League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta

[Darth Mario]

League of Legends XXIV:
Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta


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If your name is not on the list, send me a PM with your forum name, in game name and server, or post it in this thread in bold. (I recommend PMing in general, but I'm actually obsessive enough to check every post in the thread.) If you do not know which server you are on, it is most likely the region you're in. Any incorrectly formatted request will be ignored.

NA Server
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
9mm | cwcriner
Adumbration | Benefice
aethernox | aethernox
Alemil | Alemil
Alter | AlterForm
Anonomuss | OpticalSage
ArcanistSupreme | Arcanist Supreme
Arbitrarity | Arbitrarity
Archangel Yuki | Yocham
assassin89 | nineballcirno
AtwasAwamps | AtwasAwamps
Aurenthal | Estor
Baron Corm | Baron Corm
Baxter | Thefettered
BinaryMage | BinaryMage
Brother Oni | MarineHK4861
Bliss Authority | Companion N00b
Caradryan | Ying Quliang
cdstephens | cdstephens
Copacetic | Azbu
Creed | Moarzed
CrnvorousMeece | CarnivorousMeece
Croverus | Croverus
Cute_Riolu | Cute Riolu
Dallas-Dakota | MustacheMan
Dante & Vergil | Raphiezar
Darth Mario | Darth Mario
Daverin | Daverin
Dentrag2 | Callinectes
dgnslyr | GANKERLagann
Dichotomy | Kaellin
Djinn in Tonic | The Djinn
Dogmantra | Dogmantra
douglas | DouglasM
Dragonus45 | Dragonus45
Drager0 | Drager0
Dragor | Supernaturalist
Draken | Draken Frosthand
DrakeRaids | DrakeRaids057
Dralnu | TomerIsHot
Duos | DapperGuy
Eldariel | Elealar
efdf | efdf
Elagune | Chopstyx
EndlessWrath | Andurin
Errandir | Ramses III
EternalMelon | EternalMelon
faith | Ferrovax101
FantomFang | FantomFang
Faulty | FaultyClockwork
Fawkes | Count Fawkes
FeverFox | Alcopop
Flechair | Master Zealot
Folytopo | Folytopo
Frankelshtein | McFinkelstein
glemis | glemis
Giant Panda | Le Shirrif
Godskook | Bethor Kookalian
Gourtox | Gourtox
Gruffard | Gruffard
Hanuman | HanumanXoO
Hatevah | Hatevah
Incomp | Incomp
InyutheBeatIs | Believe Inyu
Istari | IstariK
Ivellius | Ivellius
Jamin | CapZich
Joran | Jorana
KaizoMK | KaizoMK
Kara Kuro | RaptorKitty
Kciemir | Ghostface Ki11ah
Kettle | Kettle747
king.com | kingcom
Kinslayer | HaunterReqiuem
kmchii | kmchii
Kopaka | CelesHurricane
Kwazey | Kwazey
LegoShrimp | LegoShrimp
litewarior | litewarior
Lix Lorn | ElixiaLorn
Lord Generic | Lord Generic
LordShotGun | LordShotGun
LostEnder | LostEnder
Low-Key | TheFuzziestBear
lvl 1 sharnian | StarryEagle
Lyxie | Lyxie
Maeglin_Dubh | Tycho Velius
Makensha | Jarbis
MammonAzrael | MammonAzrael
Manticoran | Manticoran
MasatoHyuga | MasatoHyuga
Master_Rahl22 | Goltoth
master256 | QWERTYSTOP
Math_Mage | Mathmage
Mattarias, King. | Mattarias
Malmagor Andrigal | Madmal
Maxios | Maxios20
Meatshield#236 | Meatshield236
Merellis | Merellis
Mike_the_Mystic | Kraemer
Milskidasith | Milskidasith
Mindfreak586 | Mindfreak586
Miscast_Mage | MiscastMage
Moklok | KokoBWare
mrzomby | mrzomby
Mtg_player_zach | MtgPlayerZach
Mushroom Ninja | Mushroom Ninja
Mutant Bunny | WhollySpart
Nanoblack | IwearSILLYhats
Nargan | Naryuk
Necroticplague | Yamidamian
NeoVid | NeoVid
neXianXavia | neXianXavia
Octopus Jack | Thalric
PersonMan | Nsev
Pie Guy | Qwazes
pilvento | Kandrass
PhoeKun | PhoeKun
Poison Fish | Baron Von Flib
Psychotic | SquirrelFish
Raistlin1040 | Sanevale
Rama | Nargus
Raroy | setokaibasmt
RationalGoblin | AtillathePun
Raveypoos | Rhaviewoos
recklessabaddon | recklessabaddon
revolver kobold | A Magic Kobold
Serpentine | Lady Serpentine
Shades of Gray | PierreAbelard
shadowwalker64 | shadowwalker65
Shadow Lord | ShadowLordgiantitp
ShortOne | LittlePoppy
SidCoolios | Irazel
Silverraptor | Silverraptor
Sircarp | Sircarp
Sirroelivan | Sirroelivan
SirSigfried | LibertarianSDR
Slash_712 | Catfud
sofawall | sofawall
St. Viers | St.Viers
Starfols | Starfols
SuperPanda | Lokilar
SweetRein | SweetRein
TalonDemonKing | TalonDemonKing
TechnOkami | Techn0kami
Temotei | Temotei221
Terazul | Allegretto
term1nally s1ck | silverdevilboy
Thanatos 51-50 | Thanatos Erebus
The_Fiery_Tower | TheFieryTower
TheGlowingRogue | I Glow In Dark
Thethan | Thethan
The Rabbler | Paco H Jones
The Shadowmind | The Shadowmind
The Valiant Turtle | Valiant Turtle
Thrantar | Thrantar
Thrawn183 | Thrawnyboy
throtecutter | throtecutter
toasty | toastymow
Tono | Tono Chou
Treayn | Treayn
tribble | Smallbluedot
Tychris1 | Tychris1
userpay | userpay
Vauron | Vauron
Volatar | The Volatar
wandiya | wandiya
Winterwind | DreamingHeart
Winthur | Seyruun
woodzyowl | Woodzyowl
Zabel_Zarock | Jon Talbain
Zeful | Zeful
ZeltArruin | ZeltArruin
ZeroNumerous | ZeroNumerous
Zeteni | Zeteni
0tt3r | 0tt3r[/table]

