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ThatLovin'Elan
2011-10-15, 10:19 AM
I'm going to slowly post a review of Psionics Expanded (http://paizo.com/store/games/roleplayingGames/p/pathfinderRPG/dreamscarredPress/v5748btpy8krr/discuss) from the POV of someone who's pre-ordered. Even before I begin, let me say: I very much enjoy the new classes, feats, and Archetypes, and would recommend pre-ordering. Even what is up now is well-worth $10, and they've only released 3 out of 6 installments.

I'll be posting 6 times. Format will probably be:

1. Intro and Vitalist
2. Mind over Body
3. Marksman
4. Find the Mark
5. Aegis
6. Unlimited Possibilities

For now I will be talking in generalities: What a DM/Player should expect from the class, comparisons with existing classes, and so on. Once it's officially out and posted on the SRD I might update with more specifics.

I'll go ahead and link the Dreamscarred Press (http://dreamscarredpress.com/dragonfly/ForumsPro/viewforum/f=2.html) forums for people who want to Beta test some of the upcoming content.

I'm DMing a campaign in which a Blue Psion is using some of the feats and alternate racial features; I'm also throwing these guys at my PCs as enemies. I'll try to include my personal experience as much as I can.

1. Vitalist

TL;DR: The Vitalist is a powerful option for a player or NPC who wants or needs to be a healer, but doesn't want to be a Cleric.

First of all, here is a preview of the Vitalist (http://watermark.rpgnow.com/pdf_previews/91622-sample.pdf).

The Vitalist is a healing psionic class. It is also, to a certain extent, a Pathfinder update of the Worldthought Medic (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/worldthought-medic), a 3.5 DPS offering. Instead of just slapping a "Cure X Wounds" power and calling it a day, DSP came up with an interesting system where the Vitalist creates a "network" that can share wounds and healing. the Vitalist can manifest a healing power on himself, and then spread the benefit to members of his collective. The size, versatility, and power of this network increase as the Vitalist levels. A number of powers can be manifested on members of the collective outside of the normal range of the power.

I need to slap a big warning sign on the class right here though: The Vitalist is a Tier 1-2 class. Allow me to quote:


A vitalist never needs to prepare powers ahead of time; he draws them from his mind when needed. When a Vitalist recovers his daily power points after resting, he may choose to rotate one or more powers he knows for new ones. These powers must always be chosen from the vitalist power list, and the maximum number of powers the vitalist may know at any one time in this fashion is listed on Table: The Vitalist. If a vitalist learns a power through other means, such as the Expanded Knowledge feat or psychic chirurgery, this power is known in addition to his normal powers. He may never exchange it for another power from the Vitalist list when he chooses his powers known, and it doesn’t count against his limit of powers known at any one time.

The Vitalist is a spontaneous manifester with a divine spellcasting-like ability to rotate their powers known. By definition, having access to their entire power list, with powers up to 9th level known, they would be a tier 1 class, but I could see a viable argument for them being very high tier 2 because they don't have the best power list. The point remains: In a campaign with a Psion, Wizard, Oracle, and Witch, a Vitalist will be right at home. In a campaign with a Monk, Fighter, Cavalier, and Gunslinger, the Vitalist will have unprecedented power and versatility over them.

Beyond manifesting, the Vitalist gains excellent class features, being able to drain health from opponents (including a save or die class feature), monitor his collective from range, and their choice of three "Methods," akin to Psion Disciplines. The Guardian can buff his allies defenses (AC, saves, PR, resistances, DR), the Mender restores his allies (getting better HP healing and status effect removal), and the Soulthief, who enhances his ability to drain opponents' lives to fuel his collective.

ThatLovin'Elan
2011-10-15, 10:20 AM
2. Mind Over Body

ThatLovin'Elan
2011-10-15, 10:22 AM
3. Marksman

TL;DR: The Marksman is an excellent answer to someone who is underwhelmed at the possibility of playing a Ranger or Fighter.

Here is the sample of Find the Mark (http://watermark.rpgnow.com/pdf_previews/92710-sample.pdf).


I'll compare the Marksman to an archery-focused Ranger, as I think the comparison is a valid one.

