Antimagic is awful.

[Amador]

So, my DM has discovered the wonders of AMF. This leaves my character, a warlock, in a bit of a pinch. Is there any way to cancel/get rid of an AMF? others than Disjunction.

[Tokuhara]

Poke the thing casting it with a sharp stick

[Yuki Akuma]

Move twenty feet away and throw stuff at the caster.

[Tokuhara]

Move twenty feet away and throw stuff at the caster.

We've both found the easy answers.

[Alleran]

Activate Iron Heart Surge (take the Martial Study feat from ToB to get it). Bonus points if you shout "CROM!" in the process.

[Jack_Simth]

Activate Iron Heart Surge (take the Martial Study feat from ToB to get it). Bonus points if you shout "CROM!" in the process.Takes two feats - Iron Heart Surge requires another Iron Heart manuever, so you'll need Martial Study twice - once for a requirement, once for IHS.

Additionally, it's difficult for the Warlock to get IHS before 12th. As a 3rd level manuever, it requires an initiator level of 5, which the Warlock doesn't have until 10th... and no more generic feats until 12th level.

[Andreaz]

Throw the fighter at it. If it can't reach you or seriously threaten you at range (which inside an AMF is a tad harder to do), you may as well just ignore the thing entirely.

[Jack_Simth]

Ah, there we go - stock up on black onyx and make use of The Dead Walk invocation. Corporeal undead are unaffected by AMF's (although any Su or Sp abilities they might have are suppressed) so if they cast an AMF, you have your zombie minion walk in and start pounding on them.

[llamamushroom]

Ah, there we go - stock up on black onyx and make use of The Dead Walk invocation. Corporeal undead are unaffected by AMF's (although any Su or Sp abilities they might have are suppressed) so if they cast an AMF, you have your zombie minion walk in and start pounding on them.

Or, if you've killed any of their friends, do away with the onyx and allow your zombie minion to crumble away after a few minutes. After all, it shouldn't take that long to wail away at an anti-caster with rotting flesh-clubs.

[faceroll]

Or, if you've killed any of their friends, do away with the onyx and allow your zombie minion to crumble away after a few minutes. After all, it shouldn't take that long to wail away at an anti-caster with rotting flesh-clubs.

I see a flaw in your plan.

[shadow_archmagi]

I see a flaw in your plan.

I can see two major flaws in an otherwise brilliant plan.

One, it's impossible to summon the undead in an antimagic field, and two, the undead cannot be summoned in an antimagic field.

[Keneth]

Move out of the AMF, cast vitriolic blast, melt the thing into gooey delight, problem solved.

[faceroll]

Move out of the AMF, cast vitriolic blast, melt the thing into gooey delight, problem solved.

/thread

(instantaneous conjurations persist in AMFs)

[Metahuman1]

Take leadership and make a Warblade that doesn't use Su or Spell like ability's on his maneuvers, equip with Masterwork Adimatine weapon, and have him kill the **** out of what ever is in the antimagic field.

[Zaq]

/thread

(instantaneous conjurations persist in AMFs)

I'm pretty sure that Vitriolic Blast ignores SR but doesn't have the [Conjuration] keyword. It's an awful lot like, say, Orb of Acid, but it's not actually Orb of Acid.

Now, admittedly, it does say "conjured acid" in the description, but since it does ongoing damage, it's not really "instantaneous."

[Hiro Protagonest]

Take leadership and make a Warblade that doesn't use Su or Spell like ability's on his maneuvers, equip with Masterwork Adimatine weapon, and have him kill the **** out of what ever is in the antimagic field.

How are you going to get Su abilities? Martial Study for Shadow Hand?

[Gavinfoxx]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10104.0

[Anderlith]

Bag of Holding, Undead Owlbears (Or anything else that's undead & angry), toss.

[Curious]

Takes two feats - Iron Heart Surge requires another Iron Heart manuever, so you'll need Martial Study twice - once for a requirement, once for IHS.

Additionally, it's difficult for the Warlock to get IHS before 12th. As a 3rd level manuever, it requires an initiator level of 5, which the Warlock doesn't have until 10th... and no more generic feats until 12th level.

Actually, you don't need to meet the IL requirements to take a maneuver using Martial Study.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Bag of Holding, Undead Owlbears (Or anything else that's undead & angry), toss.

Bag of Holding in an AMF just becomes a regular bag. The extra-dimensional space is unreachable till it leaves the field.

[Jolly]

Bag of Holding in an AMF just becomes a regular bag. The extra-dimensional space is unreachable till it leaves the field.

Really? Did not know that, and not sure I'd agree if I was the one DM'ing. Would the same apply by RAW to Portable Holes?

[MesiDoomstalker]

Really? Did not know that, and not sure I'd agree if I was the one DM'ing. Would the same apply by RAW to Portable Holes?

