time stands still

[limejuicepowder]

Why is this considered the creme de la creme among 9th level maneuvers? Yes, I get it, two rounds worth of attacks.....but just normal attacks. I find it hard to believe it would do more damage (if any at all) then Strike of Perfect Clarity, or Feral Death Blow

What can actually be used in conjuction with Time Stands Still to make it so good?

[Hirax]

If you're power attacking for 15-20, which is very feasible by the time you get Time Stands Still, it can be quite nice. Also, if you have some sort of attack that requires a save with each hit, that's more chances for the target to roll a 1. I agree that it's not as great as people make it out out be, but it's definitely not a bad choice for the right character.

[Runestar]

Personally, I am not that big a fan of time stands still.

If the enemy has a fairly high AC, then your damage output from TST will dip dramatically as your iterative attacks miss. Standard action strikes like strike of clarity let you move before or after hitting. Diamond nightmare blade is a single strike at your best bab, so you can actually afford to power attack more aggressively (because you don't have to worry about screwing your iteratives). Other maneuvers like white raven hammer have useful status effects. Plus, dr applies only once, great against foes whose dr you cannot overcome (like the tarrasque's dr/epic.

So yes, TST can situationally deal a lot of damage. However, I find that on average, it rarely does more than diamond nightmare blade. My rationale is that 4 attacks at +16/+11/+6/+1 is mathematically the same as 2 attacks at +16, or one attack at +16 at double damage. So 2 full attacks would be the equivalent of a single attack at quad damage (ie: diamond nightmare blade). :smallsmile:

So the maneuver to watch should be DNB instead. :smallwink:

[Kenneth]

I could comletely wrong here but.. time stands still gives you 1 full round attack actions, considering strike are an attack action.. could you just do some stuffs such as nightmare blade or strike of perfect clarity AS you are in time stands still mode?


again I might be interpreting the abilities wrong here but.. at least that is how I have alwasy played it.


and I think that 12 attacks ( that is what i would think a normal melee centric character should have at 17th level in 2 rounds) is a HELLUVA lot better than 2 attacks

[Geigan]

You can still stack boosts on there too since a swift action isn't part of a full round action. That means any boost which you were most likely throwing on top of a full attack to get the most out of it anyway, is now doubly effective. Anyway, full attacks are pretty much how melee does it's most potent damage. Double your money double your fun.

[Seffbasilisk]

It's like a timestop you can hurt people in.

[Curious]

It's best combined with Island in Time and White Raven Tactics; five full attacks, and all your maneuvers are recovered at the end too.

[tyckspoon]

So yes, TST can situationally deal a lot of damage. However, I find that on average, it rarely does more than diamond nightmare blade. My rationale is that 4 attacks at +16/+11/+6/+1 is mathematically the same as 2 attacks at +16, or one attack at +16 at double damage. So 2 full attacks would be the equivalent of a single attack at quad damage (ie: diamond nightmare blade). :smallsmile:

So the maneuver to watch should be DNB instead. :smallwink:

You should at least be comparing to a 0/0/-5/-10/-15 sequence, I think- two attacks at full BAB, because by the time you can select Time Stands Still you had dang well better have Haste or a Speed weapon or some other means of getting at least one more attack out of your full attacks. Your assumptions would suggest that gives Time Stands Still a damage output of 6x, yes? Plus the benefit of applying any on-hit effects you have more often (wounding, Sneak Attack, Iajutsu, the flaming blade boosts from Desert Wind) and being able to divide the damage output if desired or needed. Diamond Nightmare gives you one big hit on one target; if you overkill with that, well, you overkill. If you dice up your target with the first full attack in Time Stands Still you can insert a Swift movement in the middle to reposition to a new target and kill him too.

[Runestar]

At that juncture, enemies should have at least 200+ hp, so I am not really too worried in that aspect.

You are right about my forgetting in factor in haste and other activated on-hit abilities. Major oversight there. :smallredface:

[Cespenar]

Lose initiative.

Time Stands Still, Island of Time, Moment of Alacrity, then another Time Stands Still in courtesy of Eternal Blade's Eternal Training ability. You can combine with WRT, but I dislike using WRT on self.

Also add in Tiger Claw boosts and Stormguard Warrior for some extra fun.

Classic action movie material. They go first, but you'll block everything they throw at you with counters and stuff, and then go "My turn." and wreck things up.

[Zaq]

I could comletely wrong here but.. time stands still gives you 1 full round attack actions, considering strike are an attack action.. could you just do some stuffs such as nightmare blade or strike of perfect clarity AS you are in time stands still mode?


again I might be interpreting the abilities wrong here but.. at least that is how I have alwasy played it.


and I think that 12 attacks ( that is what i would think a normal melee centric character should have at 17th level in 2 rounds) is a HELLUVA lot better than 2 attacks

Strikes are a standard action, not an attack action. HUGE difference.

[Runestar]

Lose initiative.

Time Stands Still, Island of Time, Moment of Alacrity, then another Time Stands Still in courtesy of Eternal Blade's Eternal Training ability. You can combine with WRT, but I dislike using WRT on self.
Where are you getting all the swift actions? :smallconfused:

[kardar233]

RKV?

Though if you're going Ruby Knight Windicator already you might as well just pump your TU attempts and take twenty-odd turns in a row.

[Runestar]

RKV?

Though if you're going Ruby Knight Windicator already you might as well just pump your TU attempts and take twenty-odd turns in a row.

Crusaders don't get access to diamond mind maneuvers, nor does the RKV prc grant them either. :smalltongue:

Best is probably something like pounce+dancing mongoose--> full attack, followed by island of time then time stands still during your opponent's turn.

[Cespenar]

Where are you getting all the swift actions? :smallconfused:

1a) Time Stands Still, full round action.
1b) Then Moment of Alacrity, that round's swift action.
2) Then Island in Time as an immediate action, which eats up the swift action of your next round. Whoops, it just granted me my next round!
3) Island in Time's turn passes, here comes my own next round thanks to the earlier Moment of Alacrity. Also thanks to Eternal Training, which eats no actions and simply grants me another use of Time Stands Still, which I use now.

So simply put, it's actually three rounds in a row, but you use two Time Stands Stills in them, which equals in total to four full attacks and one normal round.

If I'm not mistaken somewhere. :smallbiggrin:

[ZiggZagg]

That is a matter of interpretation. I have always read it that a swift action and immediate action are the same type, and your round has to come back up in order for you to use it. 1/round. Therefore, in my mind, if you use Moment of Alacrity, you have used your swift action. Using an Immediate Action is not possible, as your turn has not come up again for you to have another Swift/Immediate action to use. Otherwise, what's the difference between that, and just taking two move actions before you attack. You are just using your next round's move action :smallcool:

[Cespenar]

You use the swift action for your turn, then, right after your turn ends (1 initiative point after, for example) you use the immediate action. That, as per the rules, eats up the swift action of your next turn.

Source. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#immediateActions)

[Darrin]

I could comletely wrong here but.. time stands still gives you 1 full round attack actions, considering strike are an attack action.. could you just do some stuffs such as nightmare blade or strike of perfect clarity AS you are in time stands still mode?


No. Time Stands Still is a full-round action that lets you make two full attacks. You can't fit any other stikes in there because the actions aren't compatible (you don't get any standard actions while using Time Stands Still). You still get a swift action for the round, so you can add a boost in there, such as Raging Mongoose, but that only adds 4 attacks (not 8) to your attack routine.