Cheap way to beat Detect Evil and/or Know Alignment?

[Diarmuid]

The Amulet of Proof Against D&L is a whopping 35k gp (I guess that's a deal, as by the item creation guidelines it should be 54k). Is there something, preferably not homebrew that will do something similar?

It doesnt have to be as powerful as Nondetection, I just want to be able to play a char idea I have in a game, but I know that game has a Paladin in it.

The char isnt a horrible person, just a bit on the self serving side.

Help?

[MikolasTheAngry]

I know by RAW a thin sheet of lead blocks Detect Evil.

I don't know how feasible it is for you to line your clothing with lead, however.

[gkathellar]

The char isnt a horrible person, just a bit on the self serving side.

If he's "just a bit on the self serving side," he's probably closer to Jerk Neutral than he is evil. Perfect valid alignment choice.

Also, why does it matter? Do you have a psychopathic paladin in the party?

[Ravens_cry]

Undetectable Alignment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/undetectableAlignment.htm) is a 1st level Bard spell, and it lasts 24 hours. Either fit a level of Bard in your build, put ranks in UMD, or get a super cheap custom magic item.
Funny enough, it is also a Paladin spell.

[Diarmuid]

I was planning on playing the character as Neutral Evil and I imagine most paladins, whether they're psycopathic or not will not choose to keep company with someone Evil given the choice.

Doesnt mean he has to KOS me sure, but trust, work together, share, etc with...probably not and I really cant fault him for that.

[Re'ozul]

Ring of mind shielding (in the srd):

This ring is usually of fine workmanship and wrought from heavy gold. The wearer is continually immune to detect thoughts, discern lies, and any attempt to magically discern her alignment. (8,000gp)

[Vladislav]

A potion of Undetectable Alignment (as a Bard spell) costs only 100 gp, and lasts a whole day. Instead of splurging 8K on a ring, get 20-30 potions. Let's face it, in 20-30 game days, either you will die, or the Paladin will die, or the campaign will end. (also, after several failures to detect your alignment, the Paladin may assume you're permanently undetectable and stop trying)

[Addi]

...the Paladin may assume you're permanently undetectable and stop trying)

Doesn't he perceive your alignment as neutral? That means: Take one of those potions and provoke him to use detect evil on you. After that he will "know" that your character is the "neutral jerk". It's a little risky, but much cheaper.

[Diefje]

Potion of Glibness and tell him you're trying to better your ways, and that the Evil he's detecting are strictly remnants of the past. Bonus points for getting him to pay for an atonement and blow the gp on booze and hookers

[Yuki Akuma]

Undetectable Alignment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/undetectableAlignment.htm) is a 1st level Bard spell, and it lasts 24 hours. Either fit a level of Bard in your build,

By which you mean two levels, of course, as a first level Bard cannot cast first level spells.

[Psyren]

Funny enough, it is also a Paladin spell.

Makes perfect sense to me. They can't lie (much), and the cultist scanning the bar with Detect Good is probably going to have some pointed questions to ask before letting slip where he's stashed the sacrificial virgins for tonight's party.

[Diefje]

Makes perfect sense to me. They can't lie (much), and the cultist scanning the bar with Detect Good is probably going to have some pointed questions to ask before letting slip where he's stashed the sacrificial virgins for tonight's party.
But not being truthful by omission is bending the Code and not exactly LG. Deception and infiltration isn't very paladin-y.

But I guess it doesn't directly violate the Code and riding around on unicorns, farting rainbows, swinging around your shining sword, dressed in polished silver and gold isn't always appropriate.

[Calmar]

Fancy SLAs are cool and all, but once he figures out that your character is a scumbag he can decide not to work together with him, no matter what your alignment appears to be.

[Keld Denar]

Be a halfling. They have it as a racial feature. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0202.html)

Since its Arcane, and really low level (on the Bard list), you could get an Eternal Wand for pretty cheap. That gives you 2/day castings, which could either cover you + 1 friend, or you + one backup incase you get dispelled.

[Ravens_cry]

Makes perfect sense to me. They can't lie (much), and the cultist scanning the bar with Detect Good is probably going to have some pointed questions to ask before letting slip where he's stashed the sacrificial virgins for tonight's party.
Oh, for a *smart* Paladin, it makes perfect sense.

By which you mean two levels, of course, as a first level Bard cannot cast first level spells.
By which I mean "My Bad". Still, for magic item creation, a 24 hour spell that is only caster level 2, spell level 1, it's pretty darn cheap.

[Psyren]

But not being truthful by omission is bending the Code and not exactly LG.

O-Chul did it, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0663.html) therefore it's fine. If your DM disagrees, roundhouse-kick him with O-Chul's beard.

[Jack_Simth]

The Amulet of Proof Against D&L is a whopping 35k gp (I guess that's a deal, as by the item creation guidelines it should be 54k). Is there something, preferably not homebrew that will do something similar?

