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View Full Version : How can I make my players faster?



tribble
2011-10-15, 08:36 PM
So, D&D is tons of fun, we all like it, blah blah blah. Thing is, approximately half my group takes actions with all the purpose of a Dostoevsky novel. I try to hurry them along, but they just seem to zone out during combat when it isn't their turn and so they take two or three times as long to do their thing as the rest of the group. It shouldn't take us over three hours to run a bossfight just because we spend so much time wrangling them back from the kitchen and/or listening to them "uhh" and "um". We're all new to the system, but still, this is not a problem I'm willing to allow to go unfixed. We simply don't have the time to keep it up like this.

How can a DM make his players play faster in combat, short of flogging them with a bullwhip?

NecroRebel
2011-10-15, 08:41 PM
Impose time limits on turns, maybe? Like, if they don't successfully decide on their actions within a minute of it becoming their turn, their character paused in indecision and so doesn't act.

Also, have you discussed this problem with the players who are causing it? Often, they don't realize how bad things are, so they have no reason to change, so they don't. The very first measure you should take is to ask them to try to change their ways.

If all else fails, the bullwhip idea might work.

Dr.Epic
2011-10-15, 09:23 PM
Impose time limits on turns, maybe? Like, if they don't successfully decide on their actions within a minute of it becoming their turn, their character paused in indecision and so doesn't act.

Pretty much. You could even make it shorter. A player should know what they want to do at the start of their turn. They have everyone else's turn to decide on this. They take too long, just make them loose their turn. Also, how long have they been playing? This doesn't seem the thing a seasoned player short be doing.

prufock
2011-10-15, 09:54 PM
we spend so much time wrangling them back from the kitchen
If you aren't at the table when your turn comes, either a) your character takes the "delay" action or b) we skip your turn. We're NOT waiting for you to make a sandwich.


and/or listening to them "uhh" and "um". We're all new to the system, but still, this is not a problem I'm willing to allow to go unfixed.
Do you use a grid and minis, or at least some representations? That can help if you find yourself having to repeat who is where and doing what.
Make a list of their possible basic actions that they can consult when their turn comes. This type of player should not be playing wizards, because they have too many options for them to handle.

tribble
2011-10-15, 10:11 PM
no, they're not particularly seasoned. one is new to tactical movement and whatnot, and maybe just a little bit under par in terms of brains. The other is my baby sister (she's 12, but baby of the family, yknow.) and this is her first table top.

Ravens_cry
2011-10-15, 10:30 PM
Just impose some common sense rules like "No electronics at the table." With all the things a Star Trek PADD crossed with a communicator smartphone can do and distract with, these nifty little gadgets can be a major timesink on the tabletop if not removed.
Other then that other then gentle encouragement, what you really need is some patience, on your part.
By the sounds of it, many of your players are new and well, it takes time to get used this game. Sure, it's just addition and occasional subtraction but some people ( I consider myself this certainly) don't handle maths, even simple maths, under pressure well.
Egging someone like that to get a move on is only going to make things worse.
Be there to offer extra-session help at helping them remember what they need to remember and doing things more quickly.
Remember, we were all Newbies once.

Shpadoinkle
2011-10-15, 10:33 PM
I think "No electronics at the gaming table" and "You have 90 seconds (or however long) to decide your action once your turn comes up or else your turn gets skipped" will make things go a lot faster.

valadil
2011-10-15, 10:34 PM
When you call initiative call out whose turn it is now and whose turn it is next. That way the next player has a full round to finish peeing, read the map, and figure out an action.

erikun
2011-10-15, 10:37 PM
Less combat, perhaps? If every session is half a dozen fights in a row with a few out-of-combat rolls the rogue does, then perhaps it isn't too surprising that the players are getting bored with it towards the end.

tribble
2011-10-15, 10:41 PM
I think I will impose the rules about being at the table or your turn is skipped and the one-minute turn rule as well as get them to write out shortlists of their powers and the effects. Thanks for the help. I'm new to DMing, myself.

