Straight Wizard or Monk 3/Wiz 17?

[Hazard_Pay]

We're playing Pathfinder andI wanted to play a wizard but when I went to roll stats I rolled some ridiculously good stats.
18
17
16
14
13
10
Which I assigned thusly
Str 13
Dex 17
Con 14
Int 18
Wis 16
Cha 10

Despite a low Teir rating I have always been partial to monks.. I thought I would like a few levels for the basic toys, ac bonus, speed etc.

Was thinking monk 3 / wiz 17.

So really the question is, given the ability scores available here and the only real stipulation is to play a wizard who can cast 9th level spells... what would you do? (Straight Wiz? Combo Wiz/X?, Wiz / PRC?)

[Hazard_Pay]

Side note: the setting is 'Forgotten Realms: Faerun' if that sparks some ideas.

[faceroll]

Switch your con and wis.

[Dalek-K]

I say go with it (monk5/wiz15)... Even though you lose 5 levels of Wizard that doesn't mean you won't be useful.

Optimized? No

Fun? Most likely

:D

[The Glyphstone]

Monk 1/Wizard 9/Enlightened Fist 10 is probably the best way to maximize your Monkosity factor while maintaining 9th level spells pre-Epic.


EDIT: Though at least 3 levels of EF should be mandatory, so you can abuse the ambiguous wording of Arcane Fist. Whee full-attack flurry touch spells?

[dextercorvia]

You can buy a Monk's Belt if you want their AC bonus. Speed, similarly can be boosted any number of ways. Unless you plan to get into melee, IUAS, or any of their other bonus feats are going to be wasted on you... Don't try to do too much.

If you want to play a Wizard, play a Wizard -- and if you want to play a Monk, play a Swordsage.

[ranagrande]

I would suggest something similar to The Glyphstone, but I would recommend Monk 1/Wizard 5/Enlightened Fist 9/Abjurant Champion 5.

[The Glyphstone]

I would suggest something similar to The Glyphstone, but I would recommend Monk 1/Wizard 5/Enlightened Fist 9/Abjurant Champion 5.

That is more effective, but it's also 9% less Monky.:smallsmile:

[Runestar]

There's a feat which lets you use int in place of wis for monk abilities. Take that and dump wis (or at least swap it with con). You really don't need or want more than 1 lv of monk. Maybe 2 for deflect arrows and good saves, but that's pretty much it.

[ranagrande]

That is more effective, but it's also 9% less Monky.:smallsmile:

Perhaps Monk 1/Wizard 5/Enlightened Fist 10/Abjurant Champion 4 then? :smalltongue:

[gorfnab]

There's a feat which lets you use int in place of wis for monk abilities.
Carmendine Monk
Kung-Fu Genius

[erikun]

Why are you taking three levels of Monk? One level is sufficient for Wisdom to AC (although it likely won't be high enough to matter much) and two are sufficient for Evasion. Still mind doesn't really get you very much.

What's more, one or two levels of Monk aren't going to help you survive very well at low levels. 16 AC is not very impressive, and you could easily have more than that (with more HP) through just Wizard levels. Sure, your Monk 2/Wizard 1 could have 24 AC for a short time, but a Wizard 3 could have 23 AC for much longer, thanks to being a higher level with more spell slots.

If you do want to play a Monky-Wizard, then I'd suggest the Enlightened Fist PrC + Carmendine Monk feat that others have mentioned, above.

[Hazard_Pay]

@ Dalek-K fun is definitely the high priority, Along the lines of your response, I'd almost consider doing 6 monk 14 wiz, picking up superior unarmed strike and improved natural attack, and a monk's belt
If my math is correct and the DM smokes the imp natural attack, I come out with 3d8 unarmed damage, @ 6th combine that with transmutation buffs and at least 7th level spells to play with later on.

@ The Glyphstone.. flurry touch spells O.o yeah that sounds fun :D

@ Runestar Yeah I will have to track down that int/wis swap feat

To all, ok how bout this? Lets drop monk completely and using the prior stipulation of being a wizard who can cast 9th level spells, what would you do with those stats? (They just seem wasted on a pure wiz, hence the fishing for ideas)

[Hazard_Pay]

@ Gorfnab, Thank you for the timely chime-in :D if I go with levels of monk I'll pick that feat up and stick that 10 in Wisdom

EDIT: Is there a feat which lets me trade some of my ability scores to our Barb who has terrible stats? XD

[faceroll]

Play a Beguiler?