Yes. All extra/non-dimensional spaces have their entrances closed when inside an AMF.

[Worira]

I'm pretty sure that Vitriolic Blast ignores SR but doesn't have the [Conjuration] keyword. It's an awful lot like, say, Orb of Acid, but it's not actually Orb of Acid.

Now, admittedly, it does say "conjured acid" in the description, but since it does ongoing damage, it's not really "instantaneous."

Doing ongoing damage doesn't mean it's not instantaneous. They're taking ongoing damage because they've got a face full of acid, but the acid itself isn't magical.

EDIT:


I can see two major flaws in an otherwise brilliant plan.

One, it's impossible to summon the undead in an antimagic field, and two, the undead cannot be summoned in an antimagic field.

Fortunately, they can be created 15 feet away from an antimagic field and then walk in and pummel the caster to death. They could also be summoned outside the field and then shoot arrows in, although the AMF caster could then walk next to them to poof them away. But that's a mute point anyway since warlocks can't summon undead, only create them.

[Zombimode]

Actually, you don't need to meet the IL requirements to take a maneuver using Martial Study.

You have to "meet the prerequisites." IL is a prerequisite.
Therefore you have to have a sufficient IL for any Maneuver you want to take with Martial Study.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

The argument is that IL isn't in the line listed as "prerequisites," but good luck getting that past a DM.

[Anderlith]

Bag of Holding in an AMF just becomes a regular bag. The extra-dimensional space is unreachable till it leaves the field.

No, no, no, I meant for him to carry the undead in the bag, until he reached the field & then to grab them & toss them out of the bag. The bag never leaves his possession. Sorry for not being clear

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Get Shrink Item (+Permanency) cast a boulder, and toss it up high so that it lands into the AMF caster's square. It will return to a gigantic boulder upon entering the AMF and squish him flat. As an added benefit, once the AMF ends the boulder will shrink back down again so long as there's some duration remaining on the spell.



You have to "meet the prerequisites." IL is a prerequisite.
Therefore you have to have a sufficient IL for any Maneuver you want to take with Martial Study.

A maneuver's level and the minimum IL to learn it is a class-specific requirement for martial adepts, it only applies to members of the listed classes. Look at a given maneuver, it has a 'Level' line with a class-specific entry, and then a completely separate 'Prerequisite' line. Martial Study says, "Select any maneuver from the chosen discipline for which you meet the prerequisite." That is a singular prerequisite, not plural. Therefore, the singe 'Prerequisite' line is all that needs to be met if you are not a member of a class that must abide by the 'Level' line. A 1st level character can get Iron Heart Surge if he takes Martial Study twice, as long as he's not a Warblade.

[Slipperychicken]

Shrink Item a lot of bad stuff beforehand, keep it in your bag of holding, walk out, throw/drop it into the AMF. Smear Aboleth Mucus on it. Do what that illiterate dunce with the Greatsword has been doing all his life. Caster goes bye-bye. Problem solved.


EDIT: Alternatively, get some of the Swordsages here to use IHS on it.

[Terazul]

Look at a given maneuver, it has a 'Level' line with a class-specific entry, and then a completely separate 'Prerequisite' line.


No no no no.



Prerequisite
In addition to meeting the class and level requirements before you learn a maneuver, you must meet a certain set of requirements to be able to choose that maneuver as one you know.

The prerequisites line explicitly refers to maneuvers known, not to the level requirements which you still must meet. Highest level of maneuvers you can know is still governed by your Martial Adept level, which for a non-adept is 1/2 their class levels in a non-adept class. The level line only describes what level Maneuver it is (which in turn governs how high your Initiator Level must be to learn it), and what class normally has access to it outside of Martial Study.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Look right above what you quoted on page 44, under the 'Level' heading:

This entry gives the martial adept class or classes that have access to this maneuver: crusader, swordsage, or warblade. The line also gives the maneuver's level within that class.
You can learn any maneuver you like by choosing the Martial Study feat, regardless of class. However you must still meet the prerequisite for that maneuver.
Immediately following that is the 'Prerequisite' heading, which outlines the prerequisite(s) that need to be met. Note that the above quote states 'the prerequisite' in a singular denotation, just like it appears in Martial Study, which means there is only one prerequisite that needs to be met in order to select a given maneuver via that feat.

"In addition to meeting the class and level requirements before you can learn a maneuver..." If you are a member of that class then there is a level prerequisite, but Martial Study supersedes this in its entirety. It clearly states that you can pick any maneuver you like, regardless of class, so long as the specific maneuvers known prerequisite for that maneuver is met.

