Requesting Wondrous Items help.

[missmvicious]

Ok... some of you know that I tweaked the house rules on Wondrous Items crafting so that you could gamble (extremely summarized because my house rules aren't a key element of this question) your XP, rather than just definitely losing XP. Well, it's inspired my spell-casters to take a serious whack at crafting Wondrous Items now that they've hit Level 3.

One of them is taking it a bit farther than I intended, but I try to have an "anything goes as long as it makes sense" approach to DM'ing.

Character Dossier:
She wants to make Wondrous Items that don't appear on the list because the number of CL3's and below is pretty limited. Her character is kind of prissy: spoiled child prodigy daughter of aristocrats who is venturing off into the world to prove herself to her parents who believe that daughters should just grow up to marry a nice wealthy man. She's got skills (her "dump" stat was 15 when she rolled her up at level 1) but her viewpoints on combat strategy are somewhat askew because of the sheltered life she lives. Therefor, the items that she wants to craft are generally girlish in nature...

Magic Items:

Ventriloquist's Lipstick: +4 to Disguise against reading lips (good when casting spells with verbal components).

Stiltettos: Essentially, these are Boots of Levitation, but not as good. They are stiletto boots which, with a vocal command grow vertically upward 10' feet to work as stilts.

Alchemical Romance: (Yes, that's and MCR reference) Which is really more of an Alchemical Item than a Wondrous Item, but it essentially would work like a Beguile spell that you wear (and are inherently immune to) like a love satchel.

My question is, how do I determine the Caster Level for these things? And how do I read the cheat sheets on the DMG pages 284 - 285?

I figure the Ventriloquist's Lipstick is a Skill Bonus (competence) 4, with 50 charges. But would that be "50 Charges (spell trigger) or just Charged (50 Charges) or what? And how do I decide Components? And how does any of that relate to table 7-32?

Before this campaign, not a lot of people ever messed with Magic Items, and those that did usually just bought them in town, or (on the rare moments they made their own) just made one from the list. I'm a little out of my league here but the players shouldn't have to suffer for that.

Help?

[Than]

The caster level of the item is the caster level of the creator at the time of creation. So I take it that's CL3 right now? She's just need the Craft Wondrous Item feat, the Ventriloquism spell, and some money.

DMG 282 states a creator can create an item with a caster level lower than their own but not lower than the minimum needed to cast the spells to make it magic. Ventriloquism is a first level arcane spell so that isn't an issue. Using a CL above 1 just determines the Dispel check needed to suppress the effect. The only hard issue will be determining the cost to create such an item as you said but the DMG has you covered on that as well. Page 285 (Table 7-33) has the relevant table. Materials would be mundane stuff. The shoes from leather, the lipstick from fatty substances like lard or lanolin.

Skill bonus: Base price = bonus squared x 100 gp
Charged (50 charges): Base price = 1/2 unlimited use base price
No Space Limitation (does not use a body slot): Base Price = Multiple entire cost by 2.

The lipstick won't be spell trigger so the charges cost table entry under "Spell Effect" doesn't apply.

[missmvicious]

Ok... that's kind of what I thought, but I just wanted to make sure I was right. She wants to make things that aren't as good as their comparative equivalent because she's hoping to make the CL and GP cost lighter.

Here's what I'm going with, then:
Ventriloquists Lipstick:
"This bright red lipstick, which can be stored in any Disguise Kit or kept in a pocket, gives it's wearer the appearance that their lips are not moving when a spell is being cast and therefore gives them a Competence bonus to Disguise vs. a defender's Spot (should I do this vs. Spellcraft?) check when casting spells with vocal components, to prevent a defender from recognizing the spell by reading lips. A defender still has the opportunity to hear the words of the spell, if the spell is being cast within vocal range, and it provides no bonuses for disguising any other components of a spell."

Spell Requirement: CL1 - Ventriloquism
Effect: Skill Bonus (Competence)
Spell Effect: NA
Special: Charged (50 Charges), No Space Limitation (x2 Cost)
Component: Vial of Ink (pigment), Flask of Oil (oils) and Soap (wax and emollient) = 1.6 (Pg. 128 PH); x50 (per table 7-32, DMG) = 80 GP

She is willing to pay for up to +4 competence so that would be:

(((4x4)x100/2)+80)x2 = 1,760 GP

*Slack jawed...* That's a lot of money for lipstick. Did I build that right? I guess since it's technically a Wondrous Item, it would be a lot more expensive, but wow. That better be some great lipstick.

Hm, if I got it right, then next post: Stiltettos...

[missmvicious]

Ok. Let's see if I did this right.

*glances up from notes*

BTW, I'm not showing off my homebrews, here. I'm actually checking to see if I'm doing this right. But if this belongs in the Homebrew forum, please let me know if I should move this thread to it or another forum.

Stiltettos:
"These stylish, knee-high boots have a 10' heel which tapers to a narrow point at the end and are made from a high quality leather and adorned with fashionable detailing, in the style of clothing from a Courtier's Outfit. When a command word is spoken, the heel and platform of the sole grow 10' vertically as a full round action. With Balance checks, it's wearer can walk with a 60' base land speed, but may not hustle or run, and cannot use her DEX modifier for AC. The wearer may also get a circumstance bonus for Spot checks due to her high vantage point. When the effect wears off, the heel and sole gradually shrink back to it's normal size in 1 round."

CL9 Spell Requirement: Major Creation: min 7 cu. ft
Effect:NA
Spell Effect: Command Word (5x9x1800 GP)
Special: Charges per day Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)
Raw Materials: 1/3 Courtier's Outfit = 10GP x50 = 500 GP

** I don't get the Charges per day rule, here. By that math, this spell with 1 charge per day would be at +5 to the Base Price, but 5 charges per day would only at +1 to the Base Price. Am I reading this wrong? Why would making something more useful make it less expensive?

And what is the reason for multiplying the components x50? You don't need 50 pairs of boots to make one set of boots. Or is it assuming that you have to buy an extremely awesome set of boots that's worth a small fortune in order for it to be worthy of enchanting?

[suhkkaet]

** I don't get the Charges per day rule, here. By that math, this spell with 1 charge per day would be at +5 to the Base Price, but 5 charges per day would only at +1 to the Base Price. Am I reading this wrong? Why would making something more useful make it less expensive?

And what is the reason for multiplying the components x50? You don't need 50 pairs of boots to make one set of boots. Or is it assuming that you have to buy an extremely awesome set of boots that's worth a small fortune in order for it to be worthy of enchanting?

The last part is because wands/etc that cast spells with components and have 50 charges needs 50x the component.

Charges per day: Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)
If the price is 10, and it has 5 charges per day, then you divide by 1 (aka 10). If it has 1 charge per day, you divide by (5/1 =) 5, that is, the price becomes 2.

[Yucca]

** I don't get the Charges per day rule, here. By that math, this spell with 1 charge per day would be at +5 to the Base Price, but 5 charges per day would only at +1 to the Base Price. Am I reading this wrong? Why would making something more useful make it less expensive?

You divide by "five divided by the number of charges". The book assumes that 5 charges per day is the normal.

So if you have 5 charges you divide the price by "5/5" which is 1, so the price doesn't change. Something that cost 5000gp would now cost 5000gp (5000/1=5000).

If you have 1 charge, you are dividing by "5/1" which is five. Something that cost 5000gp now costs 1000gp (5000/5=1000).

If you have 10 charges you are dividing by "5/10" which is one half. Something that cost 5000gp now costs 10000gp (5000/.5=10000)

More charges means a more expensive item. A number of people consider making custom items with only one or two charges to be slightly cheesy.



And what is the reason for multiplying the components x50? You don't need 50 pairs of boots to make one set of boots. Or is it assuming that you have to buy an extremely awesome set of boots that's worth a small fortune in order for it to be worthy of enchanting?

As mentioned, that x50 is mainly applied for wands or staves which duplicate spells that have costly material components. For what you described, I'd say it's good enough to say this:

For the lipstick, say that the base item is 10gp (the BOEF (yes, that book) lists a makeup kit at that price). Ventriloquism doesn't have a costly material component, so there's nothing more to add here.

For the boots, say 50gp should buy you an really nice set of mundane leather boots. Major creation doesn't have a costly material component, so nothing to add there.

[missmvicious]

Ohhhhhhhh!

Ok. So, like this:


Ventriloquists Lipstick:
"This bright red lipstick, which can be stored in any Disguise Kit or kept in a pocket, gives it's wearer the appearance that their lips are not moving when a spell is being cast and therefore gives them a Competence bonus to Disguise vs. a defender's Spot (should I do this vs. Spellcraft?) check when casting spells with vocal components, to prevent a defender from recognizing the spell by reading lips. A defender still has the opportunity to hear the words of the spell, if the spell is being cast within vocal range, and it provides no bonuses for disguising any other components of a spell."

Spell Requirement: CL1 - Ventriloquism
Effect: Skill Bonus (Competence)
Spell Effect: NA
Special: Charged (50 Charges), No Space Limitation (x2 Cost)
Materials: Lipstick 10 GP

She is willing to pay for up to +4 competence so that would be:

(((4x4)x100/2)+10)x2 = 1,620 GP

and

Stiltettos:
"These stylish, knee-high boots have a 10' heel which tapers to a narrow point at the end and are made from a high quality leather and adorned with fashionable detailing, in the style of clothing from a Courtier's Outfit. When a command word is spoken, the heel and platform of the sole grow 10' vertically as a full round action. With Balance checks, it's wearer can walk with a 60' base land speed, but may not hustle or run, and cannot use her DEX modifier for AC. The wearer may also get a circumstance bonus for Spot checks due to her high vantage point. When the effect wears off, the heel and sole gradually shrink back to it's normal size in 1 round."

CL9 Spell Requirement: Major Creation: min 7 cu. ft
Effect:NA
Spell Effect: Command Word (5x9x1800 GP)
Special: Charges per day Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)
Raw Materials: Fine Quality Leather Boots: 50 GP

((5x9x1800)x(1/(5/1))+50 = 16,250 GP...

Yeesh. I figured since the spell lasts for 2 hrs per caster level, and it takes a minimum CL 9 to create 7 cubic feet of material, that gives her a minimum 18 hours to make the most of her Stiltettos, so it really doesn't need multiple charges. Still... that's a looooooottttt of money for something that is, more or less, completely useless by the time you learn Levitate, Fly, or Air Walk.

I guess I'll have to bring this up to her. She's going to need a really good reason to incorporate these items into the campaign other than just "gambling XP for stat crunching" because an intelligent wizard would not throw away money and risk valuable XP frivolously... I think. Wizards can be a bit eccentric, I suppose, but I'm pretty sure you could buy your own small town for 16,000 GP.

BTW, it's amusing that you found a purpose for the Book of Erotic Fantasy that didn't involve being the punch-line to a dirty innuendo.

Anyway, I think I've got the concept down now, so I could work out the formulas for anything else she intends to create.

Thanks everyone!

[Yucca]

One last comment to make is that you should never forget rule 0 in these situations. The table in the DMG is a set of guidelines, not something set in stone. If you feel like the boots are overpriced using the formula, come up with something that fits them better.

It sounds like your boots are a situationally useful item that are going to be included primarily for flavor reasons. Give it a price tag relative to this. 1000gp? This is hardly a campaign breaking item, and (although this is just my DM style) I always try to work with players to include personal, flavorful items.