EU Server--West
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
Acromos | Crannoch
Adumbration | Adumbration
Anonomuss | Anonomuss
Brother Oni | MarineHK4861
Cyborg Mage | Cyborg Mage98
Eldariel | Elealar
Even Human | SlyGuyMcFly
Gauntlet | Isva
HalfDragonCube | giantmudkip
Miscast_Mage | MiscastMage
Morph Bark | Morpheus Bob
Nargan | Naryuk
PersonMan | Scarge
term1nally s1ck | Silverdevilboy
That'd_be_me | AntiLocke
Winterwind | DreamingHeart
Ziren | Zirenoid[/table]

EU Server--Nordic & East
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
Dada | Scrattlebeard
Posca | LDRC
Rockbird | Rockbird[/table]

EU Server--Unspecified
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
Abakus | Terpfen
Alemil | Alemil
Ayra | Ayramatao
Darwin | DarwinBeGood
Endoperez | Endoperez
Heliomance | Sidhe de Grian
Kurrel | GrinningOni
littlebottom | Littlebottom
lord_khaine | Lord_khaine
Narazil | Narazil
Narkis | Narkis
Penthar | Malderon
Raviepoos | Skittles Unicorn
Shadowleaf | AncientPharma
shadowwalker64 | shadowwalker64
Socratov | Mbutu
Voidhawk | Sidhe ne Awk
Volatar | VolatarUK
Zefir | Einerwie
Zombywoof | Zombywoof[/table]

SEA Server
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
abadguy | Smite Thy Enemy[/table]

Unspecified Region
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
Tvtyrant | Tvtyrant
[/table]

??
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
olelia | ??[/table]

Smurf Accounts
{table=head]Smurf Owner|Game Name
sofawall | wallsofa
Silverraptor | GITPSilverraptor
Faulty | MagnetsConfuseMe
ZombyWoof | DiscoGirl
Volatar | Karje
Dogmantra | TheManRatGod
[/table]


MUMBLE
Download here! (http://mumble.sourceforge.net/)
Our main means of communication is a mumble server, playing host to a variety of games, including LoL. Hanging about is a good way to find a game, and if you don't fancy playing something there's always a good chance of a friendly chat. Contact Djinn_in_Tonic via PM if you have a question or want to donate money to keep the server running (Note: Donations are currently being actively sought, you should totally donate).
Address: fish.mumbleboxes.com
Port: 36003

Admins: Djinn_in_Tonic (Djinn); Darth Mario; ShortOne (LittlePoppy, Raven); Dogmantra; Nano (Nanoceraptor).

STREAMS

Silverraptor (http://www.livestream.com/silverrapter?t=527242)
Lyxie (http://www.own3d.tv/lyxie)

GUIDES

Into the Wild - Guide to Being a Better Jungler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10867111#post10867111) by Mtg_player_zach
Laser Bear Udyr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9657101&postcount=39), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Rammus: Can't touch this (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=258919), by Math_Mage
Seizing the fourth digit: Playing your way out of Elo Hell. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=341821) by Math_Mage
Twitch (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10267058&postcount=1448), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Faulty and Raistlin's Quick Build Database: Notes and Stuff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10942497&postcount=1004) by Faulty and Raistlin
Jungle Akali (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10498621&postcount=1358) by Djinn
How to play everyone's favourite Lightning Squirrel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10518034&postcount=154) by Dogmantra
Lee Sin (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=636475) by Dralnu
Super Serious Rumble Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11052926&postcount=904) by Dogmantra
Jax (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11252389&postcount=652) by Mtg_player_zach
OH SNAP Morgana Can Jungle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11295698&postcount=1238) by Dogmantra
Anivia Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11514141&postcount=845) by Eldariel
Tristana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11938481&postcount=1029) by MathMage
Turning Skill Into Elo: Solo Queue Mindset And Methodology (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1220673) by MathMage
How to be a Good Team Leader (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1374492) by Darth Mario

CLASSY VIDEOS FOR CLASSY PEOPLE

Jungle Janna! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC6wm9iaNmM)
How to Win Every Game in League of Legends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrsTE1vpoXM)
Panic at the Nexus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WlCbaLI3I)
Sunfire Cape Sunday (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgjfX6crjrg)
Season One Trailer with Commentary (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/news/season-one-trailer-commentary)
D-Town (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wHp4VJ47v0)
Insanity Mix (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGKN1Adzckk&feature=related)
(Truly, Truly) Outrageous (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC7S05vI-BU&feature=related)
I'm just a noob (Ryze Ryze Ryze again) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpr1T-pgaZY&feature=related)
e.o.n Shen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHs_cGUPQ3M&feature=related)
Vendrim-Ionia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry3E2UQMe3k&hd=1)
Pwn ur FACE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf9VSDt0EN4)
Your -Epic- Dreamhack comes true! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKCs1CyBFLg)
Ezreal Custom Skin Spotlight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn-HoAPlg-c)
I Just Got Ganked (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpNVN33fj4Y&feature=channel_video_title)
Keep Feeding (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaR0frKc4a0)
Champion Rap Battles -- Brolaf vs. Gentleman Cho'Gath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ-r300BVFI)
Combinasion BOOM! League of Legends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwzsXR4sM_Y)
All in the Cards (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9d3342IXSs)
No One Ganks Like Garen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD4uiTQsRJg)

