Druid vs Wizard Lich

[gamma]

Hi! I apologize in advance for typo and mistakes, english is not my language.
My question is: how can I prepare at best my druid character, to fight in duel a wizard lich? The lich is not a npc but a pc, a party member.
Details:
My pc is a human, Druid 13.
Feats: Combat casting, improved initiative, Spell Focus (conjuration), Agument Summoning, Ashbound (Eberron Campaign Setting).
Notable magic items: Wild armor, Bead of Karma, Boots +5 ST, club summon nature ally V as standard action 1/day.
The lich (my friend’s pc): elf lich, Wizard 11. The template he used is the one from Libris Mortis, the non-evil lich, so he has +5 level adjustment. Feats I remember: he’s trying to become archmage so he has some spell focus, skill focus (spellcraft), weapon focus (ray), precise shot and point blank shot, etc…
We use core 3.5 rules, but we can introduce new feats or spells, etc… And we can retrain feats.
As players, we would not fight, but our pc hate each other so much… We are not in the party together at the moment, but we’ll meet again around 15th level. I don’t know what will happen, but I want be prepared. I have allies in my party, so maybe I will not fight alone, but I want be prepared even for a duel.
I know, druid is not so fitted for duels, but he will have 5 caster level less than me. I need defense from his spells and I need a quick way to “kill him”. I don’t have save or die spells, summons are slow (I’ll take rapid spell feat) and grapple him is useless (teleport). So…?

[gkathellar]

First of all, ask your DM if you can trade in one of your feats for Natural Spell. Spellcasting is really good, wildshape is really good, and spellcasting while using wildshape is really, really good. (You probably want to get rid of Combat Casting for the trade, which is pretty awful.)

And druids are very, very well suited for duels if you use them right — which is to say, turn into an animal and alternate between helping your animal companion maul your opponent and casting spells while your animal companion mauls your opponent. If you get time to buff and cast spells before the duel begins, use it to wildshape and cast buffing spells to share with your Animal Companion using share spell.

[Randomguy]

Look up a few wildshape forms that can bypass the liche's damage reduction, and prepare at least a few combat spells each day that bypass his energy resistances/immunities. Get some expendable magic items like staffs filled with either combat spells, abjurations, and one with greater dispel magic, and save them specifically for the fight.

[mootoall]

What books are available to you? Because I'm pretty sure that druids have some pretty handy spells for this kinda thing in SpC. His loss of caster levels really hits him where it hurts, 'cause with a -5 he'll be casting spells three levels lower than you. His low HP for being undead will also hinder him greatly, so you've got that in your favor.

[ClothedInVelvet]

If I recall correctly, liches have DR /magic and bludgeoning. So you'll want to make sure you have a way for your animal companion to get around that. Either something with bludgeoning damage or magically enhanced natural weapons.

A spell like sunbeam will be a beautiful way to repeatedly abuse the fact that he's undead. That comes with its advantages... and its disadvantages.

Remember he has a phylactery and will come back to life if you don't find it and smash it into little tiny pieces. Unless that's part of your plan.

[gamma]

First of all, ask your DM if you can trade in one of your feats for Natural Spell. Spellcasting is really good, wildshape is really good, and spellcasting while using wildshape is really, really good. (You probably want to get rid of Combat Casting for the trade, which is pretty awful.)
Sorry i've forgot to write it. I have natural spell.


And druids are very, very well suited for duels if you use them right — which is to say, turn into an animal and alternate between helping your animal companion maul your opponent and casting spells while your animal companion mauls your opponent. If you get time to buff and cast spells before the duel begins, use it to wildshape and cast buffing spells to share with your Animal Companion using share spell.
I don't think a physical approach would work... Teleport, displacement, or simply greater invisibility... He's got lot of ways to avoid fighting (anyway it's true that if he cast those spell, he doesn't cast attack spells...)


prepare at least a few combat spells each day that bypass his energy resistances/immunities.
Sunbeam or Flame strike. Lightning storm+Air elemental would not work...


Get some expendable magic items like staffs filled with either combat spells, abjurations, and one with greater dispel magic, and save them specifically for the fight.
I was thinking about rod of absorbition... But it's really expensive.


What books are available to you?
We play core, but we can propose spells, feats or classes.

[ClothedInVelvet]

Sorry i've forgot to write it. I have natural spell.

To be fair, you shouldn't have to mention it. It's assumed.


I don't think a physical approach would work... Teleport, displacement, or simply greater invisibility... He's got lot of ways to avoid fighting (anyway it's true that if he cast those spell, he doesn't cast attack spells...)

That's perfect. Every round he's using a spell to avoid your animal companion, that's 1 round he fails. He may get away from your animal companion, but he's not doing anything worthwhile. If he's smart, he might just kill your animal companion, so make sure you buff to some extent.