[Terazul]

It clearly states that you can pick any maneuver you like, regardless of class

But not regardless of initiator level. The Prerequisites section acknowledges that there are multiple prerequisites for any given maneuver: Class, Initiator Level, and Maneuvers Known. As it says just before that, Martial Study lets you ignore the Class requirement, it says nothing of the other two. Again, the Level section of a maneuver description does not actually say what class level the maneuver is available; It is the Level of the Maneuver, which maintains an Initiator Level requirement. :smallannoyed:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

But not regardless of initiator level. The Prerequisites section acknowledges that there are multiple prerequisites for any given maneuver: Class, Initiator Level, and Maneuvers Known. As it says just before that, Martial Study lets you ignore the Class requirement, it says nothing of the other two. Again, the Level section of a maneuver description does not actually say what class level the maneuver is available; It is the Level of the Maneuver, which maintains an Initiator Level requirement. :smallannoyed:

The singular 'prerequisite' implies that only one needs to be met when gaining a maneuver via Martial Study, though. In both the feat's description, and the section I quoted, it states that you must meet 'the prerequisite' as in one single prerequisite, not multiple prerequisites.

[Terazul]

...Except that the Prerequisite section clearly defines that the Prerequisite section of a Maneuver entry is the maneuvers known in addition to the level requirement. The label of the section is singular, but what it applies to is plural.

[Kyuu Himura]

Biffoniacus, seriously, do you expect any sane DM to let anyone do that??

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

But that level requirement is specific to a given class, and Martial Study allows you to pick a maneuver regardless of class.

There's room for interpretation. I'll maintain that this is the case until there's an official clarification or errata (lol) to clear it up. It should ultimately be up to a given DM whether a character using Martial Study to learn a maneuver must be of a particular level.

[Terazul]

But that level requirement is specific to a given class, and Martial Study allows you to pick a maneuver regardless of class.

There's room for interpretation. I'll maintain that this is the case until there's an official clarification or errata (lol) to clear it up. It should ultimately be up to a given DM whether a character using Martial Study to learn a maneuver must be of a particular level.

Except that it's not. :smallsigh: The Class only says what classes normally have access to a given discipline, the Level requirement is independent. But yes, it is goofily worded. By your reasoning nobody should pass up Martial Study at level 1 for Mountain Tombstone Strike. :smalltongue:

[hiryuu]

But that level requirement is specific to a given class, and Martial Study allows you to pick a maneuver regardless of class.

There's room for interpretation. I'll maintain that this is the case until there's an official clarification or errata (lol) to clear it up. It should ultimately be up to a given DM whether a character using Martial Study to learn a maneuver must be of a particular level.

So I can get +2d6 sneak attack at level 1 on a wizard? Freakin' awesome. Ooh, hello, Mountain Tombstone Strike, you're a level 9 maneuver with no prerequisites!

...uh, no. It pretty clearly states you need the correct initiator level to pick a maneuver. If you're not an initiator, your level is 1/2 that.

[Incanur]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10104.0

That tinfoil hat trick is absolutely brilliant. :smallcool: Shrink item is such a ridiculous spell.

[Amador]

Well, I think that the most viable option is avoiding AMF. Are there any mundane methods for cutting line of effect to avoid the AMF?

EDIT: Better question: How solid does something have to be to block line of effect?

[NNescio]

Well, I think that the most viable option is avoiding AMF. Are there any mundane methods for cutting line of effect to avoid the AMF?

Well, the infamous Shrink-Item'ed adamantine cone hat, for one...

Alternatively, a tower shield, or an (underwater) basket.


EDIT: Better question: How solid does something have to be to block line of effect?


Line of Effect

A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It’s like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it’s not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.

You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast.

A burst, cone, cylinder, or emanation spell affects only an area, creatures, or objects to which it has line of effect from its origin (a spherical burst’s center point, a cone-shaped burst’s starting point, a cylinder’s circle, or an emanation’s point of origin).

An otherwise solid barrier with a hole of at least 1 square foot through it does not block a spell’s line of effect. Such an opening means that the 5-foot length of wall containing the hole is no longer considered a barrier for purposes of a spell’s line of effect.

I would rule that the "solid" requirement would prohibit using a thin sheet of cloth from blocking LoE. And no, I don't think it refers to a phase state here either.

[Amador]

The tinfoil hat works great, but is expensive for something that won't be terribly useful outside the AMF.

[NNescio]

The tinfoil hat works great, but is expensive for something that won't be terribly useful outside the AMF.

Well, you don't necessarily have to make it out of adamantine -- it's just more durable.

[Gavinfoxx]

Uh, being behind a wall? Having a building between you and them? Being in one of those big leather siege bell / diving bell things?

It's just an emanation field which suppresses some magical effects -- that's all you should treat it as.

The tinfoil hat doesn't need to be tin or metal or anything -- hardened leather would be fine.

[Amador]

At more than 8,000 gp the magic is a little expensive. Would a thick cloth be solid enough to block line of effect?

