Help with a melee build!

[Legendairy]

Hey playgrounders,
Well one of my players would like an optimized melee build. The basics I think is psychic warrior his rolls are 18 17 16 16 16 14

Basic rules
No ToB
Wanting either Goliath or half-giant race
No flaws
A playable build from early levels
High bab
Options for combat
Any PrC that would help
Basically all books available including campaign setting stuff
Oh and please no dragon mag stuff

I know it's alot to ask so I thank you all in advance!

[Curious]

Hey playgrounders,
Well one of my players would like an optimized melee build. The basics I think is psychic warrior his rolls are 18 17 16 16 16 14

Basic rules
No ToB
Wanting either Goliath or half-giant race
No flaws
A playable build from early levels
High bab
Options for combat
Any PrC that would help
Basically all books available including campaign setting stuff
Oh and please no dragon mag stuff

I know it's alot to ask so I thank you all in advance!

Don't tell me. Your DM thinks ToB is 'broken'?
Sigh.
Ah, well. Your first level should be Spirit Lion Totem Whirling Frenzy Barbarian for pounce and an extra attack. After that, grab 6 levels of Zhentarim/Dungeoncrasher Thug Fighter. Make sure to grab the feat Shock Trooper at 6th level, and Leap Attack anytime after that. Use in conjunction with power attack for full. Enjoy murdering everything ever.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Don't tell me. Your DM thinks ToB is 'broken'?
Sigh.
Ah, well. Your first level should be Spirit Lion Totem Whirling Frenzy Barbarian for pounce and an extra attack. After that, grab 6 levels of Zhentarim/Dungeoncrasher Thug Fighter. Make sure to grab the feat Shock Trooper at 6th level, and Leap Attack anytime after that. Use in conjunction with power attack for full. Enjoy murdering everything ever.

Except when there's difficult terrain.

Just go whirling frenzy spirit lion totem barbarian 1/psychic warrior X on a half-giant.

[Curious]

Except when there's difficult terrain.

Just go whirling frenzy spirit lion totem barbarian 1/psychic warrior X on a half-giant.

If you're going Psychic Warrior why bother with the Barbarian level at all? You've got hustle for movement, and your own powers will be more useful than an extremely limited number of rages a day.

[Hirax]

Before everybody rushes in with charger builds, here's an unarmed option:
monk2/psywar9/slayer9
feats:
You'll want to take tashalatora, a feat that allows a psionic class of your choice to advance monk features, including flurry, it's in Secrets of Sarlona. A pre req is the feat monastic training, which monks can trade improved crapple or stunning fail for at level 1 to get it for free. Flurry tops out at level 11, which is why I'm ducking out at psywar9 and heading into the a full BAB psionic prc, so you'll end up with BAB of 16 at level 20, barely grabbing your 4th iterative.

[Lord.Sorasen]

Don't tell me. Your DM thinks ToB is 'broken'?
Sigh.
Ah, well. Your first level should be Spirit Lion Totem Whirling Frenzy Barbarian for pounce and an extra attack. After that, grab 6 levels of Zhentarim/Dungeoncrasher Thug Fighter. Make sure to grab the feat Shock Trooper at 6th level, and Leap Attack anytime after that. Use in conjunction with power attack for full. Enjoy murdering everything ever.

ToB being thought "broken" really isn't going to cause major issues here. You've still got access to some great stuff, primarily through the psychic warrior.

In particular, goliath is a bit better than half-giant, so go with that. Now, goliath has that powerful build, and that's going to be a big deal because you're really going to want knockback. Knockback is a really neat feat that lets you push things when you punch things. If you combine this with dungeoncrasher fighter 6, you can cause some serious damage with high strength and a wall.

In terms of psychic warrior... There are several ways to go with this. I am personally a huge fan of the power "expansion", which lets you grow a size category, increasing your strength and, perhaps just as importantly, increasing your reach. Having a good reach will allow you to really make it easier to beat people into things. You might, for that reason, take a reach weapon. Even among simple weapons there's the longspear, but among fighters there will be far better choices.