Tengu_temp
2011-10-15, 10:53 PM
How can a DM make his players play faster in combat, short of flogging them with a bullwhip?

Make it fun for yourself! Each time a player's turn is up, put a tiny hourglass on the table. If the sand runs out and the player still hasn't made an action, start shooting at him/her with a water gun until s/he does.

Geddoe
2011-10-16, 04:05 AM
Impose time limits on turns, maybe? Like, if they don't successfully decide on their actions within a minute of it becoming their turn, their character paused in indecision and so doesn't act.

The Devil's Advocate arguement is:

It would be really frustrating to be repeatedly forced into things that you look back on as bad decisions because you felt rushed by the gm, especially if it results in character death.

Jamin
2011-10-16, 04:37 AM
The Devil's Advocate arguement is:

It would be really frustrating to be repeatedly forced into things that you look back on as bad decisions because you felt rushed by the gm, especially if it results in character death.

You do realize that each round in DnD is 6 secs. You players should feel lucky you give them 10 times that to think.

Ravens_cry
2011-10-16, 04:59 AM
You do realize that each round in DnD is 6 secs. You players should feel lucky you give them 10 times that to think.
I suppose they should be lucky they don't have to LARP the battles or cast the magic spells, hmm?
It is a GAME, and games are supposed to be FUN. When you are just starting out, being pressured is NOT fun.
Encouragement to speed things up, sure. But far more carrot than stick should be used in this situation in my opinion.

gomanfox
2011-10-16, 05:13 AM
I suppose they should be lucky they don't have to LARP the battles or cast the magic spells, hmm?
It is a GAME, and games are supposed to be FUN. When you are just starting out, being pressured is NOT fun.
Encouragement to speed things up, sure. But far more carrot than stick should be used in this situation in my opinion.

It may not be fun for players to feel pressured by the DM, but it's not fun for other players or the DM to need to wait 3-5 minutes for a person to figure out what to do.

I think a time limit would be best, a minute would work since you have newer players (although would be generous for experienced players), and it should be enough time for someone to figure out what they are going to do. If they don't start saying anything by that time, you could either have their character do nothing, or take a full defense action.

If there are players that constantly have the problem of not making the time limit, make sure to encourage them to figure out what to do in while other players are taking their turns. It's possible that things will change before it gets to their turn, but it keeps them focused on the game and helps create ideas for what they can do when their turn comes around.

Jamin
2011-10-16, 01:38 PM
I suppose they should be lucky they don't have to LARP the battles or cast the magic spells, hmm?
It is a GAME, and games are supposed to be FUN. When you are just starting out, being pressured is NOT fun.
Encouragement to speed things up, sure. But far more carrot than stick should be used in this situation in my opinion.

ummm it was a joke. :smalleek:

Basket Burner
2011-10-16, 02:09 PM
Persistent Swift Haste.

Ravens_cry
2011-10-16, 02:11 PM
ummm it was a joke. :smalleek:
Unfortunately, that was not obvious.

Zerter
2011-10-16, 02:16 PM
They should miss on vital stuff when not focusing and it should not be repeated.

Funkyodor
2011-10-16, 02:18 PM
You could give a +1 or +2 bonus to attacks or save dc for actions taken within 30 seconds of the start of a turn. That might keep players interested in planing out their characters actions when it's not their turn.

cattoy
2011-10-17, 01:36 PM
chess clock.

Either give bonuses while time remains or penalties when it runs out. Whatever works best.

Jolly
2011-10-17, 03:00 PM
no, they're not particularly seasoned. one is new to tactical movement and whatnot, and maybe just a little bit under par in terms of brains. The other is my baby sister (she's 12, but baby of the family, yknow.) and this is her first table top.

Hardly surprising a 12 year old lacks the focus to sit around for this sort of thing. Are the other players similarly young? Might explain a lot.