[Andion Isurand]

Unless you need the feat for prerequisites or a combo, a common suggestion I make for a first level only feat for wizards with low wisdom scores is Keen Intellect (Dragon Magazine 318) whereby you may use your Intelligence modifier instead of your Wisdom modifier for Heal, Search, Spot and Survival checks... as well as for Will saves.

With that feat on board, its easier to use Character Traits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm) to whittle your Will saves for bonuses to the other saves. (i.e. Passionate, Jumpy*)

* -1 to Will Saves, +1 to Reflex saves
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I'd also recommend not overlooking the combat variant wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) whereby you gain a fighter bonus feat in place of Scribe Scroll and each normal wizard bonus feat.

[Big Fau]

To all, ok how bout this? Lets drop monk completely and using the prior stipulation of being a wizard who can cast 9th level spells, what would you do with those stats? (They just seem wasted on a pure wiz, hence the fishing for ideas)

Buff up and pretend you are a gish.

[Hazard_Pay]

@ Andion Isurand - I have been looking at the fighter variants, but another possibility I have asked about that the DM is mulling over is Eidetic Spellcaster which would lose Scribe Scroll and my Familiar to eschew my spellbook. (Which really only matters if he had planned on playing 'Steal his spellbook' Games with me)

I'm also considering buying him a bottle of something expensive, getting him drunk and then trying to sneak a Transmutation Domain wizard past his radar >.>

EDIT: Regardless of the outcome I had planned on playing a Human and taking Improved Initiative Via the first level human bonus feat... going first is good.

[Eldariel]

What sources are you working with? You could actually make a rather impressive Wizard Gish with those stats; Ranger 1/Wizard 6/Eldritch Knight 10/Wizard 2/Ranger 1 would be pretty darn solid (gets 9th level spells and 16 BAB, the hallmarks of a Gish). Not as strong as Wizard but still more than strong enough (though straight Wizard could give such a multiclass a run for its money with spells, still). Of course, if you have 3.5 sources you could do much better.

You could also switch to Cleric or Druid; they can use all the stats extremely efficiently.

[Andion Isurand]

Have you also considered trying to slip in the Arctic template from Dragon Magazine 306 for +2 Con and -2 Cha for +0 LA?
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Also, if you're thinking of going elf (Fire or Sun Elf)...

Select a Hummingbird Familiar (Dragon Magazine 323 page 98) for +4 initiative... along with the 3rd Elven Wizard substitution level (RotW 157) for the Natural Link ability to double that bonus in exchange for a few of the familiar's abilities (delivering touch spells and speaking to others of its kind).

As far as hummingbirds and other birds go, I'd also check out this old thread of mine: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159125
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Plus, if you go with the previous post and dip ranger, there is a nice elven ranger substitution level you can take to boost your 1st level skills... and you can still combine it with the Arcane Hunter ACF

[docnessuno]

I'd also suggest you to switch cleric (even better, the battle cleric PF variant, full BaB crazyness) for a melee-casting allaround build

You could also consider mystic theurge.

[satorian]

If you want to play a gish, play a gish. That would mean a) taking the advice people gave here and using enlightened fist to make the most of both classes, or b) play a magus and call yourself a spellcasting monk.

If you don't want to play a gish, play a monk or wizard now and play the other one later. The two don't mesh all that well without enlightened fist/carmendine monk stuff. Many of the monk's abilities might end up feeling like wasted levels as you get to a higher level. You will be a wizard who can sorta punch stuff, but not well enough to survive a bar brawl in Sigil.

[Hazard_Pay]

@ Eldariel we have access to most 3.5 material. DM is fairly laid back. Pretty much if it's in a published source it's likely fair game.

@Docnessuno I thought about that as well... It just feels like a waste to use these stats on a pure wizard. (Which says something about a Wizard's Power level...give em a single great stat and they can pretty much make up for the rest with spells.... Bump the wiz up to Teir Zero? :P)

@ Satorian I agree with your thoughts, dabbling easily becomes regret later. I just wanted to hear the community's ideas about what to do with an overly powerful (in my opinion, anyway) set of stats. The Carmendine Monk idea is up there on my list of possibilities. I normally play melee classes, so it's habit that I default to them... one I need to break if I intend to learn how to use a caster properly.