Where does one go after Dread Witch?

[Elric VIII]

Dread Witch is a rather easy class to get into at level 5, but I can't really find anything that further enhances its abilities, beyond simply a full casting class.

You can enter with:
Cleric 4, using Divine Magician.
Wizard 4.
Wizard 1/+2 Will save class 1, with precocious apprentice.

You can make up for lost casting in the 3rd by doing something like Human Wizard 1/Duskblade 1/Dread Witch 3/Ur-Priest...


Now, in particular I had the idea of using it in a fear/necromantic debuffer build, on a Cloistered Cleric base.


So, what class would be a good follow-up for a CCleric 4/Dread Witch 5?

Are there better options for PrCs using a Wizard entry?

[nyarlathotep]

Nightmare spinner would open up other spells to use dreadwitch abilities as long as you have the right domains.

[The_Snark]

Nightmare Spinner (Complete Mage) is a good match thematically; it's for arcane spellcasters only, though, and best for Charisma-based ones at that. It's an okay prestige class on its own, but it does lose a level of spellcasting and I'm not sure how much it'll synergize with whatever you're planning.

[Elric VIII]

Nightmare spinner would open up other spells to use dreadwitch abilities as long as you have the right domains.

Actually, Nightmare Spinner is arcane-only.


Edit:

Nightmare Spinner (Complete Mage) is a good match thematically; it's for arcane spellcasters only, though, and best for Charisma-based ones at that. It's an okay prestige class on its own, but it does lose a level of spellcasting and I'm not sure how much it'll synergize with whatever you're planning.

I don't have an actual plan, per se, I'm just brainstorming something that I might want to play sometime in the future. One option was a Wis/Cha focused Cleric that used Divine Spell Power and Intimidate.

[HunterOfJello]

You might be interested in the Fear Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0) which is based on using Fear abilities and skills to control enemies in d&d.

A Mindbender 1 dip would be very useful for a dread witch.

[Zaq]

Yeah, I don't think there's too much else out there that 1) works especially well with Dread Witch and 2) doesn't lose another caster level, which disqualifies Nightmare Spinner. (Since DW already loses a caster level, losing another is a really bitter pill that I don't recommend swallowing.) If you were arcane, I might recommend Shadowcraft Mage, since you can do some fun things with scary illusions . . . but I don't know of anything that specifically works with DW. Your best bet is probably to find another PrC with similar, overlapping, or easily met prereqs, then go from there.

[Urpriest]

Yeah, I don't think there's too much else out there that 1) works especially well with Dread Witch and 2) doesn't lose another caster level, which disqualifies Nightmare Spinner. (Since DW already loses a caster level, losing another is a really bitter pill that I don't recommend swallowing.) If you were arcane, I might recommend Shadowcraft Mage, since you can do some fun things with scary illusions . . . but I don't know of anything that specifically works with DW. Your best bet is probably to find another PrC with similar, overlapping, or easily met prereqs, then go from there.

Pretty sure Shadowcraft Mage can advance Divine, actually. AFB atm, but I've seen it used that way in an Iron Chef without judge complaints.

[Zaq]

I won't deny it. I was just brainstorming, so I didn't bother to open the book.

[Elric VIII]

Pretty sure Shadowcraft Mage can advance Divine, actually. AFB atm, but I've seen it used that way in an Iron Chef without judge complaints.

You are correct, it's just that I believe you need one of the planar domains to qualify (getting enough spells witht the shadow descriptor), so you cannot use Divine Magician to qualify for Dread Witch.

Unless there are Necormancy/Divination/Illusion spells with the shadow descriptor?

[Zaq]

I'm pretty sure that all (or at least most) spells with the [Shadow] descriptor are Illusion.

[ThiefInTheNight]

Shadow is not a descriptor; it's a subschool. That is, the full "school" of such spells is Illusion (Shadow). As a subschool, Shadow can only be a subset of one school — namely Illusion. Thus, yes, all Shadow spells are Illusion (Shadow) spells.

[Cog]

Skull of Secrets (assorted Faerun sources) or a Heightened Dark Way (Spell Compendium) with some other illusions will get a Cleric into Shadowcraft Mage.

[Venger]

Dread Witch is a rather easy class to get into at level 5, but I can't really find anything that further enhances its abilities, beyond simply a full casting class.

You can enter with:
Cleric 4, using Divine Magician.
Wizard 4.
Wizard 1/+2 Will save class 1, with precocious apprentice.

You can make up for lost casting in the 3rd by doing something like Human Wizard 1/Duskblade 1/Dread Witch 3/Ur-Priest...


Now, in particular I had the idea of using it in a fear/necromantic debuffer build, on a Cloistered Cleric base.