Also, instead of penalizing people for not sitting around doing nothing but paying attention (which is often not fun, esp if the DM is not presenting an interesting word picture) consider going to an alternate initiative system, such as the one presented in this article http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/72/initiative-the-silent-killer/

Lord Il Palazzo
2011-10-17, 03:26 PM
I would have qualms about banning electronics at the table for my group. My player group doesn't have many books and mainly plays core 3.5 from the SRD, which players often check via smartphones. As my group is relatively inexperienced, I feel like banning smartphones would simply create more work for me, as players who would have looked up their own info would have to ask me to do it.

That said, if your group's tech use is more to text friends, update facebook and the like rather than to facilitate gameplay, I could see this being reasonable.

Another tip I'll share is that I use a system for tracking initiative in which each player character and each monster has a note card folded in half and stood on the table where everyone can see them. The card farthest to the players' left is the one whose turn it is and, once that character's turn is over, the card moves to the end of the line. This lets everyone see when his turn is going to come up so they can plan accordingly. (It also lets me keep a few notes written on the back of each card so I don't have to constantly ask players what their ACs are and such.)

Vladislav
2011-10-17, 03:39 PM
A system I always likes is to switch "ok, it's Joe's turn, then Jack, than Bob" with "ok, it's the PCs turn". Just let all the PCs take their turns together, interchangeably, in any order they want. This creates better cohesion in the group - because they're acting as a team, rather then one by one, and as a result, better investment in the game and less frequent trips to the kitchen.

Also, since all the PCs take their turn together and they're no "Jack's turn", if does go to the kitchen, no need to wait - just let Joe and Bob take their actions, Jack can act when he's back at the table.

Heatwizard
2011-10-17, 05:58 PM
If you want to teach them a lesson grr, timer. If you just want to get combat moving faster, just let the rest of the party move the absent guy; they'll get what they want(moving teammate), you'll get what you want(faster fights).

Valameer
2011-10-17, 11:05 PM
Once they are more familiar with the system, they will naturally get quicker at making decisions.

And if they don't, consider a timer.

About players being rushed into a decision: I find it fun and exciting. Take that with a grain of salt, 'cause I'm always the DM. Still, though, in an action situation, people make mistakes. Characters make mistakes. Heroes make mistakes. Then they learn from them and grow. You can't execute a meticulously flawless tactical plan every single combat. Sometimes it's more fun if the rogue and the wizard spend two rounds arguing in-character while the others clean up the last few goblins.

Plus, the drama of the occasional disasterous bad decision can be wonderfully angsty. And not that fake angst like vampires have.

AslanCross
2011-10-18, 02:57 AM
I once ran my very first game with a bunch of 12-to-14 year olds. Things did take a while, and since our sessions weren't very long, we progressed at the very brisk pace of 1 encounter per session. I know how you feel.

It might help to have a white board or even a large pad depicting the turn order for everyone to see, so that players start planning their turns even when it isn't their turn yet.

The timer might also help, and if the players are hungry, I suggest either having the food already there (for all you know, they're just slow because they're hungry; this is why even when I teach I let my students eat in class), or having hearty meals during an extended break so they won't be all hungry during the game itself.

Chocolate (especially dark, as it isn't full of sugar) and nuts lend themselves well to keeping brains going, though anything primarily sugar-based is going to get people crashing rather quickly. Also, supposedly anything with mint in it is also going to make people fall asleep quickly.

Ozreth
2011-10-18, 09:52 AM
I have all of the players names on little folded notecards, as well as monsters. As they roll initiative I plop their cards in order over the top of my DM Screen. This way they all have a plain view of the order and even if they don't want to be they will be conscious of the fact that it's about to be there turn and it gets them thinking.

Also I have some of their important stats written on the back.