Here's the boring, book-keeping stuff:

Both have Full BAB and D10. The Ranger has 6 skill points a level to the Marksman's 4, but they have differing class skills - not that class skills are extremely important in Pathfinder, but it's worth noting; a few noteworthy skills the Ranger can boast are Handle Animal, Heal, Spellcraft, and a few useful Knowledges, while the Marksman gets Acrobatics, Autohypnosis, and Use Magical Device. Both have a good Reflex saves; the Ranger favors Fortitude while the Marksman favors Will. Overall, I'd put the Ranger slightly in the lead here because of his skill points per level.

Now to more interesting things. The Ranger does not gain spellcasting until level 4, assuming a decent Wisdom score. The Marksman, on the other hand, has a power point from level 1, allowing him to become psionically focused and take psionic feats; at level 2, he gets his first power known. At level 20, a Ranger with a Wisdom of 14 has five level 1 spells per day, five level 2, three level 3, and four level 4. At level 20, a Marksman with a Wisdom of 14 has 90 PP a day, and knows 12 powers of up to 4th level, meaning he can manifest between 90 level 1 power and 12 level 4 powers a day. As far as the power of said spells/powers, they're extremely similar; both get enhanced movement, vision, combat prowess, a smattering of crowd control, and the like. In the end, it's a crapshoot between if you like psionics or Vancian casting.

More to come!

ThatLovin'Elan
2011-10-15, 10:23 AM
4. Find the Mark

ThatLovin'Elan
2011-10-15, 10:25 AM
5. Aegis

TL;DR: This is a highly flexible melee combatant; kind of like a Synthesist Summoner without all the cheese and weird rule quandaries..

First of all, here's the preview of the Aegis (http://watermark.rpgnow.com/pdf_previews/95327-sample.pdf).

Second, I need to stress that the Aegis is probably a tier-4, fairly balanced class. He does not reek of cheese like a Synthesist.

The Aegis gets D10, Full BAB, 4+INT skill ranks/level (and a nice set of class skills), good Fort and Will saves, power points (but no powers known; bonus power points keyed off INT), and proficiency with all simple and martial weapons. As far as minor class features go, the Aegis can repair mudane items quickly, gets a bonus on Craft checks, and the Master Craftsman feat for free.

The big class feature of the Aegis is his Astral Suit, a manifested, customizable armor. Apart from normal things like AC and DR/- (from second level!), the suit gains "Customization points" that function like evolution points for an Eidolon.

[More to come]

ThatLovin'Elan
2011-10-15, 10:26 AM
6. Unlimited Possibilities

Ok to post!

Rentaromon
2011-10-15, 04:10 PM
5. Aegis

TL;DR: This is a Synthesist Summoner without all the cheese and weird rule quandaries..

i want to hear more!!!! the big question is do i still get crazy hp like i do as a synthesist summoner and his 35HD at lvl 20.

Drothmal
2011-10-15, 06:12 PM
5. Aegis

TL;DR: This is a Synthesist Summoner without all the cheese and weird rule quandaries..

I'd be very very interested in hearing more about this. I love the idea of a synthesist, but I think I will die of old age before Paizo decides to errata/clarify the class

ThatLovin'Elan
2011-10-16, 12:18 PM
Hmm. Looks like people are most interested about the Aegis... I'll update that next, probably sometime today.

Rentaromon
2011-10-18, 01:33 PM
found a download for the beta v3 aegis.

some impressive customization, by lvl 6 you can be powerfull tank and in battle and by spending a little of your PP you can gain access to movement and utility options for a short time.

u have 3 armor types you can switch to, a light one that gives speed and movement, middle that gives some armor and attack options and heavy that is just tanking.

big stats: all physical for fighting, intelligence because it increases the time you can use your PP changes and a few other small things.


id say always choose the elan for race so you have somewhere to put all the power points u get. you can pump the power points to stop damage as you take it, gain bonuses on saves, and taking a PP every level instead of the normal HP or skill point is like adding 2 HP.

i only see 2 big downsides, its hard to change on the fly as a change will take PP and only last a few turns. and changing armor types during the day means a lot of powers u have will become useless, like if you make your armor more flexible so you get a dex bonus in the heavy armor becomes useless in the light armor. I think all 3 of your armors should have their own set of powers chosen when the armor is crafted.

my own little review. overall it looks freaking great!!!