COMICS AND PICS

LoL Comic (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=48169) by Elagune
Learn Your Alphabet (http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6264/g28376.png) by Dogmantra and Pierreabelard (with a mention in Summoner Showcase #36 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy7JWV-HA28&feature=feedu)!)
Chibi Champions (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=763895) by pika7
Gender Swaps (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=606416) by ShowMeYourMoves
Champion Flowchart Guides (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=608154) by Renekton Bot
Patch Day Comic (http://i.imgur.com/kHtwk.jpg) by DaemianFF

TRAVEL BACK IN TIME: PREVIOUS THREADS
League of Legends XXIII: gunbladeface.jpg (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217744)
League of Legends XXII: Teamwork OP, Nerf Nao (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215725)
League of Legends XXI: For The Love Of God Amumu, Stop Crying! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213794)
League of Legends XX: Riot's in the Playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211977)
League of Legends XIX: 15 million players, and nary a Morgana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210332)
League of Legends: XVIII: ┻━┻ ︵ （╯°□°）╯ (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207908)
League of Legends XVII: Gondor Has No Tank, Gondor Needs No Tank (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205488)
League of Legends XVI: Alas, Poor Game Balance, I Knew Him, Morello (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203298)
League of Legends XV: Robots Are Better Than Trees (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201024)
League of Legends XIV: We're So Broken That We're OP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198948)
League of Legends XIII: Our Skill is Hard to Deny (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196765)
League of Legends XII: It's Worth It Because I Said So In The Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194886)
League of Legends XI: It's Hard to Post Like This in Heels (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192695)
League of Legends X: Armored Armadillo Delivers Ambiguous Affirmative (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10646164#post10646164)
League of Legends IX: New Thread Available! Only 6300 IP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188076)
League of Legends VIII: Gali-Os: They're idolicious! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185516)
League of Legends 7: Truly, Truly Outrageous! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182486)
League of Legends 6: Jannaaaaaaaaaa! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178334)
League of Legends 5: Tall Grass Used Garen! DEMACIAAA! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173805)
League of Legends 4:CAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAW (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169616)
League of Legends 3: You only need to click once (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164008s)
League of Legends Goes Where It Pleases 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158135)
League Of Legends: We post where we please. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139094)

[Qwertystop]

I liked how the last thread ended without taking up 2 pages of trying to decide what this one would be called.
EDIT: Wow, first!

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

So...reposted here 'cause I'm dumb.



edit: 2v1 lanes are not fun, I agree. However, if you regularly are facing 2v1 lanes your elo is probably lower than I think a player of your skill, Djin, should be. My solution to anyone who is regularly facing 2v1 is to just play Chogath and get a bunch of defensive runes. Call for ganks. You'll probably do okay. Its not fun, but you'll do okay.

My ELO is definitely lower than my skill should be at...I have to much fun with this game, and haven't yet found a ranked duo partner I'm really comfortable with who is around for games on a regular basis. :smallbiggrin:

And yes...Cho'Gath is pretty much the one guy I can reliably stomp the hell out of a 1v2 with, but that's 'cause I love Cho. :smalltongue:

Good advice though.

[Talesin]

I liked how the last thread ended without taking up 2 pages of trying to decide what this one would be called.


Should we start the discussion now for the next one?

Just want to get some people's thoughts on items and specifically the cost of items relative to their power. Been thinking back to a few builds I used on Annie and Ashe back in the early days of me playing and I realised that I was a pretty terrible player due to the fact I got so few kills in relation to the number of assists.

Since thinking about it i've realised that its mainly down to my item building, which would only allow me to get truly powerful around the 40 minute mark. Of course this mean that other summoners, who had up to this point actually got kills, had a lot more gold than me and were even more powerful by comparison.

I'm not going to go into specifics of these item builds, mainly because that's not really the kind of discussion i'd like to prompt, but i'd like to know what strats people use for item building when looking at the game as a whole.

To use an example, my Ashe build focused on getting things like Phantom Dancer, Last Whisper and IE but they were all quite expensive and I would spend large amounts of the game with little to no power due to the nature of the engagements I fought. To clarify although I had a high(ish) crit chance and high attack speed given I had very little AD my volley didn't hit especially hard and my auto attacks, while frequent, didn't do much.

I've since moved to a build structure that focuses a few cheaper items such as hextech revolver and a fiendish codex, rather than a catalyst and then rod of ages, to boost my AP early, on AP champs, so my spells do burst damage rather than going for the sustain i'd gone previously.

However I've heard much talk of people rushing certain items, such as bloodthirster or Rabadons, in order to give an early advantage. What do people think of this kind of build compared to a slower build up?

TL;DR Do you build cheaper items in order to build up your power or do you think rushing a more expensive item is the way to go?

[Dogmantra]

TL;DR Do you build cheaper items in order to build up your power or do you think rushing a more expensive item is the way to go?

Definitely more expensive items first.
My general rule is that unless I'm playing cheapskate to win (e.g. on Warwick I'll have six finished items when people are just finishing their third because I build super cheap ones like Wit's End as the most expensive), it's one small item before building into proper big ones (small item: less than 1500 gold generally, big item: 2000+)

[Douglas]

So, you know that weird behavior where Blitzcrank grabs someone exactly when they teleport and ends up dragging them all the way across the map back to him? Apparently it can happen with Poppy's charge too.

I was recalling to base at very low health, finished an instant before Poppy arrived with a charge, and then watched as my uncontrollable champion (Akali) ran at very high speed back to the bush I'd recalled from. It was kind of funny watching the return trip, running (complete with animation) so fast it took only 5 to 10 seconds to get from spawn to the brush in bottom lane. Fortunately for me there was no indication of what was happening that Poppy could see, so she'd headed off somewhere else by the time I arrived and I could just recall again uninterrupted.

