Help building a stealthy cleric (3.5)

[Smokin Red]

Hey playground,
I just initiated a 3.5 Black Op's game (fantasy -> here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218543)), and now I try to come up with a stealthy cleric build.

I am nearly finished, but (as always) I'm not sure about the feats I should take. So, any help here?
By the way, the char is here (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=336925)
(I don't like über-optimized chars, so please keep your suggestions civil :smallwink:)

Thanks

[AzraeltheFalle]

Okay... First of all.
Switch Wis and Dex. Take Zen Archery as your lvl 3 feat(Complete Warrior).
Make sure to buy MW items for Move Silently and Hide.
Switch Skill focus: Conc. for Travel Devotion(Making sure that you do not need to make concentration check) and the feat is quite appropriate for an black op DnD style character.
IF this you and your group intent to sneak past people with Scent, Blind sight Tremorsense etc. it is VITAL to have the Darkstalker feat(Lords of Madness).
As this is a Standard Fantasy world it is safe to assume that there is going to be creatures with these abilities.

Just my two cent ;)

[Smokin Red]

Darkstalker!! I knew there was something like that - thanks
Where do I find Travel Devotion?

[Killer Angel]

Where do I find Travel Devotion?

If I'm not wrong, Complete champion.

BTW: reading the thread title, my first thought was "include silence in your spell list". :smalltongue:

[ClothedInVelvet]

If I'm not wrong, Complete champion.

BTW: reading the thread title, my first thought was "include silence in your spell list". :smalltongue:

You are not wrong.

And going on the Silence thread, extending it (metamagic or metamagic rod) would probably be a good way to go. If you take silent spell, you can cast Silence on yourself and cast away unnoticed from the shadows.

Trickery domain won't be bad either (good it's on there). It's got a lot of handy spells for sneaking around. The Shadow Domain (Eberron) might be better flavor-wise than Knowledge, not that it's crazy-good (although shadow walk is nice).

[u-b]

As an option you could probably DMM:Persist your Invisibility if flaws are allowed.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

Trickery domain won't be bad either (good it's on there). It's got a lot of handy spells for sneaking around. The Shadow Domain (Eberron) might be better flavor-wise than Knowledge, not that it's crazy-good (although shadow walk is nice).Knowledge is a free domain you get for being a cloistered cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric), not one you choose (and thus not one you can swap out.)

Disclaimer: I'm still pretty new to the game, so there may be a feat or alternate class feature or something I don't know about that lets a cloisterd cleric take another domain instead of the built in knowledge domain. In any event, I haven't found it and the cloistered cleric class description I linked doesn't mention it.

[Treblain]

You might want to switch WIS and DEX, but don't bother with Zen Archery if it's a matter of one point of bonus. If your WIS ends up much higher than DEX later due to magic items and level increases, then you might want to consider it then. Darkstalker is a good feat, but also one you don't need to take until higher levels.

Definitely look into Devotion feats from Complete Champion. They're great all-around and can be a good use of your excess Turning attempts.

[Curmudgeon]

Knowledge is a free domain you get for being a cloistered cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric), not one you choose (and thus not one you can swap out.)
There is no restriction to chosen domains for the Cleric swap option. From Complete Champion on page 53:
In addition, you can choose to give up access to a domain in exchange for the corresponding domain feat. A Cloistered Cleric can swap Knowledge domain for the Knowledge Devotion feat. That swap entails giving up all parts of Knowledge, including the granted power which makes all Knowledges class skills for the Cleric.

[Flickerdart]

There's also a flaw that drops one of your domains, so even if there's no corresponding Devotion for a domain you have, you can go ahead and snag one anyway.

[Andion Isurand]

for added spell list options, the prestige ranger might help add some Pass Without Trace and Camouflage and what not to your sneakyness.

To help hide the magic auras of your spells from divinations, I would check out the Luckstealer PrC in races of the Wild for the Subtle Magic feature


There is no restriction to chosen domains for the Cleric swap option. From Complete Champion on page 53: A Cloistered Cleric can swap Knowledge domain for the Knowledge Devotion feat. That swap entails giving up all parts of Knowledge, including the granted power which makes all Knowledges class skills for the Cleric.

Although, the Knowledge Devotion feat itself, does grant one knowledge skill as a perma class skill.