Fax Celestis
2011-10-18, 02:01 PM
I am a giant fan of PsiEx thus far. I'm currently playing a Marksman, and I have plans for a Gifted Soulknife/Aegis/Metaforge and a Nomad/Psicrystal Imprinter. Very happy with the powers, glad that its introducing Talents (basically psionic cantrips), and am impressed that PsiUn and PsiEx together make an all-psi game in PF not only possible, but feasible.

I spent the $10 on the PDFs of this before I had even read a review, solely on DSP's history, and I regret nothing. With it this good, I'd've spent $25 for a PDF, and I will most likely get a hardcopy of PsiEx like I did with PsiUn.

Caphi
2011-10-18, 02:27 PM
Metaforge on a gifted blade is beautiful. Swap your one level 1 power known every morning out of almost anything on the psywar list (expansion! precog! vigor!), rotate 3-4 customization points a day, and choose between evasion, mettle, and crushing damage on the fly, and stay reasonable with all the aegis goodies like flight. I haven't had this much fun building melee assault since my swordsage.

Rentaromon
2011-10-18, 03:55 PM
Metaforge on a gifted blade is beautiful. Swap your one level 1 power known every morning out of almost anything on the psywar list (expansion! precog! vigor!), rotate 3-4 customization points a day, and choose between evasion, mettle, and crushing damage on the fly, and stay reasonable with all the aegis goodies like flight. I haven't had this much fun building melee assault since my swordsage.

dam now im real tempted to buy the thing!

stainboy
2011-10-18, 06:20 PM
I am really impressed with the Vitalist's class features, especially the Collective mechanic. Anyone seen the Vitalist power list?

gourdcaptain
2011-10-18, 06:42 PM
I am really impressed with the Vitalist's class features, especially the Collective mechanic. Anyone seen the Vitalist power list?

Yeah, it's entirely buff/heal powers. And kinda skinny at the higher levels.

stainboy
2011-10-18, 06:51 PM
Yeah, it's entirely buff/heal powers. And kinda skinny at the higher levels.

Awwww.

Ok, I can't remember, does Hidden Talent still exist in Psionics Unleashed? Can I use that to get around the rule against learning out-of-class powers?

Fax Celestis
2011-10-18, 06:54 PM
You mean Expanded Knowledge? Yeah, it exists, and it works.

stainboy
2011-10-18, 06:58 PM
Vitalists have a specific prohibition against learning non-Vitalist powers with EK. E: Wait, no they don't, I completely misread that. Cool.

The Glyphstone
2011-10-18, 07:00 PM
How does the Marksman match up to the Psychic Warrior, since it seems like a Ranger-Psywarrior hybrid by the description?

Psyren
2011-10-18, 07:12 PM
I spent the $10 on the PDFs of this before I had even read a review, solely on DSP's history, and I regret nothing. With it this good, I'd've spent $25 for a PDF, and I will most likely get a hardcopy of PsiEx like I did with PsiUn.

They're creating a "deluxe edition" hardcover that supposedly will have PsU and PsEx combined inside, plus all the errata. Just a heads up. :smallwink:


Vitalists have a specific prohibition against learning non-Vitalist powers with EK.

Not only is this quite wrong, they go out of their way to tell you that Vitalists can learn any power with EK.

Mind Over Body pg. 2:

"Choose your powers known from the vitalist power list. (Exception: The feat Expanded Knowledge does allow a vitalist to learn powers from the lists of other classes.)"


How does the Marksman match up to the Psychic Warrior, since it seems like a Ranger-Psywarrior hybrid by the description?

Psywar is still better. Quite apart from the fact that 6ths > 4ths, Psywars get enough options to rival Marksmen at their own schtick (ranged combat) while still mopping the floor with them in melee. About the only real advantage MM has over them is full BAB.

stainboy
2011-10-18, 07:13 PM
Yeah, I know, just edited above. I misread that as:



(Exception: The feat Expanded Knowledge does not allow a vitalist to learn powers from the lists of other classes.)

Psyren
2011-10-18, 07:18 PM
Also, Vitalists get EK twice as a bonus feat, more or less nudging you into branching out from the healy stuff.

But healing is most definitely not all they can do. My guide to them is pretty comprehensive and almost complete.

Fax Celestis
2011-10-18, 07:48 PM
How does the Marksman match up to the Psychic Warrior, since it seems like a Ranger-Psywarrior hybrid by the description?

Marksmen are better at archery, but psywars are better at pretty much everything else.