you do get props for knowing about H.G Wells beyond just War of the Worlds and The Time Machine.)
The Simpsons did a Treehouse episode based on it and the movies, it's not that unknown. I own all three, they are still quite readable in their way.
Even though surgery does not work that way, it wouldn't affect the young for example, it adds so much to the horror of the work that I accept it for storytelling purposes.

[Lateral]

The Simpsons did a Treehouse episode based on it and the movies, it's not that unknown. I own all three, they are still quite readable in their way.
Even though surgery does not work that way, it wouldn't affect the young for example, it adds so much to the horror of the work that I accept it for storytelling purposes.

Oh, really? I haven't seen that one. Cool.