[Thrawn183]

And yes...Cho'Gath is pretty much the one guy I can reliably stomp the hell out of a 1v2 with, but that's 'cause I love Cho.


Hehe, I see what you did there.

[Daverin]

So, just looked at Graves.

Passive: Scales, starting at 1 armor every 10 seconds in battle, going up to 4 by late levels (already forget what levels scale up...) Qualifer is taking or dishing damage, and that status lasts 4 seconds if damage is not being done by someone.

Q: Dang. It looks okay, until you see what happens when all of the projectiles connect on one person, then it hits like a truck. Scales off of bonus AD, not quite 1 ratio, but close. Very good for farming, as it can either take on the whole wave, or pretty much instakill casters at higher levels if angled right. Eventually can instakill lots of minions, period.

W: No champs tested, so not much to say. It is also a secondary nuke, but it is AP scaling, so... yeah.

E: So... wow. This thing scales hard. It lasts for 4 seconds, but a second is shaved from the CD for every attack you make. At beginning levels, it is 40% increase, and is about a 22 second CD. By level 5, it is 80% AsPd increase (!), and is only 14 seconds. If you shoot the whole time with even just a zeal, it will be right back up when it wears off, maybe a second left on CD.

R: Scales off of bonus AD; the main shot is above 1 ratio, the cone is slightly below. Good base, and I imagine it will hit fairly hard in a fight.

Everything seems decent, he has no fantastically out there range or anything, and has an MS of 305.

His bases? Someone give me an idea of what another ranged carry has at level 18 and other levels. Didn't try to calculate it off of the top of my head, tbh. Don't thing it is that high, though.

Overall, feels cool, I don't think anything is that out there, except perhaps for that incredible W buff. If this guy is getting PD, it is for the crit, and not so much the attack speed. That said, the fact he scales off of bonus AD and does not seem to be able to go off of bases alone suggest that, yes, he will not be getting away with any standard tanky dps build. Although his passive makes me wonder if he could build, say, Atmallet, in all seriousness, and actually be beefy enough to be close to my imagination of what I want, although his MR would still be nothing to write home about. I will say this, with that Q, it definitely appears to be worth it trying to get all the shots to connect, but to do that involves being really close. So either it won't work, or else tankier than usual ranged carry will. I'll let those better than myself figure that one out.

[Darth Mario]

Should we start the discussion now for the next one?

Just want to get some people's thoughts on items and specifically the cost of items relative to their power. Been thinking back to a few builds I used on Annie and Ashe back in the early days of me playing and I realised that I was a pretty terrible player due to the fact I got so few kills in relation to the number of assists.

Since thinking about it i've realised that its mainly down to my item building, which would only allow me to get truly powerful around the 40 minute mark. Of course this mean that other summoners, who had up to this point actually got kills, had a lot more gold than me and were even more powerful by comparison.

I'm not going to go into specifics of these item builds, mainly because that's not really the kind of discussion i'd like to prompt, but i'd like to know what strats people use for item building when looking at the game as a whole.

To use an example, my Ashe build focused on getting things like Phantom Dancer, Last Whisper and IE but they were all quite expensive and I would spend large amounts of the game with little to no power due to the nature of the engagements I fought. To clarify although I had a high(ish) crit chance and high attack speed given I had very little AD my volley didn't hit especially hard and my auto attacks, while frequent, didn't do much.

I've since moved to a build structure that focuses a few cheaper items such as hextech revolver and a fiendish codex, rather than a catalyst and then rod of ages, to boost my AP early, on AP champs, so my spells do burst damage rather than going for the sustain i'd gone previously.

However I've heard much talk of people rushing certain items, such as bloodthirster or Rabadons, in order to give an early advantage. What do people think of this kind of build compared to a slower build up?

TL;DR Do you build cheaper items in order to build up your power or do you think rushing a more expensive item is the way to go?

It all depends on the champion, really. But I will note that in almost all cases, you are better off building AD before Attack Speed and crit on carries. If you have a PD/LW/IE build, get your BFS from the IE first, and complete that before moving on to Zeal. You'll find yourself doing more reliable damage and securing more kills.

[Delusion]

So, got wrost possible way to end my loosing streak of 6 games.

I fed badly but our team managed to win despite me.

Well atleast I was only who warded so I was marginally useful. And just when I was getting comfortable in playing Riven in 3v3...

[Talesin]

It all depends on the champion, really. But I will note that in almost all cases, you are better off building AD before Attack Speed and crit on carries. If you have a PD/LW/IE build, get your BFS from the IE first, and complete that before moving on to Zeal. You'll find yourself doing more reliable damage and securing more kills.

Yeah this is a similar thing i've been working towards compared to my build before hand. Only got the AP one (got Annie in mind) to hand but been thinking something like boots + pots into Sorc treads + Hextech Revolver, follow up with Rabadon's into a voidstaff. Finish Will of the Ancients and go from there.

Compared to before where I attempted to squeeze a rod of ages and archangels into the same build.


Definitely more expensive items first.
My general rule is that unless I'm playing cheapskate to win (e.g. on Warwick I'll have six finished items when people are just finishing their third because I build super cheap ones like Wit's End as the most expensive), it's one small item before building into proper big ones (small item: less than 1500 gold generally, big item: 2000+)

I was thinking cheap was more around the 2k mark with expensive being anything upward of 2.5k that had a large quantity of the gold coming from one item. But what you're saying mirrors some of the conclusions I had drawn.

[toasty]

If you are not getting items like Rod of Ages by 17 minute or IE by 20 minutes you need to farm better. Early game the majority of your items are gained through farming.

Don't get a hextech gunblade on Annie. She doesn't have enough sustained damage to warrant it the way heroes like Kennen and Cass do.

