Looking for a beginners guide to crossbows

[The Succubus]

Howdy,

I'm (hopefully) going to be participating in a PBP on here soon (and if Sir_Chilvary's reading this, don't worry, I'm still hoping to play your PBP as well :smallbiggrin:) and the character I have in mind is kind of grizzled cleric with a penchant for turning evil creatures into pincushions.

The thing is, I'm not sure which feats and stats I should be looking at to make the most out of my crossbow damage. I'm guessing dexterity is the main one for attack rolls and wisdom for cleric casting.

My sources are d20srd and PHB 3.5. War domain looks like it could be a good pick - is there a cleric domain that's good for archers?

Any and all advice welcome, but try not to use third-party sourcebooks or anything obscure though.

[ClothedInVelvet]

You'll probably want to be reading through the Cleric's Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=420.0) for some advice on building a cleric.

As is pointed out therein, you'll want Zen Archery (CW) so you can use Wis to aim your crossbow rather than Dex.

[Feytalist]

The normal ranged feats will apply of course. Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and so on. You might even want to tag Far Shot. Rapid Shot might get replaced by Rapid Reload, for more attacks.

PHB2 has Crossbow Sniper, which allows you to add half your Dex to each damage roll, so you might want that if you can get it. It also allows you to sneak attack with your chosen crossbow up to 60ft, but that won't be of much worth to you.

Also, as has been mentioned, the big one is Zen Archery. It makes you a bit less MAD, but hampers Crossbow Sniper damage as well.

[Treblain]

If you're not attached to crossbows, War Domain for proficiency and Weapon Focus in longbows, and Elf Domain for Point Blank Shot. Zen Archery to use WIS for attack rolls, and then you can put points into STR for damage with a composite longbow.

I'm sure someone's going to suggest Cloistered Cleric to get Knowledge Devotion, but I'm not so sure. It doesn't get heavy armor proficiency, and with your lower DEX, that would make your AC pretty low.

[deuxhero]

Only use one till you can afford Bracers of Archery, lesser, then go with a real bow.

[The Succubus]

I'm sorry but bows are really not an option for this character. It doesn't fit the feel of him to be gracefully aiming with a longbow. He's much more of a quick and dirty sort and more like to use a heavy crossbow as a fantasy setting shotgun rather than letting an arrow soar gracefully through the air to hit something miles away.

[Spiryt]

I'm sorry but bows are really not an option for this character. It doesn't fit the feel of him to be gracefully aiming with a longbow. He's much more of a quick and dirty sort and more like to use a heavy crossbow as a fantasy setting shotgun rather than letting an arrow soar gracefully through the air to hit something miles away.

But, this not compute. :smalltongue: :smallwink:

Anyway, even in D&D Bow will generally be much better for lesser ranges, due to ease of releasing arrows quickly and without delay.

You might want to take a look at something like this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171229&highlight=crossbow), if some home brew is allowed.

Simple, and actually gives any reason to use crossbow, even though bow allows much more attacks.

[ClothedInVelvet]

If we're going for the old west version, get two heavy crossbows and skip the reloading. Either shoot one with each hand (-4 penalty) or shoot one, drop it, pull out the other one, shoot it, and wade into melee like the bad a** you are.


This character might not be fully optimized, but I love the concept.

[The Succubus]

If we're going for the old west version, get two heavy crossbows and skip the reloading. Either shoot one with each hand (-4 penalty) or shoot one, drop it, pull out the other one, shoot it, and wade into melee like the bad a** you are.


This character might not be fully optimized, but I love the concept.

Yup, you've got the sort of thing I had in mind. :smallbiggrin: I'll probably just go with the one heavy crossbow as my weight is already pushing light already. As for melee, this is something else I'm going to be a little of as well. It's hopelessly unoptimised I know but I'm going with spiked gauntlets as my melee weapons. I'd prefer normal gauntlets but apparently the spiked version counts as being armed and therefore doesn't provoke AoOs, unless I've got it wrong?

[ClothedInVelvet]

If you're wearing medium or heavy armor (as a good cleric should), you won't be hurt by carrying a medium load. Be careful if you carry a loaded crossbow on your back. One of my PCs did that once, and he got jumped from behind, taking him to the ground and discharging his crossbow. It almost nailed his companion to a tree.

Spiked gauntlets will indeed be better than plain gauntlets. But I've got a picture in my head of a cleric in full plate going for a home run swing with a morningstar.

[The Succubus]

Spiked gauntlets will indeed be better than plain gauntlets. But I've got a picture in my head of a cleric in full plate going for a home run swing with a morningstar.

Sounds fairly bad*** but grabbing a skeleton by the throat and CRUSHING ITS SKULL IN AN IRON FIST? That's a whole new flavour of bad***.

I'll pop up my character sheet for you: "Doc" Mennan (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=337008).

[ClothedInVelvet]

Grabbing a skeleton might be a grapple check; putting your fist through a skeleton's skull isn't a bad way to go though.

Ok, I'm going to suggest some revisions on your sheet:

1) Your Zen Archery feat makes your crossbow's attack bonus +3 because it replaces the use of your Dex bonus with your Wis bonus. (Doesn't add them)

2) Optimization would suggest dropping Int and Dex to 10 and raising Con (or maybe Str) to 16. I take it you don't want to use much Cha.
NOTE: This will decrease your reflex saves, AC, skill points per level, and initiative all by 1, but the Con is important.

3) Your base saves at Lvl 1 are +2/+0/+2 (unless I'm misremembering). That should add up to give you beautiful fort and will saves.

4) Ranks would be better spent in Knowledge (Religion) than the other knowledges. At 5 ranks, you'll get a bonus to turning checks.

5) You have 1 bonus spell at 1st level from your domains and 1 from your wisdom score. That means your spells should be 2 from your general list and 1 from your domains. I usually write it as 2+1.

6) I like the Description. Sounds like the trailer for a movie.

These are just some optimization notes. It's not so you focus solely on making the best character possible, but at least you can consider the tips and decide for yourself.

[Feytalist]

I'll pop up my character sheet for you: "Doc" Mennan (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=337008).

Heh. I like this character.

I actually made one like that some time back, but he was instead a traveling cleric of Fharlanghn. He also dragged a heavy crossbow around with him, but was slightly more Dex-focused.

But everything looks good so far :smallbiggrin:

[ClothedInVelvet]

I like it too. I've never done anything like this, but I'm a huge fan of the hard-boiled detective strain of Film Noir, and this just gets me back in that mood. I may have to find something with Bogart in it now.

I am curious about the hide armor. Clerics are able to wear heavy armor, is this something you're saving up for? Because if you want to keep the hide, you could tack hides to your plate, or get any of a number of alternate types of armor. But you might find yourself enjoying the extra protection.