My DM is aggravating me to no end!

[Icestorm245]

Alright, here's the deal, my DM fails to see the wisdom of anything he reads online, as he deems most stuff to be "some random loser's ****ty opinion". Scratch most stuff, it's ALL garbage to him. A while ago I learned the value of forums such as these ones, and I shared with him a few ideas I found, mentioning they came from online. He immediately hated all of them when he found out where they came from, and now, he hates any of my suggestions, thinking they too come from online. Next to him, I'm the most experienced player in the group, and I'm trying to find a way to get him to open up to my ideas again (he had no problem before hand). I can't just up and leave, cause he's not only a D&D buddy, but a really good friend I knew for a long time, and it would only cause straining in our group's relationships.

If any of you have any ideas how to solve this, or have had a similar issue in the past, please let me know... this whole thing needs to end.

[Tanuki Tales]

This really belongs more in the Roleplaying main forum, but anyways:

How does the rest of the group feel about online things? He may be the DM, but if the rest of the party is alright with using forums advice/builds/homebrew/etc. and the rest of the party voices these opinions to the DM, there will have to be compromise if he doesn't want to lose the group.

Or just try to talk him into taking a break from DMing. His opinion may be important, but he isn't the only sailor on the boat.

Edit: And honestly, if he was a real friend and a good friend, he would never shoot down anything you have to say so off the cuff.

[Curious]

Present him with a clear, reasoned argument for why you believe whatever changes or additions you wish to make are perfectly valid, regardless of their origin. Then ask him to present you in turn with a clear, reasoned argument as to why an idea loses all merit if it was taken from the internet.

[Hiro Protagonest]

...Slap him for thinking someone who signs up for something so they can talk to many experienced D&D players is a random loser?

If you don't mind waiting for results, a test that'll either send up red flags or shape him up is to show him OotS. Eventually, he'll start clicking on other links. Erfworld, gaming articles, and maybe eventually the forums (although it'll probably be for "teh LOLZ"). If he thinks Rich Burlew is a random loser on the Internet and refuses to do that, red flag. If he signs up for the forum for some reason and gets banned, red flag. If he signs up and is active and doesn't get banned, he'll shape up.

[Metahuman1]

Tell him point blank, look I respect your opinion, but this has gotten absurd.

Maybe the post is one persons opinion, but you know what, if dozens or hundreds or thousands or more people are paying attention too and agreeing with it, he MIGHT be on to something! At least enough for it to be worth the experiment.

Once it was an Opinion that being of one gender did not make you superior to members of the other gender by virtue of being the first gender, and now it's basically regarded as a straight fact because enough people where willing to give the opinion a try and found out there was something too it!

Just for sake of an example.

If that fails, somewhere floating around the net was an official item Wizards of the Coast had going for virtually every 3.5 Q/A about the rules as written. Find and show him that and that it is in fact licensed and official just like his core rules. From there, show him a build you like and have all the relevant rules as written answers form the official source already lined up so that you can point to how every single individual part of the build works exactly as the poster describes and tell him "It's great that you don't auto trust every single thing in cyberspace, but the fact is this works per the rules. So unless your gonna take this so far as to go out of your way to Nerf me for no reason other then to do it, this needs to stop. "






Edit: If you do as the post above this suggests, and he opts that Rich is a loser, get a copy of Eberron Campaign setting and highlight Riches name, show it to him and say "Your dead certain of that? And your still sticking to your guns that all online material is automatically crap form a random bum? Think about it before you answer."

do this in front of the whole group. show the whole group OOTS ahead of time so they will follow what just happened in order to make sure he get's the point that he has to knock it off.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

What do the other players think? What internet ideas are you trying to bring to the table?

If your friend is being dismissive of your ideas just because you read them on the internet then he's not acting like a friend (*the more you know*). I'd have a heart to heart about whether or not he respects you and what you think about the game. If it turns out he doesn't, I know you don't want to do it, but I'd just leave.

[Icestorm245]

I did show him OotS, actually, and he loves it. But as for him coming to click on the forum page, not likely. I think I may have to talk to him face to face, the only problem is he's extremely bullheaded... I think the only thing I can really do to settle this is to break one of his games as a player. Because he's so ignorant to a good source of information like the internet, he is remarkably unaware of the balance issues in 3.0 and 3.5.

As for everyone else, they don't care enough to get involved either way. They side more with him though; I think I'm the only one in the group that sees the internet as something more than a useless information dump. Seriously, though, thanks for the input.

[Waker]

I know you said that he's dismissive of stuff from the internet, but how does this pertain to the game he's running? If you mentioned that you got a character idea from a forum would he make you roll a new character up or did something else happen? I'm not seeing what the exact problem here.

[OmniArcanus]

Well, the DM's word is law, so even if he isn't being honest about not liking these ideas, he still makes up the rules. You could always start your own campaign with variant rules and not have him in it.

[Eisirt]

This is not an ingame issue, resolve it outside of the game.

Heart to heart is the best idea I have seen so far, especially if you want to keep him as a friend.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Ditto what everyone's saying about an out-of-game talk. Screwing up his game will only escalate the problem.

[Abies]

Without examples, it is impossible to present a cogent response to your problem. Specify what it is your DM is opposed to. "everything" is simply not descriptive enough. If your DM is opposed to Ijatsu Focus or Diplomacy abuse (yes the overpoweredness of both skills is due to misinterpretation of rules) then no harm no foul. If he does not like random homebrew stuff, no problem, it's his campaign.
Keep in mind just because someone posts something online and a bunch of other folks agree does not mean it's a good idea. Indeed, in many cases the contrary opinion will be shouted down regardless of the merits of the contrary opinion (as I am certain my previous position on Ijatsu and Diplomacy will be).

So, in closing; please provide examples of what the DM opposes, otherwise any advice given is entirely meaningless.

[Gotterdammerung]

If any of you have any ideas how to solve this, or have had a similar issue in the past, please let me know... this whole thing needs to end.

There are multiple problems presented. Only some of them have solutions.

#1 problem: Sources you really want to use are being denied.

#1 answer: Not much for it. If he is the GM it is his game. It is up to him what he lets in.


#2 problem: His value for your input has been tainted by his prejudice for online source material.

#2 answer: This one is easy to fix. You just need to think like Dr. Gregory House. Simply let him think that you have had an epiphany and now share his opinion. Go on a rant about how you realize how unbalanced online source material is. And about how you can't believe you were ever enamored with it. If you can convince him that you share his disdain for online source material, then he will value your opinion again.

Then the next time you want to use something from an online source, just write it out on a piece of paper and call it "some ideas i have been working on completely on my own."

[Icestorm245]

Well the current game he's running, I'm playing fighter/rogue musketeer type character, so no chance of breaking his game with that. One of the biggest examples I can think of is:

Me: Hey man, guess what? I found something online about making a shield fighter type character, like you mentioned to me a while ago.

DM: It's from online? Ignore it, it's probably some bull**** someone made up.

Me: Actually it follows all the rules and stuff, and it's basically just helping you by suggesting feats or classes and useful magic items.

DM: Nah, still can't be bothered by it. People online are losers with ****ty opinions about everything.

Me: Well, I don't think everyone is like that online...

And that's the beginning of it. I argued that online knowledge could be very useful, and he said that the sourcebooks are there for a reason, and to read them. But it sparked something far far greater. Since then, I suggested classes/feats combinations and he continued to say "I won't allow it in my game." He never openly accused something of being online material, but in my mind I know that's what he's thinking cause he was never, ever this intolerant to my ideas before. He embraced most of them, in fact, and never condemned any of them. I guess I'll have to pull a Dr. House and "agree" with his opinion. That was a very useful suggestion, by the way, thank you. =P

[Saviour]

One thing to keep in mind; if he doesn't see the usefulness of online inspiration, I can only assume he does not have access to a large collection of books. I can see how some people might be hesitant to allow combos from books they have never seen (or perhaps even heard of, if you're unlucky), no matter how reasonable they are.

So perhaps try to keep the number of books used in a build down. If he's getting the other players on his side, though, chances are either he's misrepresenting/refusing to learn what X does, or you are asking for something that's a lot more powerful than what you currently have. Sometimes DMs can be *****, and ban things that work by RAW because they are 'too powerful', even if the big boost they give is just something that would bring a weak character up to speed.

So... Core Spellcaster? I personally prefer Sorcerers, but they are fairly easy to shoot down if the DM is an ass and knows exactly what spells you have.

[nedz]

I'm curious as to his motivation.
You say he is bull-headed, does this mean he doesn't like being proved wrong ?
Perhaps he is slightly insecure ?
Perhaps he tried using some forum or other and got into a flame war ?
I'm only guessing: talk to him about his experiences online.

[Calanon]

Well the current game he's running, I'm playing fighter/rogue musketeer type character, so no chance of breaking his game with that. One of the biggest examples I can think of is:

Me: Hey man, guess what? I found something online about making a shield fighter type character, like you mentioned to me a while ago.

DM: It's from online? Ignore it, it's probably some bull**** someone made up.

Me: Actually it follows all the rules and stuff, and it's basically just helping you by suggesting feats or classes and useful magic items.

DM: Nah, still can't be bothered by it. People online are losers with ****ty opinions about everything.

Me: Well, I don't think everyone is like that online...

Now lets adjust this so that he loses no matter what

Me: *Rolls a bluff check* Hey dude I just came up with this awesome build, mind if i test it out on your game?

DM: Sure! as long as you didn't get it from online... *fails sense motive*

Me: Nah, its cool i took a few sourcebooks and pulled all my knowledge together and decided that you might be right and all those idiots online don't know how to play this game

DM: See! now your getting it!

Me: Yeah, so about that character... *One super special awesome Batman Wizard later*

DM: Wow that character is great! can't believe you thought of it all on your own

Me: Yeah, I got this from online... see what happens when you actually listen to what others have to say before you automatically assume that someone doesn't know what there talking about? Your like the old guy in the movie that always assumes the younger generation doesn't know whats happening... than at the end of the movie the old guy is getting eaten by zombies...

[KillianHawkeye]

Edit: If you do as the post above this suggests, and he opts that Rich is a loser, get a copy of Eberron Campaign setting and highlight Riches name, show it to him and say "Your dead certain of that? And your still sticking to your guns that all online material is automatically crap form a random bum? Think about it before you answer."

do this in front of the whole group. show the whole group OOTS ahead of time so they will follow what just happened in order to make sure he get's the point that he has to knock it off.

You do realize that Rich Burlew has nothing to do with Eberron, right? :smallsigh:

[NNescio]

You do realize that Rich Burlew has nothing to do with Eberron, right? :smallsigh:

Well, there's the Explorer Handbook, which is in the ECS, 'though it is not the ECS (book) proper.