PDA

View Full Version : How to make a Good Xananthos Gambit?



ExtravagantEvil
2011-10-15, 01:27 PM
Loki_42, Please stay out for now. If I seek your advice it will be later

Hello :smallsmile:
I recently looked through some of the Stuff on Yugoloths this morning for no real reason. I recenty came up with something interesting concerning them.
Seeing as how their Main goals are manipulating the blood war, and capitalizing off of it, and storming the Planes of Good, I got to thinking about it. It sounds like an interesting campaign idea to fight off the Yugoloths advancements towards destruction of good.

I pondered the secrecy and how they operate so I thought the idea of an Illuminati style group slowly manipulating it all into place, for a good final execution. What I thought was engineering the Blood War to spill into the Prime Material, and slowly throughout the other planes to eventually attack the planes of good.

So I imagined a Xananthos Gamit going on for the Big Bad Yugoloth to institute. I Know it'll involve infiltration into Earthly affairs and planting agents but I like some real specifics.

So what are the playgrounds thoughts on the idea, and any advice you can offer I'n making a real quality Xananthos Gambit.

TheThan
2011-10-15, 05:25 PM
Well I can't really give you ideas on how to run your campaign but here's some advice on how to set up a good xanatos gambit.


All good xanatos gambits have three parts. They are the setup, the big reveal, and the Inevitable defeat. I’ll try to go over each one of them in turn.

Part I, The Setup
The setup is where almost all the action takes place. It is when your mastermind(s) set up their chess-pieces and manipulate people to do things for him (them). From a story perspective the audience needs to be queued in on what is happening behind the scenes. The audience needs to know that these people are being manipulated, and that things are falling into place for the mastermind. However they don’t need to know all the details of what is happening. Just an outline and an idea of key people are being used.
While this approach works great from a storytelling perspective (books, movies etc), it unfortunately doesn’t work at all for a role-playing game. Instead what you need to do is keep them in the dark about what the secret plans are, or who the mastermind really is. Otherwise they’re just going to try to kill him early. We don’t want that at all.

So what I suggest is to make your players be the pawns for your chess master. Give them missions that on the outside look good and helpful to the community (say slaying a demon for instance), heck these quests can even actually be helpful to the party and whomever else is involved. As long as the result of the quests actually favor the chess master. Maybe killing the above demon for him gives him favor with a devil, or he needs the demon’s heart for some macguffin. Be creative.

After all the pieces are maneuvered into place, then we can move onto the next part. Keep in mind the number one mistake you can make is to skip this part. it will lead to players calling BS on your story.

Part II, The Big Reveal
The second act is where the big bad chess master gets to stand up, cackle like the wicked witch of the west and say stuff like “just as I have planned!, buahahah”. It’s pretty easy to set up, and is usually the climax of the story. Usually something bad happens, that portal to the demon world you thought was closed opens up and a horde of demons start poring through, whatever. The main point that the heroes LOSE (temporarily mind you), and everything goes to hell fast. The important part here is to show them that the things (it doesn't have to be everything mind you), they did in part one really does fall into his plans. people are likely to call BS on you, but you've got proof to back your claims, buahah.

Part III, The Inevitable Defeat
This is the final act in our story. The heroes manage to band together and overcome whatever bad things happened in act two and manage to somehow defeat our big bad chess master. Usually via killing him and undoing/destroying whatever his plan was. Now this typically happens immediately after the big reveal, but sometimes time can go by. Take star wars, there’s a 25 year span between the emperors’ order 66 (which wiped out the Jedi, and allowed him to ascend to emperor) and his death and defeat at the hands of Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker. Keep in mind also that just because the heroes win, doesn’t mean there aren’t repercussions and consequences, there is always an aftermath, even if it is that everyone lives happily ever after.

Shadowknight12
2011-10-16, 12:11 AM
The main problem you'll run smack against is the fact that good aligned outsiders are just as smart and probably even wiser than yugoloths, therefore making the gambit plot a bit incredible.

Oracle_Hunter
2011-10-16, 01:08 AM
Well I can't really give you ideas on how to run your campaign but here's some advice on how to set up a good xanatos gambit.


All good xanatos gambits have three parts. They are the setup, the big reveal, and the enviable defeat. I’ll try to go over each one of them in turn.

Part I, The Setup
The setup is where almost all the action takes place. It is when your mastermind(s) set up their chess-pieces and manipulate people to do things for him (them). From a story perspective the audience needs to be queued in on what is happening behind the scenes. The audience needs to know that these people are being manipulated, and that things are falling into place for the mastermind. However they don’t need to know all the details of what is happening. Just an outline and an idea of key people are being used.
While this approach works great from a storytelling perspective (books, movies etc), it unfortunately doesn’t work at all for a role-playing game. Instead what you need to do is keep them in the dark about what the secret plans are, or who the mastermind really is. Otherwise they’re just going to try to kill him early. We don’t want that at all.

So what I suggest is to make your players be the pawns for your chess master. Give them missions that on the outside look good and helpful to the community (say slaying a demon for instance), heck these quests can even actually be helpful to the party and whomever else is involved. As long as the result of the quests actually favor the chess master. Maybe killing the above demon for him gives him favor with a devil, or he needs the demon’s heart for some macguffin. Be creative.

After all the pieces are maneuvered into place, then we can move onto the next part. Keep in mind the number one mistake you can make is to skip this part. it will lead to players calling BS on your story.

Part II, The Big Reveal
The second act is where the big bad chess master gets to stand up, cackle like the wicked witch of the west and say stuff like “just as I have planned!, buahahah”. It’s pretty easy to set up, and is usually the climax of the story. Usually something bad happens, that portal to the demon world you thought was closed opens up and a horde of demons start poring through, whatever. The main point that the heroes LOSE (temporarily mind you), and everything goes to hell fast. The important part here is to show them that the things (it doesn't have to be everything mind you), they did in part one really does fall into his plans. people are likely to call BS on you, but you've got proof to back your claims, buahah.

Part III, The Enviable Loss
This is the final act in our story. The heroes manage to band together and overcome whatever bad things happened in act two and manage to somehow defeat our big bad chess master. Usually via killing him and undoing/destroying whatever his plan was. Now this typically happens immediately after the big reveal, but sometimes time can go by. Take star wars, there’s a 25 year span between the emperors’ order 66 (which wiped out the Jedi, and allowed him to ascend to emperor) and his death and defeat at the hands of Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker. Keep in mind also that just because the heroes win, doesn’t mean there aren’t repercussions and consequences, there is always an aftermath, even if it is that everyone lives happily ever after.


OK, that's really good advice. Take it!

Additionally, remember the key detail to any Xanatos Gambit (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/XanatosGambit): "At its most basic, the Xanatos Gambit assumes two possible outcomes by the one manipulated - success or failure. The plan is designed in such a way that either outcome will ultimately further your goals."

As a DM, you can make use of any number of Illusionist tricks (e.g. Schrodinger's Gun (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitleocg6iflv079q)) to "manipulate" even the most savvy of PCs into a Xanatos Gambit. However, such manipulations will be likely be transparent uses of DM Fiat before long, making a good Gambit hard to pull off. To that end, follow The Than's approach -- Players like winning, so when it turns out their victories result in the BBEG's temporary victory, they won't be so cheesed off.

If you're worried about Shadowknight12's concerns, you can always include "rivals" paid off by the Forces of Good who are trying to thwart a given PC's secret mission. Few PCs will abandon their Starter Quest even if Paladins tell them to stop it, but you will need to plan how a PC failing their mission will forward the BBEG's plot as well.

Good luck!