As for your shape, you'll want to use Wild Shape. By level 15 you can turn into a very wide variety of things that only add to your array of options. It's always better to have more options than fewer.

[Calanon]

This fight depends on how familiar he is with playing as a Lich.
(Yes, playing as a Lich can be substantially different than playing as a regular wizard with a mortal life span)

The biggest problem with being a Wizard is we are vulnerable during a specific time of the day (when they prepare spells) so it would seem logical to attack when he is the most vulnerable, however he intern has something special in his touch attack and paralyzing touch while your character is at rest and thus more vulnerable than he would be even if he was preparing spells (Your asleep AND you need to prepare your spells) so think logically in your ways to approach this conflict.

1. prepare as many anti-undead spells as possible (Heal would pretty much auto kill him if you get the chance)

2. make sure he hasn't prepared spells yet

3. this is the most important as it completely removes the problem of the lich. Destroying its Phylactery. Even at epic level this can prove difficult for any PC because a smart Lich hides his phylactery in the first place people will look... which is often a place that will kill them if they even try to get to it (Most likely a Major Negative Energy Plane). However if he was an idiot and decided to hide it in a stupid place that you can actually get to a simply scry-n-die tactic will work to kill the Lich.

[Flickerdart]

Actually, Druids, as divine casters, don't need the 8 hours of sleep in order to prepare spells, and even when they're preparing spells, their companions are keeping guard. Meanwhile, the Lich still needs 8 hours of uninterrupted rest or he can't prepare spells, so just hound him all night, let him throw up his defenses and flee, then continue tracking him.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Fire Seeds (berry bombs) + Unguent of Timelessness + Metamagic Rod of Empower Spell and Bead of Karma, spend a few weeks making a pile of those, set the detonation word as an eagle screech. Put them all into a pouch and attach it to a loop of string that you can hang across two branches so it hangs open, and after you wild shape you can put your head through it to carry it around your neck.

Cast Energy Immunity (fire) from Spell Compendium on yourself. Wild Shape into a Dire Eagle from Races of Stone, or just an ordinary Eagle if that's not permissible. Cast targeted Greater Dispel Magic on your opponent as often as necessary to remove his buffs.

Fly adjacent to him and detonate the Fire Seeds. He takes thousands of damage.

[Hazzardevil]

I have a question about this fight, will you be attacking him first or will he attack you?
You attacking him will give you a huge advantage over him, but him attacking you gives him nothing but a standard action ahead of you. I think you should try to seize the initiative, if you have to be willing to start at level 14, he will be less likely to expect it and he will be deprived of another level of spells that will likely just let him get away from you better.

Also, how much does he know about your character? Your animal companion? Your Gear?

If he doesn't know what your companion is, then I reccomend you wildshape yourself into an animal then summon copies of that animal so he has no way of knowing which to aim for, this can be a nuisance, better still, polymorph your animal companion into something strong, wildshape into that and summon more copies. Your strength is giving your opponent decisions on which target to choose, make it less likely he knows which is which.

[Eldest]

Polymorph your animal companion into you, and keep wildshaped/polymorphed into the animal's shape. If you can, use Awaken if you can to get a third animal that could look like the animal companion and keep wildshaped into a "pet" sparrow or such.

[Claudius Maximus]

For overcoming his DR, remember that bite attacks deal bludgeoning damage. Many people overlook that. So a literal Magic Fang attack should be enough to bite through to his delicious nougatty lich center.

I recommend against the Fire Seeds trick, since it is almost arbitrarily large damage given prep time, and is thus unlikely to go over well in a real game. That said, Resist Energy (Fire) should be enough to protect you - you don't have to spring for immunity.

As for the defensive illusions, you can cast True Seeing. I don't see why this is a problem, other than perhaps the time it takes to get it running. Even then you'd be just as behind as he is, since he also wasted an action casting the illusion(s). You're actually likely ahead since he has fewer spell slots to work with.

In case he tries to escape, I recommend a means to get Dimensional Anchor or Dimensional Lock. Failing that, a means to keep him from speaking (he will have a hard time Silencing his teleportation effects). Ultimately, readied action damage dealing spells (especially the likes of Sunbeam) and grapple checks can be effective as well, since he has no constitution score and will probably have only +15 or so on Concentration rolls is he dumped Cha like a good wizard. In the end he should be quite delicate if you can actually hit him. I'd estimate about 87 HP.

[olentu]

Hmmm I may have missed this but what is the opponents alignment. If it is an extreme one you could always word of balance him. With +5 LA you might be able to swing the +10 CL insta gib.