Project_Mayhem
2011-10-18, 11:23 AM
Changing systems to one with a simpler combat system might work - 3.5 and 4th ed both require a lot of micromanagement, which can put people off

Mustard
2011-10-19, 12:05 PM
Notify the next 1-2 players that their turns are going to come up soon.
Have players figure out good "default" actions to take. Oftentimes, indecision results from situations where a super-optimal decision doesn't really matter.
When the current player decides on an action, let the next player know what that action is, and have them start thinking of theirs.
Maybe make a cheat sheet of combat moves and what action types they are, or action point cost, or whatever the system in use uses for that.
Suggest using note cards or a dry-erase board for calculating attack or damage bonuses based on current buffs, etc.
If the decision takes a while, provide a roleplaying prompt, like "your friend just got attacked - how would your character respond?" The absolute most optimal combat decision is often difficult to figure (Can I get them all in such-and-such AoE? Should I use an item?), but a character's gut reaction may not be so difficult.
If you are really interested in imposing a time limit, the time limit is to come up with a decision, looking up any details should be counted separate.

GungHo
2011-10-19, 01:15 PM
If you aren't at the table when your turn comes, either a) your character takes the "delay" action or b) we skip your turn. We're NOT waiting for you to make a sandwich.
Seriously. Step away in a fight to go get food or shoot the poop on your cell phone and I'm going to make you go last in every turn and your only action will be to defend. I won't specifically target your guy, but I'm not going to not target your guy, either. If you don't want to respect the other people in the game, you're not going to get much respect back.

And, it's not like we do marathons, either. We take plenty of stretch breaks. We're all techies, cops, or medical folks, so we understand "on call".


Do you use a grid and minis, or at least some representations? That can help if you find yourself having to repeat who is where and doing what.
Before we got more money than sense and bought a laptop and a pocket projector, we used to use things like coins, monopoly pieces, and, in my case, bullets.

I always played dwarves or half-orcs, so I used .45s or .44 Mags. The guy who played halflings tried to make fun of me and use a .380. I took it away from him and made him use a .22. We both got one over on the gnome guy when we gave him a pebble from outside. I don't think he ever understood that.


Make a list of their possible basic actions that they can consult when their turn comes. This type of player should not be playing wizards, because they have too many options for them to handle.
If you have to take 7~10 minutes every turn to go look something up, you're playing the wrong class.

This is actually one of the areas where 4E has strengths. You can pick all of your available actions out of a rolodex, no matter what you're playing.

However, as to using egg timers, chess clocks, or other contraptions... you have to be careful with that. While it's important to get the game moving, you also don't want to push people in to feeling they only have enough time to make bad decisions. This will quickly discourage them.

RandomNPC
2011-10-19, 05:08 PM
An old Dragon Magazine had an article called "Shut up and Roll" that was basically this entire thread. I suggest figuring out what things your players are the biggest offenders of and make a list, no more than ten things, and print them out, make sure it's just one page so it can get handed around and not separated. Mine looks a bit like this (From memory, haven't used it in a while)

Shut Up And Roll!
1 ~ Phones off. If you're expecting an important call, occasional exceptions are allowed.
2 ~ Smoke outside after the action.
3 ~ Take your turn, then go get some food, don't sit there for half the round before getting a sammich.
4 ~ That thing, that you saw on YouTube? it can wait.
5 ~ Roll to hit and damage at the same time. If you miss, just ignore the damage dice.

dps
2011-10-19, 10:33 PM
If you don't want to use a bullwhip, a cattle prod is a good option.

GungHo
2011-10-20, 03:00 PM
5 ~ Roll to hit and damage at the same time. If you miss, just ignore the damage dice.
This one is great.

Knaight
2011-10-20, 10:53 PM
Changing systems to one with a simpler combat system might work - 3.5 and 4th ed both require a lot of micromanagement, which can put people off

I'm inclined to agree, particularly as there are some games that are a lot like D&D, but lighter. Starting with the free Warrior Rogue and Mage.