One of the real lows to picking the psychic warrior is that 3/4 BaB. But do not fear! Fighter has high BaB, as does barbarian. Consider taking a level of barbarian for pounce. It won't matter right away but when it does it does. And rage can be nice too sometimes.

Or perhaps you want to go for something different? Tashalatora monk (monk 1 or 2/psionic class the rest) is a nice option. All the monk feel but all the psychic warrior power. Well, most of the psychic warrior power.

If you want to go really crazy you can be a druid. Druids have wild shape, and spellcasting within wild shape. This makes them very powerful even as melee type warriors. They can get very decent damage, and even without spells will beat fighters in terms of versatility with different shapes. Though, from the looks of things, your fighter has some pretty incredible stats so you might be fine anyway.

[Hiro Protagonest]

In particular, goliath is a bit better than half-giant, so go with that. Now, goliath has that powerful build, and that's going to be a big deal because you're really going to want knockback. Knockback is a really neat feat that lets you push things when you punch things. If you combine this with dungeoncrasher fighter 6, you can cause some serious damage with high strength and a wall.

Half-giant is better if you're a psychic warrior.

[Lord.Sorasen]

Half-giant is better if you're a psychic warrior.

Out of curiosity, why would this be? It seems like all you really gain is stomp (which is charisma based) and 2 power points. Where goliath gets 2 more strength. Unless there is something I am missing.

It's also worth mentioning that not all DMs will let psychic warrior have knockback. Why? The feat says you need to be large size or goliath. Or rather, that goliath's also get it by virtue of their powerful build. I personally am of the belief that they meant that any unit with powerful build could take the feat, but I can definitely see two interpretations both RAW and RAI.

[Medic!]

I'm personally a huge fan of using lion totem barb for pounce, doing whirling frenzy, and tossing in Headlong Rush from races of faerun (orc or half-orc)...plenty of other feats to toss in with it, PA, Leap Attack, etc. A full attack on a charge with double damage is finger-lickin good!

[marcielle]

Play a Druid. Meelee as a bear alongside your bear. Even without spells you probably gonna pwn. No, I am not saying show him core is brokener then ToB, I mean simply go all out bears. It's actually pretty fun. Bonus points for working in Bearbarian, Bear Warrior and becoming a were-bear.

[magwaaf]

Hey playgrounders,
Well one of my players would like an optimized melee build. The basics I think is psychic warrior his rolls are 18 17 16 16 16 14

Basic rules
No ToB
Wanting either Goliath or half-giant race
No flaws
A playable build from early levels
High bab
Options for combat
Any PrC that would help
Basically all books available including campaign setting stuff
Oh and please no dragon mag stuff

I know it's alot to ask so I thank you all in advance!

google basic 3.5 power builds since your dm has issues and i would make several comments that'd prolly get me suspended from the boards because of his and every other idiot's opinion of ToB. It finally made nonmagical melee pc's be able to go toe to toe with casters.

if that's not allowed then go play a rogue or a caster if you want to hit harder than anything else, barbarians are alright if you are a lucksack die roller, my last one prestiged into tempest so he could hit harder, see if your.

if your dm is willing to let you play with a level adjustement than i highly recommend a bugbear barbarian tempest, they hit hard and for +1 level adj are completely worth it

bugbears get darkvision, scent, a bonus to move silently, +4 str, +2 dex, +2 con, -2 charisma and i think a little more and for a +1 are completely worth it and viable for melee builds

[Gwendol]

Go with Goliath: goliath barbarian substitution level to get mountain rage (become Large when raging).
Go for dungeoncrasher fighter.
Get Imp Bull rush, power attack, knock-back, and later shock trooper.

I'd recommend trying to squeeze in a two-level monk dip in there as well and pick imp grapple.

Use a Large weapon, 2-handed, and have fun!

[magwaaf]

if he does that wouldnt he not get his monk abilities because monks lose their abilities when they multiclass

[skycycle blues]

if he does that wouldnt he not get his monk abilities because monks lose their abilities when they multiclass

False.

Ex-Monks

A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all monk abilities.

Like a member of any other class, a monk may be a multiclass character, but multiclass monks face a special restriction. A monk who gains a new class or (if already multiclass) raises another class by a level may never again raise her monk level, though she retains all her monk abilities.

[docnessuno]

Such high stats really suit well some MaD builds so, without cheesing the character too much (see dungeoncrasher) some ideas could be:

Half giant Warrior 2 / Monk 4 (decisive strike variant) / Battlemind
Str 18 dex 16 con 16 int 16 wis 17 cha 14 (before racial), 1 stat increment in wis, rest in str.

Works very well from the beginning (start as a standard warrior, switch to monk at level 3 and start pounding with double damage hits (decisive strike), take the tashalatora feat at level 9 to add your battlemind level for most monk table progressions. At level 11 and 13 really shines (gaining first the ability to hit 2 targets whenever you would hit one, and then being able to do 2 double damage strikes each round)


Another good one is a duskblade, and works well as a goliath without any fancy Prcs or multiclassing
Str 18 dex 17 con 16 int 16 wis 14 cha 16 (before racial), 1 stat increment in dex, rest in str. As soon as you can cast in medium armor grab a mithral full plate. use a trusty golliath greathammer, and add a dancing shield when you can aford it. key feats are Power attack, arcane strike. Have fun with true strike/full PA and channeling shocking grasp/vampiric touch

[Mystral]

Well, with that rolls, pretty much everything is feasible. Might I ask what method of rolling you used?


Maybe I could interest you with the good old sorcadin gish? You get versatility that isn't that far behind maximum, and your attacks are going to be touch attacks when it counts after a few levels, anyway. It's a bit weak at level 5-6, but nothing unplayable, and after that, its very nice.

Also, TOB is very good and I'll never understand people who don't allow it.

[docnessuno]

Well, with that rolls, pretty much everything is feasible. Might I ask what method of rolling you used?


Maybe I could interest you with the good old sorcadin gish? You get versatility that isn't that far behind maximum, and your attacks are going to be touch attacks when it counts after a few levels, anyway. It's a bit weak at level 5-6, but nothing unplayable, and after that, its very nice.

Also, TOB is very good and I'll never understand people who don't allow it.

Agree, and the classic charisma gish is another viable build (paladin 2 / sorcerer 4 / spellsword 1 / abjurant champion 5), but i find the duskblade much more effective in the low levels (and pretty much on par in the 8-13 range), even if it's missing wraithstrike.

[Legendairy]

A few clarifications
1. We switch DM's so noone gets burnt out
2. I love ToB the two others don't have the book so are shy to use it and one of the other DM's is a tool and doesn't really know the rules(so he doesn't dm much anyway)
3. I tried to talk him into using ToB a warblade or a nice swordsage build but he's not familiar with it and the maneuvers seem a bit daunting to him for some strange reason, he generally plays a Druid with VoP

I think he wants some versatility out of combat as well, he liked the idea of the wall walking and things too. He is decent at optimization when it comes to his Druid or cleric builds but he shies away because one of the DM's flips out when you actually deviate from his storybook ish plots. But yeah that's a whole other issue I'm not getting into. My best guess is he wants a ToB style character without the ToB hence psychic warrior. Yeah the uber chargers are awesome and all but they are one trick ponies ( granted it's a neat trick ) they just have to have abilities to help in RP situations and solutions that require more thought than "hulk smash"

Again thank you all these are some amazing ideas keep em coming if at all possible. Just wanted to clarify some things I think, oh also he is planning on a large two hander me thinks.

Edit: Bring on some gishes and the rolling method was a generator using 4d6 drop the lowest one...all of us rolled amazing and we all rolled infront of the group.

