Backwards compatibility of the Summoner?

[NineThePuma]

How would you go about scaling the Summoner (PF) back to 3.5?

[tyckspoon]

I'd use it as-is to start with, honestly; it seems to be reasonably well matched to the Dread Necro and Beguiler. Although you might want to consider taking Gate/Planar Binding/Planar Ally out of its list. They're thematically and fluff-appropriate, yes, but they're also generally broken.

[Silva Stormrage]

I'd use it as-is to start with, honestly; it seems to be reasonably well matched to the Dread Necro and Beguiler. Although you might want to consider taking Gate/Planar Binding/Planar Ally out of its list. They're thematically and fluff-appropriate, yes, but they're also generally broken.

Yes but they are broken in Pathfinder too. So for backwards conversion they can stay in there.

[Curious]

Honestly, the only thing that needs changing is their spell list. The Summoner has such a huge number of majorly discounted spells that they are effectively full spellcasters with more limited spells/day. As a quick fix, I would say restrict their spell list to 6th level wizard spells, as in don't let them use any of their spells that are listed as 7th level or higher on the wizard list. Maybe allow them some access to wizard spells to make up for the loss of most of their upper level spells.

[DarthCyberWolf]

Honestly, the only thing that needs changing is their spell list. The Summoner has such a huge number of majorly discounted spells that they are effectively full spellcasters with more limited spells/day.


Yes but they are broken in Pathfinder too. So for backwards conversion they can stay in there.

These are not the words you are looking for...

[grarrrg]

Honestly, the only thing that needs changing is their spell list. The Summoner has such a huge number of majorly discounted spells that they are effectively full spellcasters with more limited spells/day...

:confused:

They do get 'discounted level spells', but their spell progression (1 spell level every _3_ levels) assures that at best they get the 'discounted' spells only 1, at MOST 2 levels before the Wizard does.

And to cut them off at Wizard-equivalent-6th means that once they hit char-level 10 they don't get ANY more spells (4th Summoner is roughly equal to Wizard 6th).


Summoners are generally placed somewhere between Tier 2 and Tier 3. If Sorcerers are allowed in a game, then Summoners should be allowed 'as-is' (give/take necessary adjustments).

Regarding those necessary adjustments, they are the standard minor-tweaks:
Drop the HD to d6, Arcane casters going to Pathfinder all got an HD boost, so we need to take it back down.
The Skill list needs to be adjusted for the skills that were replaced/merged/changed.

[Curious]

:confused:

They do get 'discounted level spells', but their spell progression (1 spell level every _3_ levels) assures that at best they get the 'discounted' spells only 1, at MOST 2 levels before the Wizard does.

And to cut them off at Wizard-equivalent-6th means that once they hit char-level 10 they don't get ANY more spells (4th Summoner is roughly equal to Wizard 6th).


Summoners are generally placed somewhere between Tier 2 and Tier 3. If Sorcerers are allowed in a game, then Summoners should be allowed 'as-is' (give/take necessary adjustments).

Regarding those necessary adjustments, they are the standard minor-tweaks:
Drop the HD to d6, Arcane casters going to Pathfinder all got an HD boost, so we need to take it back down.
The Skill list needs to be adjusted for the skills that were replaced/merged/changed.

I was assuming the OP wished to drop them to tier 3. If not, then yeah, your adjustments'll work just fine.

[grarrrg]

I was assuming the OP wished to drop them to tier 3. If not, then yeah, your adjustments'll work just fine.

Understandable.

While I approve of your general idea, I do believe that is hitting them with the nerf bat a little hard.
My quick solid Tier 3 fix is to not let them get 6th-level Summoner spells, let them top off with an extra spell slot each spell level, and possibly space out how often they get a new spell level.