On ashe, if you are having trouble getting IE really fast, you can get away with something like a 2-3 dorans blades first. But because of her base low damage I really suggest rushing an IE. That or getting a Brutalizer and CDR boots for more utility.

[Tychris1]

Apparently karma in this game hates me. I went from a 21/7/9 Fiddlesticks, 1v5ing everyone to a 1/11/5 Urgot right afterwards purely because my lane partner (Cho'Gath) refused to communicate and had the reflexes of a dead cat. Just goes to show that without communication, your whole team is screwed over.

[Daverin]

... For a moment I thought you were talking about the champion Karma. :smalltongue:

Also, as far as what to build first on carries, I would like to note that although the above seems largely true on ranged carries, I think the classical "melee carries" such as Trynd and Yi are better off at least getting a zeal before finishing their first big AD item (and, of course, there is z3rg's core for trynd, which doesn't even include IE or BT to start with.) Reason being that they have strong AD steroids (and in Trynd's case a good AD base,) and would be better served by getting in that aspd multiplier. I also actually find farming easier with a zeal/bfs instead of a big ad item on carries... Although if it takes from damage output in fights, that isn't very helpful.

[Tychris1]

Looking back at it, I can see why you thought that.....

[Qaera]

Hopefully I'll be able to play this weekend. :smallsmile:

~ ♅

[Psyborg]

On the build up slowly vs. save for big item debate...well, I'm not sure what's optimal. Looking at my own past habits on my four most-played characters...

Ryze has his One True Core Build (Tear+Frozen Heart+Banshee's Veil), and there is no other. Everything after that is gravy, though I'm a fan of Abyssal Scepter + Will of the Ancients.

On Irelia, I rush GP10 and trinity force like everyone else, and then build piecemeal, often getting the resistance components first. Not a few games have I ended with mercs, triforce, philo stone, heart of gold, negatron cloak, and chain vest. Turning that negatron and chainvest into their eventual endgame items tends to take a lot longer.

I play most ranged carries occasionally, and usually rush IE. On my main, Vayne, I build a bit weirder. May or may not go for the 2-3 Dorans; after that it's Black Cleaver, BF Sword, Zeal, BFS-->Infinity Edge, Zeal-->Phantom Dancer. Again, there's probably an unupgraded vamp scepter in there somewhere.

Kog'maw, of course, is a special case. I build him attack-speed/on-hit, so his offensive core primarily is cheap items. Sword of the Divine, Wit's End, and then the big one, Madred's Bloodrazor (which is usually built last due to %HP being less valuable than flat on-hits until people build up a good amount of HP). I've been known, however, to grab both recurve bows after SotD before finishing either Wit's or Madred's; though you're not really useful without Bioarcane Barrage with this approach, it gets you a lot of burst during BAB a lot sooner than you might expect, which is handy for lane dominance (especially if you throw in an early green elixir).

So I guess overall I tend toward the "build small items and/or pieces" side of things.

[tribble]

WARNING: LONG.
So, last night i had the longest game I think I've ever had in LoL. It started with me playing amumu on a lark, loading up my jungler runepage and then forgetting to take smite. Ugh. Well, fortunately my team was good enough and my ult was strong enough to hang on even though I was getting by with just a philo stone and HoG forsomething like twenty minutes. There was back and forth for like forty minutes, including several barons. They got the first, and left us with one nexus tower. We got the next, and left them with one nexus tower. Near the end of the game twitch snuck into their base ( they had the middle inhibitor destroyed) and suicide backdoored their remaining nexus tower. So, the other team now has an inhibitor and not much else in terms of defense for their nexus. We have a nexus tower and our top inhibitor turret. Around the fifty minute mark the other team gets the baron while we derp around. GG, right? Well, no, they can't win a 4v5, baron buff or no, and they can't all push together or they run the risk of twitch backdooring their inhibitor and nexus. We're not stupid enough to go fight a baron-buffed team (THANK YOU, TEAM) and they're not confident enough to push.
So we sit. In the base. And wait for the baron buff to wear off. The baron buff eventually terminates WITHOUT ANY FIGHTING FOR THE DURATION OF THE BUFF. Finally the baron respawns and we snag it without incident. I, like everyone else, have completed my very expensive, luxurious build by this point and could have potentially soloed the baron. I mean, I had nearly 4.5 thousand HP, tank items, and I do percentile damage. I did not solo the baron. We all beat on the big worm and crushed him. We then marched into their base, knocked over their respawned inhibitor, and then Jarvan and I, both of whom built full tank, are the only players left with living champions after a very fast teamfight. We autoattack the nexus to death ourselves.

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/1716/loooongaaaame.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/543/loooongaaaame.png/)

[Delusion]

Been thinking (half seriously) if I should get one full cdr runes page that I could use for all champions first, instead of having only 2 half finished pages.

[toasty]

Been thinking (half seriously) if I should get one full cdr runes page that I could use for all champions first, instead of having only 2 half finished pages.

You should be a boss and get 8 rune pages like me, most of which are all variations on the same thing (I have 2 pages with Armor runes at this point. Why can't I have unlimited rune pages, Riot? WHY????!)


My ELO is definitely lower than my skill should be at...I have to much fun with this game, and haven't yet found a ranked duo partner I'm really comfortable with who is around for games on a regular basis.


I was really talking about your normal elo. But yeah, I'm sure your ranked elo is lower than it should be.

Also: you don't need a ranked partner. I know everyone says you do, but I think the truth is that they're not true men (or women, or whatever :smalltongue:). Real league of legends players go into solo queue and carry games by themselves, duo or no. :smallbiggrin:

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

So, Graves.