It doesnt have to be as powerful as Nondetection, I just want to be able to play a char idea I have in a game, but I know that game has a Paladin in it.

The char isnt a horrible person, just a bit on the self serving side.

Help?Try the Ring of Mind Shielding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#mindShielding) at 8,000 gp.

[hex0]

But not being truthful by omission is bending the Code and not exactly LG. Deception and infiltration isn't very paladin-y.


Gray Guard :smallamused:

[Barlen]

Undetectable alignment is also on the Beguiler spell list at 1st level. They also get Misdirection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/misdirection.htm) at 2nd level (4th to cast). This one is 1 hr/level and also covers magic/lies and such. Its also on the bard and wiz/sor lists at 2nd.

Between them this should cover you well enough.

[Alleran]

O-Chul did it, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0663.html) therefore it's fine. If your DM disagrees, roundhouse-kick him with O-Chul's beard.
I'm tempted to sig that.

[Little Brother]

4 levels of Charlatan (DR335) grant you the ability for both divination and any knowledge/Gather Info to pick up whatever story you want, not the truth, as an EX, as well as the ability to cast EX Burning Hands, Flare, Glitterdust, Obscuring Mist, and Pyrotechnics 1+Charlatan level+Cha modifier/day, some useful at-will divination of sorts, a Bluff check to shake for d4 rounds, if they make their SM they're immune for a week, the ability yo Atone and Remove Disease/Curse for d4 hours the 1+Charlatan level+Cha modifier/day and the ability to Charm Person, Scare, Hideous Laughter, or Command the same a day. Pretty nifty.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Honestly, all these strategies- though effective- strike me as ignoring the real issue, which is player conflict. If the OP's character isn't really horrible, "just a bit on the self serving side," and the paladin's player is mature enough to role-play properly, don't waste the money and have fun playing out the conflict. If the paladin's player is going to be the detect evil-autosmite type, then all the magic items in the game won't prevent problems.

[Anxe]

I had an idea for a rogue that pretended to be a paladin. He'd be evil but use a Holy Sword with Use Magic Device. He'd then get a Misdirection item and use that so he detected as Good to curious people. It's not cheaper than the 35k item, but its permanent and useful for other things besides just not being detected.

[AMFV]

Doesn't he perceive your alignment as neutral? That means: Take one of those potions and provoke him to use detect evil on you. After that he will "know" that your character is the "neutral jerk". It's a little risky, but much cheaper.

It does just ping you as neutral... Cause, yeah showing up as ''undectable'', is probably a dead giveaway.

[Elfinor]

Rich did that strip for kicks; Detect Evil doesn't actually differentiate between good, neutral and undetectable. By a strict RAW definition if you scanned, for example, Haley you would get no result. If you scanned a rock you would still get no result. And if you were looking for Haley behind a thin paper wall, detect evil would not help either. There is no functional difference in Detect Evil's alert between Hayley, Belkar behind a lead sheet, Belkar with a magically concealed alignment and a Rock.

You can read for yourself here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectEvil.htm)

This doesn't apply to Know Alignment, but Paladins can't cast that at will.

[The Succubus]

Potion of Glibness and tell him you're trying to better your ways, and that the Evil he's detecting are strictly remnants of the past. Bonus points for getting him to pay for an atonement and blow the gp on booze and hookers

LAdies and gents, we have a winner. :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

It does just ping you as neutral... Cause, yeah showing up as ''undectable'', is probably a dead giveaway.

There is no reading called "neutral" or "undetectable" or even "good." The spell either returns "evil" or "not evil" - and the latter gets no explanation beyond that.


I'm tempted to sig that.

Feel free :smalltongue:

[ericgrau]

(also, after several failures to detect your alignment, the Paladin may assume you're permanently undetectable and stop trying)
Detect evil only says there is evil or nothing. Undetectable alignment means he picks up nothing, same as on a non-evil person.

[Vladislav]

Detect evil only says there is evil or nothing. Undetectable alignment means he picks up nothing, same as on a non-evil person.

Yes, you're right. So after one attempt and having detected him as non-evil, the Paladin will most likely stop trying, so the OP may able to get by with just one potion.

[Dusk Eclipse]

There is a feat..mask of Generosity in Exemplar of Evil, which makes every divination spell that would read your aligment, detect is as normal and increase the DC of sense motive to get a hunch of your true nature.

Requires Cha 15 and 9 ranks in bluff and disguise, so it can be your level 6 feat.

[Madeiner]

Yes, you're right. So after one attempt and having detected him as non-evil, the Paladin will most likely stop trying, so the OP may able to get by with just one potion.

He won't likely try to actively scan for him again, but he will pick his evil up someday.

Remember that in the first round, you get a "absence or presence of evil" in the area you are looking. If the paladin picks up evil, then he will continue concentrating to locate said evil, and he will find out about the PC.

You don't get a 360-degree scan, that's true... but there will be many occasions when the evil PC will be in front of the paladin when he casts detect evil. I mean, you all enter a room, the paladin casts detect evil and looks around. Evil PC is discovered 2 rounds later.

