Race Question: Deep Imaskari

[Tokuhara]

I read over the race, and found it was a decent choice for INT-based casters and can qualify to get the Outsider type.

My questions are:

Are they a decent racial choice, or are they a quirk that is worth a pass at best, and using PF and/or D&D, how good can they be?

[senrath]

Looking over just its stats, I'd go with it's probably not the best choice in 3.5, but it wouldn't be the worst either.

In PF, I'd give their stats a boost, probably.

[Tokuhara]

Looking over just its stats, I'd go with it's probably not the best choice in 3.5, but it wouldn't be the worst either.

In PF, I'd give their stats a boost, probably.

Maybe drop the dexterity hit?

[Psyren]

First off: Deep Imaskari (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003b)

Spell Clutch should scale (perhaps to let you recall a spell one or two levels below your maximum, minimum 1st.)

Porting them to PF, they should get a Wis boost as well.

[Tokuhara]

First off: Deep Imaskari (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003b)

Spell Clutch should scale (perhaps to let you recall a spell one or two levels below your maximum, minimum 1st.)

Porting them to PF, they should get a Wis boost as well.

I am tempted to agree. Imaskari are underrated, and with this PF Port/Errata, they may finally enter the world of "playable"

[senrath]

Yeah, for PF I'd change their stats to +2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Dex, and make their spell thing scale to (Highest Level Spell you can cast - 1) or less. So if you could cast 4ths, you could recover a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd.

[Tokuhara]

Yeah, for PF I'd change their stats to +2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Dex, and make their spell thing scale to (Highest Level Spell you can cast - 1) or less. So if you could cast 4ths, you could recover a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd.

I seriously agree

[Psyren]

Spell Clutch could be adapted to psionics too - simply let them regain PP = [base cost of highest level power they can manifest - 2].

Since they are from the Underdark, psionic ability is easily explained. (And Bruce Cordell wrote their book, after all.)

[Tokuhara]

Spell Clutch could be adapted to psionics too - simply let them regain PP = [base cost of highest level power they can manifest - 2].

Since they are from the Underdark, psionic ability is easily explained. (And Bruce Cordell wrote their book, after all.)

Interesting...

[Runestar]

Are you kidding? They are one of the very few LA+0 races which grant +2 int. A wizard doesn't really care about dex at all, and the otherworldly feat opens up some nice polymorph options, as well as granting darkvision and free martial weapon prof (if you want to enter eldritch knight or abjurant champion). What exactly makes them subpar as a wizard race again? :smallconfused:

[Tokuhara]

Are you kidding? They are one of the very few LA+0 races which grant +2 int. A wizard doesn't really care about dex at all, and the otherworldly feat opens up some nice polymorph options, as well as granting darkvision and free martial weapon prof (if you want to enter eldritch knight or abjurant champion). What exactly makes them subpar as a wizard race again? :smallconfused:

I'm saying the opposite. I say they are being overshadowed by Grey Elves, Humans, Illumians, and Gnomes, and that isn't cool. Heck, Imaskari make amazing gishes, focused on INT-based classes (maybe a Warblade 1/Swordsage 1/Wizard 4/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/Abjurant Champion 4).

Besides, their backstory is SO much cooler than Illumain's and Grey Elves, their images are cooler than Human or Gnome, so why to Wizard Players not select these guys?

[Psyren]

A wizard doesn't really care about dex at all

Initiative, RTAs/crossbow, reflex, AC at low levels. It's not vital but the penalty does hurt.


their backstory is SO much cooler than Illumain's and Grey Elves, their images are cooler than Human or Gnome, so why to Wizard Players not select these guys?

Wait, what? Illumians have awesome fluff. Better yet, they fit into any setting, whereas Imaskari are more Faerun-specific.

Anyway, my guess for the main reason they don't come up much is because they're from a relatively obscure 3.0 sourcebook, rather than any active malice against them. And many players simply don't realize they're online.

[Tokuhara]

Initiative, RTAs/crossbow, reflex, AC at low levels. It's not vital but the penalty does hurt.



Wait, what? Illumians have awesome fluff. Better yet, they fit into any setting, whereas Imaskari are more Faerun-specific.

Anyway, my guess for the main reason they don't come up much is because they're from a relatively obscure 3.0 sourcebook, rather than any active malice against them. And many players simply don't realize they're online.

Former demon-worshiping humans who were corrupted by Faustian Pacts and forced to retreat underground? I see no Faerun there.

[Psyren]

Former demon-worshiping humans who were corrupted by Faustian Pacts and forced to retreat underground? I see no Faerun there.

Not all settings have an "Underground," at least not one large enough to support an entire race.

[Tokuhara]

Not all settings have an "Underground," at least not one large enough to support an entire race.

Then shuffle it. Maybe mountain-dwellers like the Underfolk

[ThatLovin'Elan]

Not all settings have an "Underground," at least not one large enough to support an entire race.

Golarion, the Pathfinder campaign world, does (http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Darklands).

[Tokuhara]

And even then, one could simply look to the tiefling for inspiration and refluff Imaskari to match

[Psyren]

Then shuffle it. Maybe mountain-dwellers like the Underfolk

Illumians meanwhile fit into just about any setting without refluffing.

You asked for reasons why they aren't popular and I'm speculating. Anything can be refluffed obviously, that doesn't mean people want to bother. I'd personally allow them if that makes you feel better.


Golarion, the Pathfinder campaign world, does (http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Darklands).

As do Faerun and Eberron (Underdark and Khyber respectively); but my point stands, not all settings have one.

[Tokuhara]

Illumians meanwhile fit into just about any setting without refluffing.

You asked for reasons why they aren't popular and I'm speculating. Anything can be refluffed obviously, that doesn't mean people want to bother. I'd personally allow them if that makes you feel better.



As do Faerun and Eberron (Underdark and Khyber respectively); but my point stands, not all settings have one.

I just feel that a fluff reason isn't enough to discredit them as a viable race. It's like saying, "We're Playing Dark Sun, but because I don't like their fluff, fighter will be replaced by samurai." Fluff should not be the only deciding factor in favorance. I mean, look at the Drow. Yes, the Drow are sadistic creatures who hang out with spiders. However, every setting puts a wonderful spin on them, even though the predominant idea is that Drow are underdark-dwelling evil elves

[Big Fau]

Not all settings have an "Underground," at least not one large enough to support an entire race.

That's easily solved via proper role playing.

Who needs an Underground when everything has been "underground"?

[Psyren]

That's easily solved via proper role playing.

Most things are; not disputing that at all.


I just feel that a fluff reason isn't enough to discredit them as a viable race.

I don't think they're discredited, just overlooked. Neraphim are a great race too, but they rarely ever come up.

But you can't exactly blame people for skipping over a setting-specific splat from a previous edition either.

[Tokuhara]

Most things are; not disputing that at all.



I don't think they're discredited, just overlooked. Neraphim are a great race too, but they rarely ever come up.

But you can't exactly blame people for skipping over a setting-specific splat from a previous edition either.

I can't. I just adore them overall. I want to see them come into their own and kick human off their pedistal

[Psyren]

I can't. I just adore them overall. I want to see them come into their own and kick human off their pedistal

Er. Well. They've got a ways to go before an Int bonus + Dex penalty and the ability to regain a 1st-level spell dethrones humans.

I mean, they're good; just not human good.

[Runestar]

I would likely play an imaskari wizard over a human one, just saying. :smallsmile:

[Big Fau]

Most things are; not disputing that at all.

Methinks you missed a joke.

[Tokuhara]

I would likely play an imaskari wizard over a human one, just saying. :smallsmile:

I thank you so much for supporting the Imaskari Are People Too. Wait 3-5 buisiness days for your complimentary fruit basket to arrive

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Having played a Deep Imaskari wizard, the DEX penalty does hurt. It's enough to notice.

A few things with the race, technically, they are the descendents of humanity, so you could make the case that they have the [human] subtype for purposes of feats and classes, but definitely run that past your DM first.

For purposes of PF, I'd say that a CHA bonus would be more thematic, simply because their backstory deals a lot with "overthrowing the gods!" which fits more with a high CHA than a higher WIS, but that's just me. The fact that CHA also goes more into arcane casting than divine helps, too. :smallwink:

Spell-clutch working on max-level spell - 1, minimum 1st also helps.

[Tokuhara]

Having played a Deep Imaskari wizard, the DEX penalty does hurt. It's enough to notice.

A few things with the race, technically, they are the descendents of humanity, so you could make the case that they have the [human] subtype for purposes of feats and classes, but definitely run that past your DM first.

For purposes of PF, I'd say that a CHA bonus would be more thematic, simply because their backstory deals a lot with "overthrowing the gods!" which fits more with a high CHA than a higher WIS, but that's just me. The fact that CHA also goes more into arcane casting than divine helps, too. :smallwink:

Spell-clutch working on max-level spell - 1, minimum 1st also helps.

Amen TDC... Amen.

I will play a Deep Imaskari next campaign, come Hell or High Water.

Mostly, I see their Spell Clutch as the niche that makes them different from literally EVERY race

[Flickerdart]

I dunno. A race that's "deep", underground, and so obscure nobody has heard of them? That's quite a few warning lights right there. :smalltongue:

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I dunno. A race that's "deep", underground, and so obscure nobody has heard of them? That's quite a few warning lights right there. :smalltongue:

Nah, it's okay, they just have to only drink Pabst Blue Ribbon!:smallwink:

[Tokuhara]

So, in racial flavour, would an Imaskari Magus be too weird?

[Thrice Dead Cat]

So, in racial flavour, would an Imaskari Magus be too weird?

Not really. Given their FR fluff, they were proud, warrior mages. Most of the time it is magic over not-magic, but the Magus class still fits the general theme of arcane sorcerer they have going on.

[Tokuhara]

Not really. Given their FR fluff, they were proud, warrior mages. Most of the time it is magic over not-magic, but the Magus class still fits the general theme of arcane sorcerer they have going on.

Alrighty. So, if Spell Clutch Scaled, and they followed the general PF "+1 LA" theme, how well would they stack up, and what would their unique Favored Class: Magus be?

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I think the spell clutch would fit. Favored Class is either Magus or Wizard, because epic high magics.

[Tokuhara]

I think the spell clutch would fit. Favored Class is either Magus or Wizard, because epic high magics.

Right. I meant the "pick your bonus" favored class thingy

[Coidzor]

I think it always boils down to them stinky feats.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I think it always boils down to them stinky feats.

Usually, yes, but sometimes, you either get enough flaws or are using a build that doesn't demand too many feats.

[Coidzor]

Usually, yes, but sometimes, you either get enough flaws or are using a build that doesn't demand too many feats.

Enough flaws? That's kinda like enuff dakka, isn't it?

[Flickerdart]

Not really. Many of the best feats have prerequisites that can't be met at 1st level.

[Tokuhara]

So concerning Magus, what are some good PrC options? I've read the guide, but in 3.X, what works well for the "Gish in a Box"

[Thrice Dead Cat]

So concerning Magus, what are some good PrC options? I've read the guide, but in 3.X, what works well for the "Gish in a Box"

Abjurant Champion almost always works. The thing with Pathfinder, though, is that they heavily encourage single-classing due to how class features progress. Even so, Magus 5/Abjurant Champion 5 is probably still solid.

[Big Fau]

Abjurant Champion almost always works. The thing with Pathfinder, though, is that they heavily encourage single-classing due to how class features progress. Even so, Magus 5/Abjurant Champion 5 is probably still solid.

Abjurant Champion has a BAB requirement of +5. Magus has Cleric BAB.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Abjurant Champion has a BAB requirement of +5. Magus has Cleric BAB.

Derp. The this is what I get for not proof-reading my posts. That was supposed to be Magus 15/Abjurant Champion 5, for a full 20th level class listing.:smallredface:

[dextercorvia]

Just pointing out that as written, Deep Imaskari are awesome for a low level campaign -- especially one where the DM likes making wizards run out of gas. With 6* 1st level spells hp** will definitely be the limiting factor in the adventuring day.

*Assuming Focused specialist and point buy, actual results may vary.
**Hopefully someone else's.