I know there's a tradition of me being in love with new champions, but that hasn't exactly been the case recently (Skarner, Wukong, Yorick, Talon...they've all been fun, but...meh). Leona was the only exception, and that's only after I figured out that I can play her like a carry while still being my team's Tank.

Graves though? It looks like we're back on track. He's got what I love about Trist, what I love about Vayne, and is just plain fun. I may be AD carrying once again with someone other than Caitlyn (thank god).


I was really talking about your normal elo. But yeah, I'm sure your ranked elo is lower than it should be.

Oh, my normal ELO is tanked. I do troll builds, play with people with less technical skill than me because I love their company and/or have fun in games with them, and sometimes just insta-lock random on a whim...or do crazy things like Mid Mundo (although my track record with that is actually rather good...) :smallbiggrin:


Also: you don't need a ranked partner. I know everyone says you do, but I think the truth is that they're not true men (or women, or whatever :smalltongue:). Real league of legends players go into solo queue and carry games by themselves, duo or no. :smallbiggrin:

Oh, I know. But I'm to much of a social animal to want to be in a game with nobody I know. :smallbiggrin:

[Qwertystop]

I've been switching to Draft Normals instead of Blind Pick Normals, in preparation for Ranked in a few levels.

Not. One. Troll.

HOORAY!!!!

[Talesin]

If you are not getting items like Rod of Ages by 17 minute or IE by 20 minutes you need to farm better. Early game the majority of your items are gained through farming.

I do agree about the farming bit. Was getting good on Ezrael at farming and then they took my champ away. I've seen talk of 100CS by 10 minutes, or 20 minutes can't remember, and i've hit that once or twice on ashe and once on Ezrael. But I agree there is work to be done there.


Don't get a hextech gunblade on Annie. She doesn't have enough sustained damage to warrant it the way heroes like Kennen and Cass do.

I've never got gunblade on Annie, I upgrade it to Will of the Ancients rather than Gunblade. Cheaper, identical Spell Vamp and slightly more AP in addition to giving other champs AP and spell vamp is better in my opinion. Mainly because i'm terrible at 'on-use' items such as gunblade.


On ashe, if you are having trouble getting IE really fast, you can get away with something like a 2-3 dorans blades first. But because of her base low damage I really suggest rushing an IE. That or getting a Brutalizer and CDR boots for more utility.

I'll give the rushing IE/Brutalizer a go on Ashe. I've always found a lack of damage on Ashe to be a problem, even had a go with a manamune build for a while. I actually preferred it over everything i've run before but given the attitude of some of my team mates towards me building the item, despite feeling i've contributed much more throughout the game, i've dropped the idea.

[Delusion]

You should be a boss and get 8 rune pages like me, most of which are all variations on the same thing (I have 2 pages with Armor runes at this point. Why can't I have unlimited rune pages, Riot? WHY????!)




Oh I will get more rune pages eventually, but I was thinking of wether I should do one page I can use on nearly every champ first.

[shadowwalker64]

Oh I will get more rune pages eventually, but I was thinking of wether I should do one page I can use on nearly every champ first.

Everyone likes armour yellows no matter who they are. CDR/Magic resist blues are good. Reds are either magic pen or phys pen depending on who you play (everyone else you play benefits from them as well, just not as much).

There, runepage for every single person in the game, all realtively cheap.

I find that my quints are what I change most from game to game. May range from moar dakka (AD) to moar dakka (AP). AD quints are pretty universal if you are looking for something to fill the quints temporarily, as they help in last-hitting a bit as well as making up for the abysmal starting AD of some champs. It is questionable whether or not they are cost efficient, though.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

For my Skarnerventures tonight, should I go Triforce Tank, Triforce Hybrid, AD, AP, or none of the above?

[TechnOkami]

For my Skarnerventures tonight, should I go Triforce Tank, Triforce Hybrid, AD, AP, or none of the above?

I'll be running him with an AP build, so if you do something like triforce hybrid (because according to Riot he's supposed to be a pure hybrid champion) then we can get a broader spectrum of everything about Skarner.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Kinkou is the name of the clan which Akali, Shen, and Kennen are from.


Instead of one ninja or the other, take the whole clan of ninjas!

Oh. I read one of the story pages a long time ago (I think it was Amumu's?) and was so disappointed by how lame it was that I never bothered with the others. Are those ones worth perusing?


Unfortunately for Rammus, 1 of 2 things are already waiting for him there. One of them is Garen. The other is Skarner.

Fair point. But why would a Rammus, ninja or otherwise, ever be afraid of a Garen? And I have yet to see evidence that anyone should ever be afraid of a Skarner. Maybe the buffs will prove me wrong.


Oh I will get more rune pages eventually, but I was thinking of wether I should do one page I can use on nearly every champ first.

This guide is pretty decent (http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=5693), and I'm pretty sure it addresses exactly what you want to know.

[Eldariel]

Trimogs Impaler on Ranged DPS? What is the world coming to? :smalltongue:

Sivir, much?


Not sure how serious Saint is, but he has said like 5 times that "Jarvan is King [in the jungle]" on stream. Arcanoi has led me to believe otherwise. Thoughts?

He's always been good, everyone's known that, he just fell off with the Lee Sin FotM. That said, Saint is also the guy who touts Master Yi as the Best Jungler Ever and started the GP Jungle FotM before the rework, so take everything he says with a grain of salt. My personal opinion tho, Jarvan is fine.


I would say there is a difference between building Frozen Mallet and building Atmallet, since Atmas really is a tanky dps item. To be fair, we have no clue what they'll give him, but I doubt they'd really make a "tanky ranged." It's more like a pipedream. What I mean by tanky ranged hybrid is actually pretty much supported by what they said, which is that they want to encourage Graves to occasionally step up and fire close up, likely then to reposition.

Also, I meant tanky ranged AD. There are, of course, a few tanky options with ranged attacks for lane that are AP.