[Calanon]

Actually, Druids, as divine casters, don't need the 8 hours of sleep in order to prepare spells, and even when they're preparing spells, their companions are keeping guard. Meanwhile, the Lich still needs 8 hours of uninterrupted rest or he can't prepare spells, so just hound him all night, let him throw up his defenses and flee, then continue tracking him.

Oh thats just sex on a stick...

Yeah Druid you got this xD of course I'm not calling this fight just yet, i wanna know how the Lich reacts xD if he dies he was probably a bad wizard anyway >_>

The best thing a Lich can have over anybody is there ability to prepare things and act accordingly; If they lose a fight its ok, they return to there phylactery (even knowing your fighting a Lich requires a knowledge religion check unless the DM rules otherwise) and come back and kill you later. I can see nothing short of the Lich being retarded and having people help him become a Lich as a flaw (as to where he should have killed you all first chance he got) of course nothing is stopping the Lich from preparing a special spell called Evil Weather (Violet Rain, 1 minute casting time, which if he's smart would do it in the general area instead of right next to the druid) from nuking your Divine Magic for the rest of the day as to where he can just fly at you at break neck speed and just slaughter you... of course this is if he's smart enough to know how to break people who like to spam heal at undead C:

[Snowbluff]

Wait, 11th level, -5 for LA, dude, he only has 6 HD!!!! Use a Bone Talisman spell to make a turning focus, and blow him to kingdom come!

Roflmao:smallbiggrin:

Edit: I think liches have +2 turning resist, at 15 he's at a meager 12 HD. Meanwhile, You'll be able to turn 2d6+Druid Level (15) + Charisma Mod of undead. Even if he won't explode, he's screwed. Greater Magic Fang on your Animal Pimp's bite attack will ignore his DR. I'd suggest getting a Rod of Bodily Restoration so you can repair Str dmg caused by using Luminous Armor form the BoED. Cat's grace on your pet will increase his AC a bit to avoid ray spells.

Superior Resistance from the SC will help too, as well as the Vigor line of spells.

Too bad he probably won't willingly be trapped in a Rejuv Cocoon...

EDIT2: Spam Sunbeam, while your pet grapples him. I heard Reflex saves are hard when you can not move. I suggest enlarge animal, and a Dire Bear animal companion.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Step 1: Boost your touch attack bonuses of your Animal Companion and of your self.
Step 2: Buff both of your movements so you have at least Good fly speed and preferably at least 70 ft. per round
Step 3: Standard protections and buffs on you and your companion, just in case.
Step 4: Cast Heal, hold the charge and give it to your Animal Companion
Step 5: Cast Heal, hold the charge yourself.
Step 6: Touch the stupid Lich
Step 7: ???
Step 8: Profit! by selling the Lich's equipment

[ClothedInVelvet]

Being tiny will just add 2 AC to you and also give you +2 to hit with that touch attack. A hawk or a raven should work pretty nicely with a buff or two.

[Flickerdart]

Step 1: Boost your touch attack bonuses of your Animal Companion and of your self.
Step 2: Buff both of your movements so you have at least Good fly speed and preferably at least 70 ft. per round
Step 3: Standard protections and buffs on you and your companion, just in case.
Step 4: Cast Heal, hold the charge and give it to your Animal Companion
Step 5: Cast Heal, hold the charge yourself.
Step 6: Touch the stupid Lich
Step 7: ???
Step 8: Profit! by selling the Lich's equipment
Druid Animal Companions can't deliver touch spells.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Druid Animal Companions can't deliver touch spells.

Then replace "buff touch attack bonuses" with "buff grapple". Even better.

[Yora]

What about the lichs paralyzing touch?

The DC should be only about 16 or so, which should be not much of a problem for a 13th level druid. However, there is always the chance that he will try and you roll a 2 and then it's pretty much over. How to prevent that?

[Claudius Maximus]

Having Freedom of Movement will help with that. Have it up and drink a Potion of Remove Paralysis before it expires. A Ring of Enduring Arcana (which is cheap and works just fine on divine spells) plus his lower caster level means he will be unlikely to dispel your FoM.

[Dr.Epic]

Do you have an animal companion because that could be very useful?

[candycorn]

Having Freedom of Movement will help with that. Have it up and drink a Potion of Remove Paralysis before it expires. A Ring of Enduring Arcana (which is cheap and works just fine on divine spells) plus his lower caster level means he will be unlikely to dispel your FoM.

This, and a Karma bead, means your FoM is CL 21 to dispel. A tall order, for a CL 8 Lich.

[Gorgondantess]

Why is this even a problem? If this is player vs. player, you've got 2 CR on this guy, and he's either taken a massive hit to his WBL, or he's done a lot of crafting and so you have yet another CR. And beyond that, 2 of said CR don't even contribute to casting! In the world of "thou shalt not lose caster levels", he's already lost.