[Gavinfoxx]

Just make it out of leather... google 'national geographic medieval fight book' and watch the episode where they make that hardened leather bell...

[Draz74]

By your reasoning nobody should pass up Martial Study at level 1 for Mountain Tombstone Strike. :smalltongue:

I dunno, I think I'd rather have Martial Study (Shadow Blink). Although humans can just get both!

[BillyBobJoe]

Alternatively, get some of the Swordsages here to use IHS on it.

Wait, when did swordsages get IHS. CO, have you been holding out on us? :smalltongue:

[Tonal Architect]

Tin-foil hat trick gave me an idea.

Assume you could get yourself a ballista of sorts, and get a hold of a projectile made of lead (11340 kilograms per cubic meter) which would measure 4 cubic meters, weighing a grand total of 45360 kilograms, something like 50 tons.

Once shrunk, our projectile would now size and weigh 25 centimeters and 11,25 kilograms, which in turns makes the object well within reasonable boundaries for either a ballista projectile or something thrown, but let's stick with the ballista for added speed.

45360 equals 97797,059 lbs. Using the rules for improvised weapons present in the Complete Warrior, for every 200 pounds of weight in excess of 400 pounds (which already deal 5d6), you get an extra d6 of damage, so, our projectile will cause 493d6 of damage, which double in case the object is sharp, so let's assume we it is, for a whopping 987d6 of damage.

So, incite the mage to generate his AMF, say, with some other party member approaching. Aim ballista... Fire. Projectile enters AMF, expands to ungodly weight, makes every Hulking Hurler in the plane instantaneously green with envy, and reduces the caster to a bloody pulp.

Retrieve the object, which will be back to it's 25 cubic centimeters size, once the caster takes his AMF with him to the afterlife. Repeat as needed, or otherwise, get rid of the object before your DM finds some ingenious way to crush you with it.

[Jolly]

If your DM let's you get away with a ballista launched sharpened lead projectile he deserves to get his BBEG squished.

[ThiefInTheNight]

If your DM thinks its appropriate to respond to a Warlock with common and frequent uses of Antimagic Field, he deserves everything he gets.

[Gavinfoxx]

If your DM thinks its appropriate to respond to a Warlock with common and frequent uses of Antimagic Field, he deserves everything he gets.

Amen to that!

Ah, here we go! There is a man under that... and that is a rock falling on it!

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/250/out2rc.png
http://go.sky.com/SVOD/SKYDOCUMENTARIES/IMAGES/National%20Geographic%20Channel/M/Medieval%20Fightbook/S_MedievalFightBook.JPG

Just make it a bit wider to look more like a leather skullcap, and you are good!

[Seffbasilisk]

Alternately to the Vitrolic Blast...

Just take Assume Supernatural Ability, turn your blast into an Su ability, step out of the AoE of the AMF, and zap the generator.

[Yuki Akuma]

Supernatural abilities don't work in antimagic fields.

Because they're magic.

[Seffbasilisk]

Supernatural effects do not allow SR.

They are not GENERATED in an AMF, but can be fired INTO one.

[Gavinfoxx]

Unless they happen to be instantaneous conjurations!

[Yuki Akuma]

...

Read the text of Antimagic Field again.

In fact, here, I'll quote it:


Antimagic Field
Abjuration
Level: Clr 8, Magic 6, Protection 6, Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 10 ft.
Area: 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: See text

An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines.

An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell’s duration.

Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature’s spell resistance to make it wink out. (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)

A normal creature can enter the area, as can normal missiles. Furthermore, while a magic sword does not function magically within the area, it is still a sword (and a masterwork sword at that). The spell has no effect on golems and other constructs that are imbued with magic during their creation process and are thereafter self-supporting (unless they have been summoned, in which case they are treated like any other summoned creatures). Elementals, corporeal undead, and outsiders are likewise unaffected unless summoned. These creatures’ spell-like or supernatural abilities, however, may be temporarily nullified by the field. Dispel magic does not remove the field, though Mage's Disjunction might.

Two or more antimagic fields sharing any of the same space have no effect on each other. Certain spells, such as wall of force, prismatic sphere, and prismatic wall, remain unaffected by antimagic field (see the individual spell descriptions). Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this.

Should a creature be larger than the area enclosed by the barrier, any part of it that lies outside the barrier is unaffected by the field.

Arcane Material Component
A pinch of powdered iron or iron filings.

Do you see any mention of only SR: Yes effects being supressed? No? Didn't think so!

[NNescio]

Supernatural effects do not allow SR.

They are not GENERATED in an AMF, but can be fired INTO one.

Irrelevant; AMF does not care whether a given ability is subject to SR or not. Otherwise, the following line would be quite redundant:


[...]An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines. [...]

Instantaneous conjurations do pierce AMFs, and they often do not allow SR, but they are not the same thing.