Urgot wants a word with you. Told me it had something to do with showing you just what "tanky" means. He also had a cleaver so might want to be careful.


Oh. I read one of the story pages along time ago (I think it was Amumu's?) and was so disappointed by how lame it was that I never bothered with the others. Are those ones worth perusing?

*shrug* Depends on what floats your boat. Some of them are fun. Some of them are interesting. Some of them are a waste of space (Amumu's, for instance). So...yeah.

[Daverin]

Urgot wants a word with you. Told me it had something to do with showing you just what "tanky" means. He also had a cleaver so might want to be careful..

To be honest, I never even realized Urgot was that tanky until the discussions about him recently. I then was considering playing him, but ultimately... I'm not quite sure. For one, I can't say I would be able to put up with the model for long... >.>

Also, I tend to not like champs who dip off, although I do like winning the lane. Actually, I feel like I always do better in the laning phase, and dip off myself. So, having a champ who does that... Not sure that is a good idea. :smalltongue:

[toasty]

I do agree about the farming bit. Was getting good on Ezrael at farming and then they took my champ away. I've seen talk of 100CS by 10 minutes, or 20 minutes can't remember, and i've hit that once or twice on ashe and once on Ezrael. But I agree there is work to be done there.

Perfect CS is 100 by ten minutes. Most of the time, most pros don't hit that. A good marker is 100 CS before fifteen minutes.

Honestly though, if you have the highest farm on your team, even if its under that mark, that means you are farming well. Also realize that having 60 CS but 3 kills by the 15 minute mark is probably acceptable. Kills are worth about 30 CS, assists half that (assuming you get the full 175 assist gold). Balance your CS/harass/attempts to kill accordingly.


I've never got gunblade on Annie, I upgrade it to Will of the Ancients rather than Gunblade. Cheaper, identical Spell Vamp and slightly more AP in addition to giving other champs AP and spell vamp is better in my opinion. Mainly because i'm terrible at 'on-use' items such as gunblade.

I meant Hextech Relover/WotA. Sorry. I do that. I also call Wits End Last Whisper and the attack speed boots "assault treads"


I'll give the rushing IE/Brutalizer a go on Ashe. I've always found a lack of damage on Ashe to be a problem, even had a go with a manamune build for a while. I actually preferred it over everything i've run before but given the attitude of some of my team mates towards me building the item, despite feeling i've contributed much more throughout the game, i've dropped the idea.

Do you have mana/level yellows? If you don't, I would suggest rushing a Philo stone on Ashe. Ignore your teamates, its a cost effective item. Manamune is probably a bad idea.

Ashe has the "worst" damage of all the Carries. She has the most utility. I realize that she's expensive, but I say you should try Miss Fortune, she has a much easier time laning because of her higher burst/damage early game, she farms very easily with her ult, and if you never use her E and don't spam her Q in lane you don't need any mana items. Your build is the same as Ashe: IE/Bloothirster+Phantom Dancer then either GA, Bveil or QQS.


He's always been good, everyone's known that, he just fell off with the Lee Sin FotM. That said, Saint is also the guy who touts Master Yi as the Best Jungler Ever and started the GP Jungle FotM before the rework, so take everything he says with a grain of salt. My personal opinion tho, Jarvan is fine.

A) MTG_Player_Zach refuses to sumbit that Yi is not a good jungler as well. I don't really know how to convince Yi players that Yi is bad. :smalltongue:

B) I think the best thing about Saint is that he's the guy that will try to make everything jungle. That's good because, as we've seen, stuff like GP (pre-rework) Jungle and Taric Jungle can actually work with the right setup. Saint's argument for Jarvan was that he has a lot of CC, and I have to say, Jarvan early ganks are really, really scary.

C) Yeah, Jarvan is probably fine. My only fear is that I feel like he might be the most blue dependent jungler in the game currently, how true is that?

In other news: What about an AD Alistair in the jungle? How would that work? The build would basically be Wriggles+HoG+Triforce.

[ArcanistSupreme]

*shrug* Depends on what floats your boat. Some of them are fun. Some of them are interesting. Some of them are a waste of space (Amumu's, for instance). So...yeah.

Which ones would you say are fun? I'd like to check a couple out to see if Riot can change my mind about its writing staff.

[Dogmantra]

Also, I tend to not like champs who dip off, although I do like winning the lane. Actually, I feel like I always do better in the laning phase, and dip off myself. So, having a champ who does that... Not sure that is a good idea. :smalltongue:

He only dips off if you build solely for the early game. Traditional AD carry build of IE/PD works just dandy. He's a tad unsafe because of his Sivir-range, BUT he still has wonderful poke, and his armour reduction is actually a rather nice AD booster.

[Silverraptor]

I think everyone forgets corki exists.

Wait, who is this? Lego, stop making up champions.:smalltongue:

[Daverin]

So, found out Graves' bases. He actually has one of the best base ADs for AD carries, although it is not at the level of the usual tanky dps. His armor, though, is fantastic. It is 15 base, equal to Urgot, and comparable to bruisers, not carries like Caitlyn. He also has a fair health pool. In general, he may have slight power creep for his bases. So yeah, that is promising for his laning.

I definitely think I found a champ I want to get better with. And maybe Urgot, now, thanks to Dog.

And wow, Jailbreak Graves DOES look somewhat like Cable from X-men (thanks LoLWiki.)

[balistafreak]

Sup.

I can go 6 ArPen Reds and rest AD, combined with armor yellows, AS blues, and 21/0/9 masteries to do a 4-small camps jungle with Graves. (The 4-small camps jungle is where you run in and do their entire wraiths camp, then do a normal wolves route, smiting at your own wraiths again.) True Grit doesn't really enable his jungle, though (it's relatively insignificant), it's Buckshot's absolulely awesome burst AND AoE damage to small camps.

