Arena Tournament, Round 110: PETA vs. cultist 2

[ArenaManager]

Arena Tournament, Round 110: PETA vs. cultist 2

Map:http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab330/ArenaManager/Arenas/ffa07-platforms.png

XP Award: 300 XP
GP Award: 300 GP

PETA (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=323324) - darkillini
cultist 2 (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=328898) - jvluso

All Combatants, please roll initiative and declare final purchases, if any

[darkillini]

initiative [roll0]
purchases to come.

[jvluso]

init - [roll0]

Still considering purchases, but likely starters:
-50 buy 2 more scrolls of resist energy
-110 hire a wizard to cast continual flame on cultist 2's hair*
-50 buy good shoes (mwk Jump tool)
-50 buy potion of enlarge person

**I assume that for most matches this would provide the illumination of a torch which could not be put out and would not take hands, and in matches when I wanted darkness, he could raise the hood of his robes and the light would be effectively covered (as if he didn't have it.)

[darkillini]

Hiring caster services is actually against arena rules, as I found out when I tried to hire one to cast exploding runes on a book for me.

[jvluso]

I'd like some precedent on that before changing it, but if it's true, he'll do it himself with an archivist made scroll of continual flame. That would cost 150 gp instead. I'll roll failure chance when it is confirmed.

[Sallera]

It's not explicitly stated, but it is prohibited. Falls somewhat under the twin prohibitions of purchasing allies and out-of-combat buffing. For the same reason, you wouldn't be able to use that scroll before the match, either, nor does your hair count as an object for targeting purposes (it's part of you, and you're a creature). Also, how are you getting a scroll of Continual Flame for 150g? Even if you have a divine source for it at spell level 2 somewhere, you would still need to include the cost of the material component.

[jvluso]

I thought it was an arcane material component - after rereading it (and identify) I am starting to think that simply buying one use items every match will be simpler (and cheaper.)

Also, what are the full rules on out of combat buffing? This isn't that relevant for this match, so if the rules are not already strictly defined I'll move this to the waiting room, but there are a few cases I am confused about.

Spells with durations cast before the match are the obvious intent of the rule.

Permanent spells cast out of combat are apparently not allowed.

Are permanent spells cast in combat allowed? For example, if ANTE was randomly summoned into this match, would cultist 2 receive the bonuses from the fury domain against him?

Are spells with durations cast out of combat which have had their durations run out already allowed? For example, if the duration of guidance was a week, could cultist 2 have used that to train Jumpy tricks instead of having to buy masterwork tools?

[darkillini]

so are you purchasing anything else?

purchases
buying 1 cr3 potion of invisibility -300g.

reserve the right to reactionaries.

[jvluso]

Just reactionaries at this point.

Total purchases for this round so far:
-50 buy 2 more scrolls of resist energy
-.01 buy a torch
-50 buy good shoes (mwk Jump tool)
-50 buy potion of enlarge person
-25 buy torch bug paste
-25 buy oil of launch item

reserve the right to reactionaries.

[darkillini]

ok so no more purchases for either of us?
we ready to go?
starting location
B13
carrying shield held, and potion in hand

soul melds shaped
rage claws
airstep saddles 2/2 essentia invested
astral vambraces (expanded)

[jvluso]

Starting position: (it's well lit, so you can see everything inside):

cultist 2 is in Z13 holding a potion, a bag, and a scroll. All 19 slings are loaded and are in his belt, along with another potion and two scrolls.
Jumpy is in Y14/Z15 with the torch strapped to his back
The lantern and oil are in Y13, facing west.
Both the lantern and torch are lit, causing my starting box to be well lit, and your starting box to be treated as being well lit (low light vision.)

Could you include your starting position and a description of the soulmelds shaped with your first turn (as long as cultist 2 can see it.)

refs/spectators:
holding the oil of launch item, scroll of resist energy, and torchbug paste.

stats:
Hp:9/9
AC: 16 [touch 10,ff 16]

light: 2
detect magic: 1
true strike: 1
faith healing: 1
incite: 1

shift: 1
strength devotion: 1

[darkillini]

PETA round 1

starting in B13
wearing a chain shirt, club strapped to back
carrying shield held, and potion in hand, his symbiont attached to his arm like normal

soul meld descriptions
a pair of blue sandals
a pair of furred gloves with claws
a pair of silvery vambraces with hints of blue in them

free shout: YOU DARE STRAP A TORCH TO A LIVING BEING! YOU WILL PAY FOR THAT!
Move action move to F12
ready action (no peaking :smallamused:)
move action to fly away if he tries to launch anything at PETA

done

stats
hp 10/10
ac 20/14/16


effects currently (flyspeed = 20 ft, Dr 4/magic, conscious to hp=-10)
rage claws
air step sandals 1/1
astral vambraces 1/2 (expanded)

*note in initial position listing, i mistakenly had 2 invested in Airstep sandals, this was invalid as max capacity is 1 without having it as my expanded soulmeld for the day

[jvluso]

Cultist 2 - round 1

As long as this is all legal:


refs/spectators:
Torchbug paste is fun.

cultist 2:
move: move to W12 (not stepping in Y13)
free: declare target for fury domain(PETA)
free: shift scroll to mouth
standard: ready action:
If PETA moves to a square directly above a platform or takes an action other than readying an action, apply the oil to the bag

Jumpy:
delay

stats:
Hp:9/9
AC: 16 [touch 10,ff 16]

light: 2
detect magic: 1
true strike: 1
faith healing: 1
incite: 1

shift: 1
strength devotion: 1

[darkillini]

PETA round 3

you know if u want to attack at anytime your gonna have to drop either the potion or the bag :smallbiggrin:


standard
ready action
move if attacked, he launches/throws the torchbug paste bag, or he tries to cross the G/H gap (in this case when hes halfway across)

done

stats
hp 10/10
ac 20/14/16


effects currently (flyspeed = 20 ft, Dr 4/magic, conscious to hp=-10)
rage claws
air step sandals 1/1
astral vambraces 1/2 (expanded)

[jvluso]

Why should cultist 2 be the one to attack him?

Cultist 2 - round 1

As long as this is all legal:


refs/spectators:
I knew I brought him along for something. Even ig his damage is negligible, all I need is for him to cause PETA to take one action against him.

cultist 2:
move: handle animal - [roll0] DC 10
Jumpy attack PETA
standard: ready action:
If PETA moves to a square directly above a platform or takes an action other than readying an action, apply the oil to the bag

Jumpy:
If the handle animal check succeeds:
run to C16/D17
If it fails:
Delay, obviously. What did you expect?


stats:
Hp:9/9
AC: 16 [touch 10,ff 16]

light: 2
detect magic: 1
true strike: 1
faith healing: 1
incite: 1

shift: 1
strength devotion: 1

[darkillini]

using the horse I see?

i guess your not gonna do anything until its time for you to throw that torchbug paste no? fine lets get this over with.

eldon round 3


free: switch potion to mouth
move fly to I12
free draw shard
standard throw the shard.
attack [roll0] (includes -6 for range incs)
damage [roll1] slashing + [roll2]acid damage

done

stats
hp 10/10
ac 20/14/16


effects currently (flyspeed = 20 ft, Dr 4/magic, conscious to hp=-10)
rage claws
air step sandals 1/1
astral vambraces 1/2 (expanded)

[jvluso]

Had he ignored the mule, cultist 2 would have started doing other things, but the paste keeps LoS between us; the (second) most important goal in the arena.

entering I12 triggers cultist 2's readied action:
He applies the oil to the bag, causing the bag to fly towards I12
To hit I12, AC5 - [roll0]
splash weapon miss direction - [roll1]

If it hits, or misses to 5, 6, or 7, the bag bursts open covering PETA with goo.

Cultist 2 - round 3

As long as this is all legal, the bag hits, and it doesn't change your actions:


refs/spectators:
nyar.

cultist 2:
free: shift scroll to hands(dropping any empty vials and such)
standard: cast spell from scroll, spellcraft DC 16:
resist energy - acid
move: move to Q11
swift: activate strength devotion

Jumpy:
full round: double move to C9/D10->I9/J10->I10/J11

stats:
Hp:9/9
AC: 16 [touch 10,ff 16]

light: 2
detect magic: 1
true strike: 1
faith healing: 1
incite: 1

shift: 1

strength devotion: 1/10

[jvluso]

failed the rolls
[roll0]
[roll1]

[darkillini]

oh joy peta glows. (though i don't know if the square he is in is a valid target, or if u have to target him either way.)

PETA round *4*
move action fly to J5 provokes an Aoo from the horse.
standard ready action
move if either cultist or the horse try to jump onto his current platform, or they try to melee attack peta.

done
stats
hp 10/10
ac 20/14/16


effects currently (flyspeed = 20 ft, Dr 4/magic, conscious to hp=-10)
rage claws
air step sandals 1/1
astral vambraces 1/2 (expanded)

[jvluso]

What path did you take? The quickest one I see is 40 feet, and I don't think PETA has any way of getting a fly speed faster than 30 feet.
Mule! Not horse!
Jumpy attack - [roll0]
Damage - [roll1]

[darkillini]

Lol that was supposed to be J15, solve the problem of illicit movment?

[jvluso]

Cultist 2 - round 4

As long as this is all legal:

refs/spectators:
incite is fun.

cultist 2:
free: shift
move: move to L11
swift: cast a spell, spellcraft DC 16
incite
make a DC 13 will save or be unable to ready actions for a minute (and lose your current one)
move: move to L10->L15->K15

Jumpy:
move: move to H14/I15
standard: attack PETA
attack - [roll0]
damage - [roll1]

stats:
Hp:9/9
AC: 16 [touch 10,ff 16]

light: 2
detect magic: 1
true strike: 1
faith healing: 1
incite: 0

shift: 1/7
strength devotion: 2/10

[darkillini]

first off thank you for causing your horse to plummet to its doom. H14/I15 is only standing on 1/4 squares being solid ground, thus plummets to its death.

secondly will save
[roll0]

[darkillini]

passes will save
thus ready action triggers as you reach the half way point of your jump peta moves to L15. your jump ends in L14, make your reflex save or fall to death.

[jvluso]

First off thank you for causing your horse to plummet to its doom. H14/I15 is only standing with 1/4 of the squares being solid ground, so it plummets to its death.

You were correct until you mentioned plummeting. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215056&page=2) Actually you were correct until you mentioned a horse; Jumpy is a mule.

If it is legal, simply finish Jump in K15, and move to L16; Jumpy will move to J14/K15 instead of I14/J15, and not get flanking bonuses.

If that's not legal (backed up by precedent; it seems to me that since jumping is considered part of movement, he could change where he moves to, or that it wouldn't follow the rule about ending in an illegal square, because he is not trying to end there.):
Jump continues to L14-100, exceeding his movement, causing him to end his turn in L14-15, forced to use move actions to move until he lands.

Jumpy, due to the new ending position, will change his turn to a charging bull rush against PETA
strength check - [roll0]
If Jumpy succeeds, PETA is pushed to M16, causing him to immediately fall 150 feet, and Jumpy will end in K14/L15

Nice move with the readied action; I really need to stop relying on a DC13 will save which has never been failed to ruin others' plans.

[darkillini]

im more confused by the fact that, where he jumped to was completely legal within the mules movement range, the fact that where you posted him jumping to would kill it isn't cause for a backwards time hop.

and as a 10x10 creature it needs at least a 10x5 square to squeeze.


and as for the readied action,
as you cannot change the action which triggered it. the trigger was him trying to jump. so you can't change the jump attempt, thus you need the reflex save to catch the edge, or go fo the epic jump over the head of enemy dc like... 90 :smallbiggrin:

[darkillini]

i think we may need some arbitration yes?

[jvluso]

this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11888544&postcount=55) in particular was the important one from the linked thread.


But that doesn't matter; Jumpy moved after cultist 2 finished his turn, and the readied action triggering would be the backwards time hop.

order of events which would make the first second part of the post

cultist 2 begins moving
cultist 2 jumps as part of movement
PETA's ready triggers, and he moves to L15
cultist 2 finishes his movement by landing in K15 and moving to L16

I guess we need the ref's to decide if the jump check is to jump to L15, or to clear the chasm.

[darkillini]

i point to the ruling here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211911&page=4) by candy corn that is the same situation.
for the jump check.

per that ruling you cannot change the intended target of the jump. and thus need to make the dc 15 reflex save to catch the edge, or fall.

[Sallera]

The readied action was triggered by the attempt to jump. Since movement must continue as intended for at least the square that triggered the action, and you have no means of changing direction in midair after that, the jump's target remains the same. Since you can't pass through an opponent's square unless he lets you, whether you were planning on ending your turn there or not is irrelevant.

The jump check itself is not a separate action; it only allows your movement to follow the intended path.

[jvluso]

I think that has been agreed upon already as the rule. What we need is an interpretation of the rule as it pertains to the match: Is the jump check to move L13->L14->L15, or is the jump check to clear the chasm, which starts with that path, but upon his movement changes to L13->K14->K15?

tldr; That's the rule; what is the interpretation of the rule as it directly pertains to the actions attempted in post 25 of this match. (Including, if that is not legal, the actions and interpretations in the spoiler.)

[darkillini]

a jump check is made as part of a movement, however once the jump has been started it cannot change intended locations. it covers the movement across the whole chasm as one set action.

[Sallera]

I believe I just said that you have no means of changing direction in midair. The jump check is to clear a specific distance, not jump to a particular square, but it's irrelevant, as you can't change your intended movement until at least one square after the readied action is triggered, at which point it is too late, in this case. As you don't have an action available to attempt a bull rush, you thus need a Reflex save to avoid falling.

As for your plan of slow-falling because you were jumping beforehand, no. That clause covers normal movement while jumping; falling happens at the same rate as usual if you fail your jump, i.e. 150ft in the first round.

[jvluso]

Lovely. This entire match will be determined by a single die roll. I have an exactly 30% chance of winning, and a 70% chance of losing. I hate it when this happens.

Reflex Save - [roll0] DC15

And that kills him. I'll just check over the match before it gets called.

[jvluso]

OK it can be called. Technically, the trigger was tries to jump, and the readied action occurs before the triggering action, making the jump illegal while cultist 2 is still on hard ground, but the precedent is worded the same way, and if you agree with this you simply won't call it.

The action that triggered it would still be completed (Jumping across the chasm,) but with a legal ending position. He would not be changing directions mid-air, but as he jumped.

[Sallera]

The first two squares of the jump aren't illegal; it's only the end of it that is. As I've said, jumping is not a separate action, merely a type of movement.

PETA takes the victory.

[darkillini]

reviewing this.. wow it did come down to that one roll.. because your mules bull rush was beyond PETA's ability to beat :smalleek: that woulda knocked him off the edge if u had been able to grab edge.

good match, I'l have to remember to bring something other then acid damage >.< if/when i run into him again in this round.