Need Help With a BIG Battle [PF]

[Rentaromon]

ok i have decided to end the current campaign with a huge 3 way fight:

on 1 side we have 20 lvl1-3 guards, 40-50 goblins, one lvl 7 hero, and 1 lvl 4 goblin chief.

on another we have 25 lvl1-4 bandits, 4 lvl3 PCs, and a lvl 7 bandit lord.

on the last a CR 7 demon, 40-50 zombies(mostly humanoid and goblin), 3 lvl 3 PCs (one with his own agenda)


Im at a loss for how to control a battle that huge!!! the largest scale battle before this was 8 lvl3s vs 25 goblins. Also does it seem like a fair matchup??

TL;DR tips on controlling a huge battle!

[Belril Duskwalk]

Well for one I would suggest not bothering with any rolls that don't directly affect the PCs. Just figure out in advance how many casualties the zombies will inflict on the goblins, how many zombies will fall as a result of the bandit attacks, etc. At the end of a combat round just scrape up your estimated casualties for each side's cannon-fodder and put them out of the way. If the bigger NPC combatants are the types that are liable to be in the thick of it figure out if they are likely to be taking damage while they crack heads and just tick away at their health while the combat plays itself out.

I wonder a little about the wisdom of having level 7 NPCs (and for that matter large groups of Level 3+ NPCs) in a fight where the PCs are topping out at level 3. In a scenario like that, if the PCs get into combat with another army's battle leader, they are very likely to get themselves killed. Given the large number of NPCs with levels that will be near-equivalent to the PCs I think there might be a risk of the players feeling like they are merely a small portion of a very large battle, one where their influence on the outcome may be negligible.
That's my concern anyway. *shrug*

[Sidmen]

I suggest turning the mass-produced minions into Mobs of 10 people each.

My experience with Mobs comes from DnD 4.0 (no, I'm not a huge fan). Effectively, they are a single "unit" that takes up a 3x3 space, and takes only 1/2 damage from normal attacks (but full damage from area attacks), they can attack anyone bordering them, and you can walk "through" them, but are subject to an attack of opportunity for each square.

That should cut your 150-some odd combatants down to 12-15 mobs and the major players. If you want, you can have each mob be 25 people each, make them occupy a 4x4 area and give them more health.

[Rentaromon]

Well for one I would suggest not bothering with any rolls that don't directly affect the PCs. Just figure out in advance how many casualties the zombies will inflict on the goblins, how many zombies will fall as a result of the bandit attacks, etc. At the end of a combat round just scrape up your estimated casualties for each side's cannon-fodder and put them out of the way. If the bigger NPC combatants are the types that are liable to be in the thick of it figure out if they are likely to be taking damage while they crack heads and just tick away at their health while the combat plays itself out.

I wonder a little about the wisdom of having level 7 NPCs (and for that matter large groups of Level 3+ NPCs) in a fight where the PCs are topping out at level 3. In a scenario like that, if the PCs get into combat with another army's battle leader, they are very likely to get themselves killed. Given the large number of NPCs with levels that will be near-equivalent to the PCs I think there might be a risk of the players feeling like they are merely a small portion of a very large battle, one where their influence on the outcome may be negligible.
That's my concern anyway. *shrug*

good idea, it will save time for shure! also as for the PCs feeling weak thats actually the idea. they are not great heroes destine to defeat evil, they are shmucks just starting out. the ones who survive this event will make it to the rank of hero, plus if any of them get their hands on the artifact they gain the power to go toe to toe with the leaders.

[Notreallyhere77]

I suggest turning the mass-produced minions into Mobs of 10 people each.

My experience with Mobs comes from DnD 4.0 (no, I'm not a huge fan). Effectively, they are a single "unit" that takes up a 3x3 space, and takes only 1/2 damage from normal attacks (but full damage from area attacks), they can attack anyone bordering them, and you can walk "through" them, but are subject to an attack of opportunity for each square.

That should cut your 150-some odd combatants down to 12-15 mobs and the major players. If you want, you can have each mob be 25 people each, make them occupy a 4x4 area and give them more health.

Don't forget the "Mob" template from DMG 2, which lets up to large creatures act as a swarm! I once had three mobs of 48 troglodyte death cultists in one encounter (along with archers on a balcony, ettins defending a choke point, and manticores flying around), with ogres and PCs fighting against them. The template worked surprisingly well, and the encounter ran smoothly.

[Rentaromon]

not sure why this was moved...

still would like any advice people have for handling a large scale battle.