Even if the evil PC reacts in time and gets out of the paladin view, the paladin will soon notice and investigate.


That said, i have an important NPC in my campaign that doesnt want to detected or probed by the group paladin. He has a ring of mind shielding, but he doesn't actually wear it. Instead, a random bodyguard wears it so that no one can detect the ring magical aura. I don't remember the exact spell i used (but i'm sure it exists and is probably core), but the guard is projecting the ring effect onto the NPC.

Now the funny things is that the group, paladin included, SOLD the ring to the NPC for a high price, but that was 3 years ago (in real time) or about 15 years ago (in game time) so i'm not even asking for INT checks to remember the fact :P

[Diarmuid]

I like the sound of the Undetectable Alignment Bard spell. So, if I got an eternal wand with that in it, would I be able to use it as a Hexblade without needing the UMD check? Technically I would only have 3 Hexblade levels so wouldnt have spells yet, but the class can cast arcane spells.

[Psyren]

I like the sound of the Undetectable Alignment Bard spell. So, if I got an eternal wand with that in it, would I be able to use it as a Hexblade without needing the UMD check? Technically I would only have 3 Hexblade levels so wouldnt have spells yet, but the class can cast arcane spells.

It's on the Hexblade list, therefore you need no UMD check. And yes, you can activate a wand of it despite being unable to actually cast it yet.

[Barlen]

a custom item (headband? alignment is in the phylactery slot) would only cost 1000gp for continuous operation.

Its 1 (level of the bard spell) x 1 (caster level) x 2000 (base for continuous operation) x 0.5 (halved because the original spell is 24hr duration).

The eternal wand is 820 and you still have to use it everyday.

[Diarmuid]

Well hell, I like that even more. Will see if the DM allows it.

[Vladislav]

a custom item (headband? alignment is in the phylactery slot) would only cost 1000gp for continuous operation.

Its 1 (level of the bard spell) x 1 (caster level) x 2000 (base for continuous operation) x 0.5 (halved because the original spell is 24hr duration).

The eternal wand is 820 and you still have to use it everyday.A level 1 bard can't cast level 1 spells, so it has to be at least caster level 2.

[Keld Denar]

Beguilers can. The item made by a Beguiler would use that formula. They have it as a 1st level spell.

[Yuki Akuma]

Eternal wands can be used by any arcane spellcaster. A Sorcerer would be able to use an eternal wand of Undetectable Alignment without UMD.

And a first level Magewright can use an eternal wand of fireball (which was the entire point for inventing them in the Eberron setting).

[Razzor.Spo]

Here's a great Feat from Secrets of Sarlona (pg. 117)
dndtools. net/feats/secrets-of-sarlona--14/mind-mask--1952

Mind Mask
[Psionic]

Your mind conceals some of your traits.

Prerequisite: none

Benefit:
Effects that detect alignment reveal that you are neutral, and detect magic and detect psionics reveal you to be nonmagical and nonpsionic, regardless of your true nature. You also get a +1 bonus on saving throws against mind-affecting spells, power, and abilities. If you wish, you can suppress the benefit of this feat to reveal your actual characteristics and forgo the save bonus.

Special:
This feat does not mask the aura of effects you create or items in you possession, including ongoing spells and powers, as well as imbedded magic or psionic items.

[ATHATH]

Here's a great Feat from Secrets of Sarlona (pg. 117)
dndtools. net/feats/secrets-of-sarlona--14/mind-mask--1952

Mind Mask
[Psionic]

Your mind conceals some of your traits.

Prerequisite: none

Benefit:
Effects that detect alignment reveal that you are neutral, and detect magic and detect psionics reveal you to be nonmagical and nonpsionic, regardless of your true nature. You also get a +1 bonus on saving throws against mind-affecting spells, power, and abilities. If you wish, you can suppress the benefit of this feat to reveal your actual characteristics and forgo the save bonus.

Special:
This feat does not mask the aura of effects you create or items in you possession, including ongoing spells and powers, as well as imbedded magic or psionic items.
Do you know what Thread Necromancy is?

[Zhentarim]

The Amulet of Proof Against D&L is a whopping 35k gp (I guess that's a deal, as by the item creation guidelines it should be 54k). Is there something, preferably not homebrew that will do something similar?

It doesnt have to be as powerful as Nondetection, I just want to be able to play a char idea I have in a game, but I know that game has a Paladin in it.

The char isnt a horrible person, just a bit on the self serving side.

Help?

Inquisitor with the infiltrator archetype and heresy inquisition should work well. If you take the diabolical negotiator feat, as well, you have a character that can be really selfish and still detect as good. If you don't worship asmodeus, bumping up int and taking clever wordplay as a trait is also an option.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/archetypes/inquisitor-archetypes-paizo/infiltrator/

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/inquisitions/inquistions-paizo/heresy-inquisition/