[3.5/PF] Building a boss

[ThatLovin'Elan]

So I'm rebuilding a certain "boss (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/npc-s/npc-2/tsuto-kaijitsu)" from the Rise of the Runelords campaign setting to be a challenge to my medium-optimization 4th level party. I use Pathfinder and any 3.5 that’s fun and balanced. The party consists of four players: A Rogue, a Psion, a Warblade, and a Summoner (whose Eidolon puts out some impressive damage). The party has pretty much figured out that this guy is a Monk, but what that means is up to me to decide :D

My original plan was either Unarmed Swordsage or Psychic Warrior, but then I remembered the Hungry Ghost/Qinggong monk and started looking at archetypes. That's when I found the Master of Many Styles (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/master-of-many-styles).

I'm not sure if I'm going to go Monk 6 or Monk 7 with him; he'll get a 20-25 point buy. This is the build I'm looking at now:

Level 1 regular feat - ?
Level 1 monk feat - Elemental Fist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/elemental-fist-combat)
Level 2 monk feat - Marid Style (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/marid-style-combat-style)
Level 3 regular feat - Dragon Style (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dragon-style-combat)
Level 4 monk feat - Marid Spirit (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/marid-spirit-combat)
Level 5 regular feat - ?
Level 6 monk feat - Dragon Ferocity (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dragon-ferocity-combat)

With his single attack, expending one use of Elemental Fist and one use of Stunning Fist:

1d8 + 1 1/2 STR modifier + 2d6 cold + WIS (cold damage) + 1/2 STR damage
-Reach of +5 ft
-Fort save or become entangled in ice for 1d4 rounds
-Fort save or become stunned for one round and shaken for 1d4 rounds

He'll have 8/9 uses of elemental fist/day and 6/7 uses of stunning fist/day.

Not sure what to do with his level 1 and 5 feats (and his level 7 feat, if I make him level 7). Considering Belier's Bite (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/belier-s-bite-combat) for yet another "fun" effect on a single hit.

I'm also considering stacking Hungry Ghost Monk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/hungry-ghost-monk) on there for the lolz, gaining punishing kick, but losing Stunning Fist, and with it, the shaken debuff. Either way, this guy looks like a good boss XD

Any other fun suggestions?

[Curious]

Well, you've almost certainly seen this before, but-


Hungry Ghost (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/hungry-ghost-monk), Qinggong (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/qinggong-monk) monk. Trade Tongue of the Sun and Moon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk#TOC-Tongue-of-the-Sun-and-Moon-Ex-) for Cold Ice Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/cold-ice-strike), trade High Jump (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk#TOC-High-Jump-Ex-) for Gaseous Form (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/g/gaseous-form), trade Wholeness of Body (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk#TOC-Wholeness-of-Body-Su-) for Restoration (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/restoration), take the Dimensional feats on the PFSRD up to Dimensional Dervish (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/dimensional-dervish), grab the Spider Step (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/spider-step) and Cloud Step (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/cloud-step) feats, get a keen guided (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapons-non-core/weapon-property---guided) weapon. Pick up a few style feats, such as Dragon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dragon-style-combat) or Crane (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/crane-wing-combat) style.

Guided adds Wis to damage and to hit in place of Str, Dimensional Dervish allows you to move + full attack, Spider Step allows you to run across water or up walls, cloud Step allows you to run across the air, Gaseous Form lets you go through walls, Restoration is always useful, Cold Ice Strike is a swift action 15d6 attack, Hungry Ghost allows you to regain ki on a crit or kill. Be human.

Basic things to trade out. Your boss should definitely at least have guided hand wraps or something.

[ThatLovin'Elan]

He's not really high enough level to benefit much from Qinggong monk substitutions, but Spider Step could be interesting.

Do you think the benefits of Hungry Ghost outweigh the penalty of losing the 1d4 rounds of shaken from Dragon Ferocity?

[Curious]

He's not really high enough level to benefit much from Qinggong monk substitutions, but Spider Step could be interesting.

Do you think the benefits of Hungry Ghost outweigh the penalty of losing the 1d4 rounds of shaken from Dragon Ferocity?