[Seharvepernfan]

Every time I see a myth-weavers character sheet, the owner forgets speed penalties/bonuses to jump from speed. Your character has +4, it should be -2.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

There is no restriction to chosen domains for the Cleric swap option. From Complete Champion on page 53: A Cloistered Cleric can swap Knowledge domain for the Knowledge Devotion feat. That swap entails giving up all parts of Knowledge, including the granted power which makes all Knowledges class skills for the Cleric.My point was that I don't know of any way to give up the cloistered cleric's knowledge domain for the shadow domain, as the post I quoted was suggesting. Knowledge devotion is all well and good, but it isn't what I was talking about.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

My point was that I don't know of any way to give up the cloistered cleric's knowledge domain for the shadow domain, as the post I quoted was suggesting. Knowledge devotion is all well and good, but it isn't what I was talking about.

There is always the substitute domain spell (pg 128) in complete champion. It is a 2nd level spell and lasts days/level.

[Curmudgeon]

There is always the substitute domain spell (pg 128) in complete champion. It is a 2nd level spell and lasts days/level.
And again, Knowledge doesn't need to be a domain your deity offers. The substituted domain does, though. So if you worship Nerull, The Shadow, or Xan Yae you can pick up Shadow domain this way.

[Smokin Red]

Thank you very much for your replies.

I can't simply change the Wis & Dex score (there is a +2 racial bonus on Dex), and I don't think I want to. So Zen archery is out (erstwhile)

I think Travel devotion is out too (because of the homebrew deity)
I will stay with the domains I have, due to the class skills (trickery, thievery (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12018680&postcount=34))
Can I take every devotion feat? No matter what domains my deity has got?
It will be a generic trickster deity (so Trickery, Thievery, perhaps shadow or luck? - will look into the devotion feats)

Darkstalker is in.

Silence is on my spell list
Is Silent spell really useful at this level? I always shy away from the spell-level adjustment :smallannoyed:

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

And again, Knowledge doesn't need to be a domain your deity offers. The substituted domain does, though. So if you worship Nerull, The Shadow, or Xan Yae you can pick up Shadow domain this way.

I know this, but IF he happened to worship a deity with the domain he is after he could use the spell to substitute the knowledge domain for said domain. I was merely stating it as an option.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Thank you very much for your replies.

I can't simply change the Wis & Dex score (there is a +2 racial bonus on Dex), and I don't think I want to. So Zen archery is out (erstwhile)

I think Travel devotion is out too (because of the homebrew deity)
I will stay with the domains I have, due to the class skills (trickery, thievery (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12018680&postcount=34))
Can I take every devotion feat? No matter what domains my deity has got?
It will be a generic trickster deity (so Trickery, Thievery, perhaps shadow or luck? - will look into the devotion feats)

Darkstalker is in.

Silence is on my spell list
Is Silent spell really useful at this level? I always shy away from the spell-level adjustment :smallannoyed:

The beauty of the Devotion feats are that you can take any, even if your diety doesn't offer its corresponding domain. But just remember your actually restricted to 2 Devotion feats. So still take Travel Devotion. I'm not familiar with Devotions for Thievery and Trickery, but if they do something Black Ops-y, go for it. If you want to keep the Domain as well, you have to take it as a regular feat but oh well.

[skycycle blues]

The beauty of the Devotion feats are that you can take any, even if your diety doesn't offer its corresponding domain. But just remember your actually restricted to 2 Devotion feats. So still take Travel Devotion. I'm not familiar with Devotions for Thievery and Trickery, but if they do something Black Ops-y, go for it. If you want to keep the Domain as well, you have to take it as a regular feat but oh well.

That's actually not correct. According to Complete Champion, in order for a Cleric to take a Devotion feat, they must either worship a God that offers that Devotion as a Domain or have that Domain, like how Cloistered Clerics automatically get Knowledge Domain. They are also limited to two Devotion feats unless they trade in access to a Domain for the corresponding Devotion feat.

[Smokin Red]

Thanks for all your help!
After changing the DM and getting some feedback on the matter from him, here is the build I will use: Olo (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=336925)

[Gwendol]

A ring of silent spellcasting would be a fantastic investment for your character.

[Smokin Red]

Yes, but out of reach for the time being :smallamused: