Undead Minotaur Encounter Help

[Serpentine]

Yeah yeah, another "do the hard DMing work of setting up an encounter for me" thread from me. But hey, it's not as though you've got anything better to do :smallwink:

A way back, my party overcame Morndrax's Labyrinth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8737530&postcount=3), and Morndrax himself. But I've always been quite fond of the big guy, and I've decided to bring him back - this time as an undead.
Now, I think the party burnt his body, but I can't remember. I know they burned the body of the DMPC, but can't remember about the minotaur... But the only other player who was there can't remember either, so I guess it doesn't matter *shrug*

So, we've been chased by this yuan-ti abomination Ranger a few times, and this is going to be his last-ditch effort to bring us down. And he just happened to come across a fun, mouldering minotaur Barbarian corpse...

I'm thinking of making Morndrax a Death Knight, but I'm open to other suggestions. One of the Death Knight's features is a special mount. It's "typically" a nightmare, but that's boring and doesn't fit. I was thinking a gorgon could be neat, but that's just off the top of my head. Any other neat Evil or Neutral ridable beasts that would look great with an undead minotaur on its back?

There's also the possibility of giving the yuan-ti abomination and/or Morndrax an extra level or two. The party is 4 level 13s and 2 level 14s, and the last used stats for the yuan-ti, Death Knight Morndrax-as-written and a CR 8 mount (gorgon, may actually be included in the Death Knight +CR) comes out as an Easy encounter (EL 14, PL 14.5).

Morndrax's stats (sorry 'bout the medium):
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/serpentine16/morndrax_0001.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/serpentine16/morndrax_0002.jpg
Yuan-ti Abomination Ranger pursuer's stats:
Yuan-ti Abomination, 3rd-level Ranger
Size/Type: Large Monstrous Humanoid
Hit Dice: 12d8+36 (96)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 30 ft., climb 20 ft., swim 20 ft.
Armor Class: 23 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +10 natural, +3 +1 shadow woodwalk leather), touch 10, flat-footed 22
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+20
Attack: +2 Macana +19 melee (1d6+7/19-20 x2) or +1 dagger melee (1d4+6/19-20 x2) or +2 composite (4) longbow +15 ranged (2d6+6 + poison (2d12/1d6Con DC 16)/x3)
Full Attack: +2 Macana +19/+14 melee (1d6+7/19-20 x2) and bite +10 melee (2d6+3+ poison (1d6Con/1d6Con DC 17) or +2 composite (4) longbow +15/+10 ranged (2d6+6 + poison (2d12/1d6Con DC 16)/x3)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Aversion, constrict 1d6+6, improved grab, poison, produce acid, spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft., Alternate form, chameleon power, detect poison, scent, spell resistance 18
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +10, Will +12
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 13, Con 17, Int 20, Wis 20, Cha 18
Skills: Concentration +15, Craft/Knowledge +17, Hide +13 (+15cp&armor=+28), Listen +24, Move Silently +19, Spot +19, Survival +21
Feats: Able Sniper, Alertness, Blind-Fight, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Mobility
Spells: Will: animal trance (DC16), entangle (DC15); 3/day: deeper darkness, neutralise poison (DC18), suggestion (DC17); 1/day: baleful polymorph (DC19 – snake), fear (DC18). CL 10, saves Cha-based.
Challenge Rating: 10
Treasure: Potion of Invisibility x3, potion cure serious wounds x3, wand cure moderate wounds, wand summon monster III (small fire elemental)

Any thoughts?

[ClothedInVelvet]

I'm not sure a Death Knight template is what you want to be using. This all assumes you're using the MM2 template.

You'll lose the minotaur's +4 Con bonus and his natural armor won't improve at all, while he becomes undead. By level 14, players should have figured out some good ways of killing undead.

I'm not saying not to resurrect him as undead and bring him back, that sounds interesting, but I think the death knight's +3 CR adjustment isn't actually going to provide that much increase in challenge.

[Runestar]

Well, at cr10, your abomination isn't really going to challenge the party in any meaningful way. You will want to bump him up to at least cr15-16 for him to pose a credible threat (there are 6 players in the party after all, and class lvs don't really scale well for their cr). Or make both of them ~c14 minimum.

You could just give him 4 more ranger lvs, raising his bab to +16 and bumping his cr to 14, though personally I would love to try and work the half-dragon template in somewhere. :smalltongue: This gives him 2 stat boosts, assign them to dex and con for the most significant gains.

You will want to do something about that AC of his though. Considering how little AC you are getting from his armour, consider replacing it with a monk's belt or a mithral chainshirt, as well as an item granting competence bonuses to hide . Also, have the sr scale with class lvs (increasing to 25). As for spells, there are a few arrow-enhancing ones in champions of ruin.

Featwise, give him insightful reflexes (complete adventurer, applies int mod to reflex saves in place of dex). Ranger6 would give him manyshot.

Still thinking about how to modify the minotaur. Will get back to you on that. :smallsmile:

[Serpentine]

Nah, no templates. They've already come up against this guy 2 or 3 times: he is what he is. I kinda think at this point he's pretty much invested everything he's got into Morndrax as his last-ditch effort to take the party down - and last time we went up against him, he cut my character in half vertically, almost (technically, did) kill another party member, and gave the rest a run for their money.
...my party's kinda unpredictable, competence-wise :/

But, I should say, I want this to be a decent, and threatening, encounter, but one that won't take forever or likely to result in general deathness.

Thanks, though! Keep 'em coming!

[etrpgb]

I am afraid making a minotaur an undead is making him really weaker.
The main reason is that it cannot have regeneration after losing the Constitution. Of course you can DM fiat that it has rapid healing, but it is still weaker.

[Runestar]

I agree that the easiest way to to just keep the minotaur as is. Maybe give him another lv of barb. Storywise, you can say the yuanti paid for his resurrection as he saw him as a potential ally.

So your encounter would comprise of a minotaur barb10 and an abomination ranger7. At EL16, this seems reasonable. :smallsmile:

[Serpentine]

But... he doesn't have regeneration anyway :smallconfused: Or have I forgotten something? (it's been a long time since I ran that game...)

And I really like the idea of an undead minotaur, sorry guys. Just "fighting him again" won't cut it for me. If anyone knows of some cool homebrew undead types I'll definitely check it out, though.

[Runestar]

Well, I do like the vampire template. The NA stacks on top of the minotaur's own NA, and it does grant some potent stat boosts. The downside is that without a con score, rage lasts just 3 rounds, though you could cheat a little and swap in extend rage (increasing the duration to 8 rounds).

He won't have a lot of hp (15d12 averages just shy of 100, though you can try and mitigate this with hp-improving items like amulet of tears (MIC, grants temp hp) and abilities (improved toughness for extra hp).

[ClothedInVelvet]

You could bring him back as a skeleton or zombie minotaur and then back him up with a few more skeleton or zombie minotaurs. But no undead template is going to give him the advantages that made him worth fighting when he was lvl 9.

I think you should re-evaluate your stance on your abomination. The "he is what he is" mindset doesn't leave much room for a long-running villain. And since most yuan-ti have their minds set on divinity or at least uber-power, I would contend that he would be actively working on developing his power.

I believe there's a build for a yuan-ti anathema in one of the books, but I don't remember which one. Fiend Folio? Have your BBEG develop a bit, especially if the PCs haven't eradicated him.

[Serpentine]

He's not that long-running. In fact, this is gonna be the last we'll see of him. The possibility of him suddenly turning into an anaethema out of sheer fury and frustration is an interesting one, though... But he can be advanced through items and levels, just not templates - especially not bloodline templates. Maybe some acquired ones, they just have to make sense.

Runestar: But the image... It just doesn't work for me :/ Guess I could have another look at the vampire variants, but... I dunno. It just doesn't look/feel right, y'know? I want it to tread out of the shadows, snort, enter the light, and have it gradually dawn on the party that this guy is definitely, well and truly, dead. Except not. And also I can't see a minotaur sucking blood...

My main concern with the undead bit is mostly image and coolness. Power can be taken care of later if need be. Bonus if the undead type also makes it kick arse, but it's not essential. I'm also able to add the templates for undead creatures, by the way, if that helps.

Plegh. I always seem so negative with these things... But I really do appreciate the input! Everything's helpful, even if I don't go with it!

[ClothedInVelvet]

Raise him from the dead as a standard minotaur, advance him a few levels, and flavor him differently. He doesn't have to have an undead template for you to make him undead.

Look at Angel (from Buffy, the Vampire Slayer). Every time he came back, he used the same mechanics, but when he came back and was completely evil (soulless), he was an awesome villain. So have your minotaur come out of the shadows, his eyes glowing, his flesh beginning to fall off, and his paw scraping the ground. But let him keep his Con, boost his levels, maybe give him some turn resistance, etc.

You're the DM, you are all-powerful. The mechanics are simply there to help YOU facilitate the game. You are not bound by anything.

[Serpentine]

Mm, true, true. It'd be nice to have something to start from as a base, though :/
Ah, you're right. Still taking ideas on what I should do with it, then.

Think I like the idea of the same old yuan-ti turning up and then BAM snakes everywhere!

[ThatLovin'Elan]

My stance is "fluff first, crunch second," which seems to be yours as well.

Just make him as undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm) as you want him to be. Maybe make all his racial HD 12s, give him a good will save and immunity to mind-effecting effects, immune to crits, etc. and say he's a molding, murderous corpse come to eat their flesh. Slap on a few levels of Barbarian (maybe Warblade to give him some fun tricks) and let the rest of the increase in pain come from the other enemies contributing.

[Serpentine]

My stance is "fluff first, crunch second," which seems to be yours as well.Yep, definitely. Mechanics serve concept, not the other way round.

Alright, I'm winging the undead aspect of Morndrax. I'm looking for ideas on just what sort of abilities his undeadedness should give him (so far I'm thinking increased Strength, lowered Intelligence and possibly Dexterity, and general undead stuff), and also would like thoughts on equipment. He previously had a +1 breastplate and a +1 anarchic flaming wounding greataxe (large sized, of course), but the party's taken and sold those. He also had the back-up of kobold spell-casters specifically geared towards making him as powerful as possible, which he doesn't have anymore, so anything I can pile onto him equipment-wise will be useful.
So, any ideas on sweet undead Barbarian minotaur equipment?

Think I'm gonna go with the anaethema idea, by the way. Just gotta remember where the durn thing is...

[Medic!]

The psuedonatural(sp?) template should give you just about the CR boost you're after. I'm AFB atm, last place I remember seeing the template was in the epic level handbook, but don't let that throw you off. Mostly I remember it coming with some fairly stout ability score increases and a diminishing return on CR increase depending on how many HD the base creature had.

Always made me think of Ninja Turtles and Super Shredder getting all mutated and deformed and raaaaawrrrrghghghghaaghahg. And no worries about someone face-smashing the undead nasty with a disruption weapon and prematurely ending what could be a pretty intense fist full of closure.

[Serpentine]

Horly carp, the anathema is CR 18! :smalleek: That's too much!
Maybe I could merge it and the abomination to something in-between, though... But are there any other ideas?

[Medic!]

Woooooo just looked it up in at the office, forgot about the pretty sizeable AC boost that comes with a pseudonatural template, and the CR increase is larger than I had remembered. (I might be silghtly hung over this morning, I claim no harm no foul) Still might be workable depending on how resourceful your party is, with a bit of adjusting as well to bring its defensive abilities more in line with party capabilities.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Pseudonatural_Creature_(Epic_Template)

[Runestar]

I think he is talking about the pseudonatural template in complete arcane, which gives a modest boost of +1/+2 cr at most. :smalltongue:

[Serpentine]

Yeah, there's actually a couple of different Pseudonatural templates.
I'm thinking refluffed half-farspawn could work, though... I feel a bit bad, but. A recent thread of mine was about helping a poison-focussed PC. Half-farspawn and undead are both immune to poisons :/ Could be a chance to try out the other abilities I was gonna add to his blowgun, though... Alternatively, I could make the minotaur sort of "almost-undead", with just a resistance to poisons.

[Serpentine]

Okay, I've applied the boring Undead stuff to Morndrax and gave him +6 Strength and -5 Intelligence. What other awesome stuff should he have? And what equipment should I have him? Probably just armour and axe, possibly a couple of other things.
edit: Also a feat. No idea what to pick...

[faceroll]

If he's crafted by a corpsecrafter specialist necromancer with strengthened undead alternative class feature on a desecrated altar, he gets 1d12+6 hp/level. That's a barbarian with 22 con worth of HP. Not bad. He also gets +4 dex/str, and you can throw on other corpsecrafting feats for no CR increase.

He's also eligible for being spell stitched; minotaurs have good wisdom. I'd do it. Definitely worth the +1 CR if you come through the good spells.

That's all if you feel like you need to be hamstrung by the rules. I'd just give him ad hoc bonus HP and natural armor, cause that seems like a good amount. And then give him some good spells/spell effects and let him cast them as swift actions so he's not hosed by action advantage.

I've always been a fan of making my minotaurs devout acolytes of chaos and slaughter. They take levels of cleric. I'm not sure if multiclass cleric does a whole lot for you, though. I suppose DMM quicken so he can be throwing out bane/bless/hold person. Just for the feel of his dark powers and chanting, not necessarily because they'd be efficient.

The idea of him mounted is good, and has the potential for getting a lot of damage out of him. Dragon mounts are always cool. Some kind of worm-y creature would be cool, too. Like a Kyuss spawn or something.

[Serpentine]

Mm, I should definitely throw a bunch of undead templates on him. Thanks. Sorta leaning against a mount, now, though...
Any thoughts on equipment?

edit: Undead Morndrax's character sheet (http://pifro.com/pro/view.php?id=7297) if anyone's interested.

[Runestar]

He's large, right? Would a dire rhino work?

Also, can't view the character sheet. Something about it not being publicly viewable. Do I need to create an account?

[Serpentine]

Nope, I just need to make it public. ...done
And nah, rhino won't work in an America-based continent.

[faceroll]

Nope, I just need to make it public.
And nah, rhino won't work in an America-based continent.

It's america based all the way down to a lack of a faunal interchange with the Africa-based continent?


What about a dinosaur? A battletitan would be pretty swanky.

[Serpentine]

Nope. They're on a Lost World type continent. Sorry guys :smalltongue:

[faceroll]

Nope. They're on a Lost World type continent. Sorry guys :smalltongue:

How are dinosaurs NOT part of a lost world continent? Lost worlds always have dinosaurs.

[Serpentine]

Sorry, my bad wording. The dinosaurs are on a Lost World type continent. This one's just pre-Columbus Americas.

[faceroll]

What about a giant terror bird from HELL? Or is a minotaur on a chocobo too silly?

[Serpentine]

A little silly. Also with the templates (and half-templates) I've stuck on Morndrax, it might be a tough battle as-is.

[panaikhan]

throwing my 2cp in.
I'm sure there are some pretty freaky Outsider-based herd animals.

Give the Minotaur some 'Battle Cattle'-esque minions, and have him ride in on the Dominant Male.

[Kogak]

Any thoughts on equipment?

Might I suggest a Profane and/or Profane Burst weapon (MIC pg. 40). The enchantment capitalizes on your enemy being undead and causing as much hurt as possible. Even when the party wins, his weapon could potentially hurt them if they use it without previously identifying it. This is equal to a +2 bonus (+3 total for obligatory +1 enchant).

You could also go for Brilliant Energy on a ranged weapon and have him start from the back of a horde of undead that he can fire straight through at the party. If you are feeling really mean and do not mind throwing a +7 total weapon, combine the two and have an undead minotaur with a weapon largely useless against other undead.

The "bone creature" (BoVD, pg. 184) is a good template for hiding a sentient undead amidst normal skeletons as well. Retains intelligence and gains a few other boosts, but you'll lose nat. AC in the process. Toss on "Destructive Retribution" (LM, Pg. 26) to the flunky skeletons and suddenly a room full of unintelligent skeletons takes one a new aspect. I suppose "Undead Lieutenant" could give your minotaur direct control over undead he would not otherwise have, and Iron Bones could give him a boost to his AC regardless of undead type (Both SC, Pg. 226 & 125 respectively).

Flipping through the SC I also noticed "Vile Death" if you want to give him the fiendish template (Pg. 229). Hope some of this is helpful.

[Legendairy]

Throw him an axe that bestows negative levels(as he's immune it will just yank them from your players) if the encounter is already looking too tough thm you may not want to do that. As far as a mount goes what about some sort of undead lizard? A skeletal dire crocodile/monitor lizard? An undead dire bear with barding? A rotting bulette? That way you could make it simply a skeleton or zombie won't be too tough just looks great to have a big rotting bull man riding an even bigger rotting or skeletal "steed"

[llamamushroom]

I'm not sure about you, but I'm fond of bringing back undead with odd disadvantages. For instance, maybe this minotaur chap's eyes decayed, so he's a blind generic undead minotaur. As to advantages you can toss on, a broken-off hand leaves a mighty sharp poking stick, which can be improved with a combination of natural weapon shenanigans and DM fiat.

Of course, there's the ever-popular snake-thing animates a corpse (a la Deathly Hallows), so somehow combining both of your bad guys into one super-baddie is an option. Unfortunately, when I DM, it tends to go down the road of "hmm, this is a cool idea, I'll assign rough numbers to it and see if the partyohgod they're winning halfway through round 1 *cue sudden HP boost and damage output*"

EDIT: As to a mount (if you still want one), a New World continent tends to have bison, which I think make good mounts for cow-men, if only for the amusing mental image. Especially undead cow-men on zombie bison. It's like Cows With Guns all over again!