[Little Brother]

Psionic Lion's Charge technically stacks with pounce.

Two full attacks on a charge. You get fighter bonus feats as a PsyWar. Do I really need to say anything else?

[Hirax]

Psionic Lion's Charge technically stacks with pounce.

Two full attacks on a charge. You get fighter bonus feats as a PsyWar. Do I really need to say anything else?

I'm pretty sure trying to use that reading of PLC would get DMGs thrown at you.

[Glimbur]

I'm pretty sure trying to use that reading of PLC would get DMGs thrown at you.

If you really want books thrown, point out that Psionic Lion's Charge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicLionsCharge.htm) has a duration of instantaneous and therefore it grants Pounce permanently.

Gish is a legit way to go; Sorcadin has already been suggested. Dread Necromancer has some gish-type abilities (DR, mostly) but they are arguably best for hordes of undead which are annoying to do paperwork for.

Totemist from Magic of Incarnum is interesting but I suspect that your group won't want another source book. They are very flexible and focus on gaining and using natural attacks.

Rangers have skills and BAB and stuff, so they aren't useless out of combat, but their class features leave a lot to be desired. The standard fix for that is from a Dragon Magazine, so...

Binder(Tome of Magic) could be interesting but, again, it's not from your usual sources.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Primordial Half-Giant, Wild Shape Ranger 1 or 2/ Psion 6 or 4/ Slayer 9/ Sanctified Mind 4 or 5. Use Share Pain on your psicrystal each day, and share Vigor with it to get a huge HP cushion. Use Control Body targeting yourself with Solicit Psicrystal, so your psicrystal maintains concentration and controls your physical actions (using your own BAB and Int score) leaving your own actions and mind free to manifest powers. Maybe even use Schism to gain a second mental standard action so you can manifest another (weaker) power each round. Wild Shape Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) is only to get Fast Movement at the 1st level, otherwise get the two weapon combat style. This is pretty standard for a psionic gish, it's no Persistent Wraithstrike + Power Attack combo but it's still pretty good as long as you don't run yourself out of powerpoints.

[Legendairy]

Here's a random thought/question
With a powerful build could you stack that with monkey grip to use a huge weapon as a medium with only a -2? That seems like it would make that feat almost worth taking?

[Justyn]

Here's a random thought/question
With a powerful build could you stack that with monkey grip to use a huge weapon as a medium with only a -2? That seems like it would make that feat almost worth taking?

No. It would be nice if it did, but it doesn't. It does let you qualify for the Wield Oversized Weapon epic feat though. But I do think that "speed bumps" (feats that basically exist for no other reason but to qualify for a better feat down the line) like that are just bad design space: maybe I'm just spoiled by playing Exalted, where the current developers firmly believe that every one of the game's feat analogues should be worth getting on its own merits rather than just to meet the prerequisites of another one down the line.

[Mystral]

Here's a sorcadin build I made once, I never get to play her, sadly, but I think she's pretty good at what she does.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=313234

During the first 2-5 levels, just play her like a regular paladin. Take Mage armor for your armor needs, you'll later swap this out when you get luminous armor. Just full powerattack with a lance on a charge and then lay into themm with your sword. It's a bit iffy at level 4-5, but when you get wraith strike, it gets pretty brutal pretty quickly.

[Legendairy]

Only issue with paladin is the player says he does not want to RP one. I did point out the alternate alignment ones but he still says no. Mounted combat although brutal is very very limited in our campaigns for various reasons. So if we can avoid paladin and I'm still thinking he wants some sort of Psion with decent bab. I know very little about Psion builds and their inner workings so I am almost completely useless to the player.(I keep pointing him to ToB but he doesn't want to use it)

So yeah gishes that don't use paly and Psion type builds.
Thank you all!

[faceroll]

If you're going Psychic Warrior why bother with the Barbarian level at all? You've got hustle for movement, and your own powers will be more useful than an extremely limited number of rages a day.

Extra attack, +4 str, +2 AC, pounce?