So, what class would be a good follow-up for a CCleric 4/Dread Witch 5?

Are there better options for PrCs using a Wizard entry?

One of the best ways to enter dread witch is with dread necromancer.

it's cha based, which all your abilities from dread witch are
it's got intimidate as a class skill
it casts off of cha, making the build pretty SAD
it fits pretty well flavourwise too with the whole fear motif.

while DN can enter DW on time at level 5, it might be considering waiting one level to enter at level 6 since at DN 5, you get your awesome fear aura. like most fear-based stuff, it's most useful at the low levels, so it makes more sense to enjoy scaring stuff at level 5 than at level 10. plus, DN's doesn't have an HD cap like dread witch's does, and if you stay in DN long enough to get the fear aura, you'll be able to stack dread witch's on top of it (assuming they have ≤6HD and fail their will save against 15+chamod) and frighten everybody as long as they're within 5 feet of you.

max ranks in intimidate and take the "never outnumbered" skilltrick (prereq 8 ranks in intimidate) at level 5 and you'll be able to scare and debuff most of the enemies before you cast a single spell.

DN5/DW5 leaves a lot of room to play around with. since DNs use the sorcerer progression, losing caster levels is generally inadvisable, especially since dread witch makes you lose one for some reason. while it's fun, I don't think that it's warranted for what it gives you.

if you were in a jaunty mood and didn't mind being nongood/nonevil/nonchaotic (so LN or TN) you could take rainbow servant to get the entire cleric list spontaneously at lvl 20 since DNs, like beguilers and warmages, have a list of spells available equal to their list of spells known. despite a misprint in the book, rainbow servant has been officially acknowledged to give full casting since the text trumps the table in situations where there is a discrepancy

how is this?

[Human Paragon 3]

Dread Pirate. You will be the most dreaded character ever!

Or Dread Commando.

Or Dread Necromancer/ultimate magus.

[Elric VIII]

One of the best ways to enter dread witch is with dread necromancer.

it's cha based, which all your abilities from dread witch are
it's got intimidate as a class skill
it casts off of cha, making the build pretty SAD
it fits pretty well flavourwise too with the whole fear motif.

while DN can enter DW on time at level 5, it might be considering waiting one level to enter at level 6 since at DN 5, you get your awesome fear aura. like most fear-based stuff, it's most useful at the low levels, so it makes more sense to enjoy scaring stuff at level 5 than at level 10. plus, DN's doesn't have an HD cap like dread witch's does, and if you stay in DN long enough to get the fear aura, you'll be able to stack dread witch's on top of it (assuming they have ≤6HD and fail their will save against 15+chamod) and frighten everybody as long as they're within 5 feet of you.

max ranks in intimidate and take the "never outnumbered" skilltrick (prereq 8 ranks in intimidate) at level 5 and you'll be able to scare and debuff most of the enemies before you cast a single spell.

DN5/DW5 leaves a lot of room to play around with. since DNs use the sorcerer progression, losing caster levels is generally inadvisable, especially since dread witch makes you lose one for some reason. while it's fun, I don't think that it's warranted for what it gives you.

if you were in a jaunty mood and didn't mind being nongood/nonevil/nonchaotic (so LN or TN) you could take rainbow servant to get the entire cleric list spontaneously at lvl 20 since DNs, like beguilers and warmages, have a list of spells available equal to their list of spells known. despite a misprint in the book, rainbow servant has been officially acknowledged to give full casting since the text trumps the table in situations where there is a discrepancy

how is this?

Well, as I said, I would prefer Cleric entry, kind of a "fear of the divine" motif. There are a few ways to gain Intimidate as a Cleric skill, including Dread Tyrrany, that also adds Scare to my spell list. Thank you, though.


Dread Pirate. You will be the most dreaded character ever!

Or Dread Commando.

Or Dread Necromancer/ultimate magus.

So, a Dread Necromancer/Dread Witch/Dread Pirate/Dread Commando?

Let's see if I can get some Drag Fang of Lolth and Dread Master into it.

Maybe some Legendary Dread-nought after level 20.:smallbiggrin:

[Zaq]

Well, as I said, I would prefer Cleric entry, kind of a "fear of the divine" motif. There are a few ways to gain Intimidate as a Cleric skill, including Dread Tyrrany, that also adds Scare to my spell list. Thank you, though.



So, a Dread Necromancer/Dread Witch/Dread Pirate/Dread Commando?

Let's see if I can get some Drag Fang of Lolth and Dread Master into it.

Maybe some Legendary Dread-nought after level 20.:smallbiggrin:

The Dread Pirate Iron Chef round did have a Dread Necro/Dread Witch/Dread Pirate.

It didn't work as well as I think everyone would have liked it to, but it was classy.