Hungry Ghost is really only worth it for someone who wants to use lots of Ki abilities throughout the day. I would still grab Gaseous Form though, so you can be very annoying by escaping just as the battle is turning against you.:smallamused:

[ThatLovin'Elan]

Hungry Ghost is really only worth it for someone who wants to use lots of Ki abilities throughout the day. I would still grab Gaseous Form though, so you can be very annoying by escaping just as the battle is turning against you.:smallamused:

Well, the party is supposed to capture him and get information from him :P Though I guess they could capture one of his minions...and then he comes back...

Still, the party has a LOT of people on the bad-guy team they want dead; not sure they need another person they want a rematch with.

[jguy]

Just a tip from a guy who has been burned on making bosses. Unless their armor and saves are so high none of your players can hit him, always make sure they have several minions on their side in the fight. Nothing is worse than spending hours of time and effort building a good boss character and then losing initiative and all your players alpha strike him to death in the first round.

[Stone Heart]

How are you getting Elemental fist as a bonus monk feat at first level? According to Master of Many Styles its the only one of the bonus feats they get that requires the prerequisites. Of course you are the GM and its a boss so go right ahead, I was just wondering.

And I second the minions thing. My players recently just fought a boss I had planned and built up, he got to hit one of them, and next round was dead.

[ThatLovin'Elan]

Just a tip from a guy who has been burned on making bosses. Unless their armor and saves are so high none of your players can hit him, always make sure they have several minions on their side in the fight. Nothing is worse than spending hours of time and effort building a good boss character and then losing initiative and all your players alpha strike him to death in the first round.


And I second the minions thing. My players recently just fought a boss I had planned and built up, he got to hit one of them, and next round was dead.

Heh. I learned this the hard way my very first session DMing; six level 3 players + pets took down a CR 13 monster who was supposed to be their quest giver because he rolled terrible and they crit him almost every hit.

The way the encounter works is:

-Players enter the building, scout around a little, run into his minions.
-Furious fight with minions; after a few rounds, one of them recognizes the PCs and the minions scamper to their boss
-Players follow the remaining minions for boss battle


How are you getting Elemental fist as a bonus monk feat at first level? According to Master of Many Styles its the only one of the bonus feats they get that requires the prerequisites. Of course you are the GM and its a boss so go right ahead, I was just wondering.

There's an odd RAW/RAI question in the MoMS writing.


At 1st level, 2nd level, and every four levels thereafter, a master of many styles may select a bonus style feat or the Elemental Fist feat.

Ok, sounds good.


He does not have to meet the prerequisites of that feat...

Right, got it.


...except the Elemental Fist feat.

Wait, what? Does that mean that you have to take Elemental Fist to qualify for the other feats or that you have to meet the qualifications for Elemental Fist before you take Elemental Fist?

The way I'm ruling MoMS works is thus:

You may take Elemental Fist as one of your Monk bonus feats without meeting the prerequisites. If a style feat requires you to have Elemental Fist, you must first take Elemental Fist before taking that style feat.

Of course, take a look at Dragon Ferocity (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dragon-ferocity-combat):


Special: Taking this feat allows you to qualify for the Elemental Fist feat even if you do not meet that feat’s prerequisites. If you do not meet that feat’s prerequisites, you must choose one of the damage types that feat offers, and you can use only that damage type with your Elemental Fist attacks until you meet the feat’s normal prerequisites. A monk with this feat can use Elemental Fist as if he were a monk of the four winds.

So I could go Dragon Style (Regular Feat)->Dragon Ferocity (MoMS Monk Bonus)-> Elemental Fist (Regular Feat or MoMS Monk Feat) because Dragon Ferocity waves the prerequisites for Elemental Fist.

[ThatLovin'Elan]

Actually, I might as well ask here: I want the minions to be more than mindless mooks. The adventure path calls for 8 minions, and right now I'm thinking:

Level 2 Barbarian x2
Level 2 Marksman x2
Level 2 Rogue x2
Level 3 __________ x1
Level 3 __________ x1

The party is almost definitely going to get the drop on these guys, so they should be able to take down a few of them almost immediately, so I'm not too worried about the party's chances.

What I'm wondering is what I should make the two level 3s. I'd really like them to be crowd control/debuffers...maybe a Bard and a Psion? An Oracle and a Sorcerer? Any fun ideas?