This. Is. Hilarious.

I do have to wait between my wolves and wraiths for smite to come off CD, but I can start with cloth a

As for his little finicky pieces...

Buckshot goes through enemies. It is NOT like Ashe volley, which is blocked by creeps, but goes THROUGH them. This means good times, and also faster jungles.

His Smokescreen is... weird. I still don't know exactly what it does beyond a tiny bit of damage and a slow. My enemies QQ'd about it killing them, though, and seemed to act pretty dumb when they walked into it though...

Quick Draw is a dash a little shorter than Shen's taunt (probably a bit shorter, actually). I haven't yet tried dashing over walls with it, but something tells me that like Riven, Riot said "no". The attack speed boost is a eyebrow raising 40% at the first rank, but after that it's just another 10% and a second off the cooldown. Eh.

Collateral Damage is nothing but that - damage. But DAMN if it isn't an AoE melter. Yeah, the single target nuke damage is nothing to sneeze at. Catching the entire team in it is a huge tide-turner.

[TechnOkami]

Which ones would you say are fun? I'd like to check a couple out to see if Riot can change my mind about its writing staff.

Malzahar + Kassadin +Kog Maw + Cho'Gath have that whole Eldritch Horror Void plot going on.

Swain + Jarvan have an eternal hatred towards each other.

There's currently a power struggle in Noxus since their King's death. Swain is assumed to more or less be running the show now. LeBlanc and Swain have a subplot going on about the secretive Black Rose organization.

I'll be frank, the character bios alone aren't too interesting. However, if you do read them all (and come to an understanding of what exactly everything means with all the side plots going on) and keep up w/ the Journal of Justice, it paints an interesting picture imo.

[Dogmantra]

His Smokescreen is... weird. I still don't know exactly what it does beyond a tiny bit of damage and a slow. My enemies QQ'd about it killing them, though, and seemed to act pretty dumb when they walked into it though...


It's an inverse bush. You can only see things that are attacking you or are inside the smokescreen with you.

[Daverin]

Quick Draw is a dash a little shorter than Shen's taunt (probably a bit shorter, actually). I haven't yet tried dashing over walls with it, but something tells me that like Riven, Riot said "no". The attack speed boost is a eyebrow raising 40% at the first rank, but after that it's just another 10% and a second off the cooldown. Eh.

Actually, I believe I've heard it does make it through walls. Surprise.

As for the scaling: Not that it is huge, but the "effect" it has on its use is. Like I said, that combined 40% more aspd and 4 seconds off? It makes it pretty much stay up if you keep firing. So, yeah it isn't bad at all. And still, 80% aspd is pretty large. Is there even a comparable buff to aspd?

Also, someone apparently has "successfully" jungled with Graves, and he took W at 2 and E at 3 instead of the likely more intelligent QEQW. Of course, there are many reasons I'd object to a ranged carry jungling even if he can live through it, but... yeah. He did wolves start, btw.

[Darth Mario]

It's an inverse bush. You can only see things that are attacking you or are inside the smokescreen with you.

I walked straight out of one into a Caitlyn trap that had been removed from my vision after finishing off Graves today.

I was on 100 health. I died.

I feel stupid.

[Daverin]

I walked straight out of one into a Caitlyn trap that had been removed from my vision after finishing off Graves today.

I was on 100 health. I died.

I feel stupid.

I think Phreak did a good job in his spotlight revealing this trump of the W, which is that you can potentially force stupid decisions on the enemy, as they cannot tell if they are, quite literally in your case, walking into a trap. It would be a great setup for a jungle gank. I will be eager to see how far I can take this aspect as I learn Graves.

[shadowwalker64]

I think Phreak did a good job in his spotlight revealing this trump of the W, which is that you can potentially force stupid decisions on the enemy, as they cannot tell if they are, quite literally in your case, walking into a trap. It would be a great setup for a jungle gank. I will be eager to see how far I can take this aspect as I learn Graves.

Jungle Graves gogo

[Daverin]

Jungle Graves gogo

Well, I meant more setting it up for your jungler while laning as Graves. Obviously, if you are jungle Graves and throw the smoke, they KNOW you are ganking. :smalltongue:

[tyckspoon]

Actually, I believe I've heard it does make it through walls. Surprise.

As for the scaling: Not that it is huge, but the "effect" it has on its use is. Like I said, that combined 40% more aspd and 4 seconds off? It makes it pretty much stay up if you keep firing. So, yeah it isn't bad at all. And still, 80% aspd is pretty large. Is there even a comparable buff to aspd?


Tristana's Q. Starts at 30% and scales at 15% per point to 90.

Edit: Warwick's Aspd buff is 80% on self, Udyr gets 85% from switching into Tiger's active. Nunu gets 65% + move speed on two champs with no lapse in uptime, assuming you remember to recast Blood Boil every 15 seconds. There's a few more 70-90% hanging around on various longer-CD ults. It's not really an uncommonly powerful buff, although tying it to a dash is very nice and potential for 100% uptime during a fight is good.

[balistafreak]

I think Phreak did a good job in his spotlight revealing this trump of the W, which is that you can potentially force stupid decisions on the enemy, as they cannot tell if they are, quite literally in your case, walking into a trap. It would be a great setup for a jungle gank. I will be eager to see how far I can take this aspect as I learn Graves.


Jungle Graves gogo


I play Graves on Summoner's Rift as a jungler.

Me: I play Graves on Summoner's Rift as a jungler.

[Eldariel]

Which ones would you say are fun? I'd like to check a couple out to see if Riot can change my mind about its writing staff.

Eeh, I don't remember all that much of them; I just remember I had a good time reading some. That is to say, I remember the information but not the guise.

[Daverin]

I feel like my comment is going to be misconstrued as for jungle graves, which I am not... :smalltongue:

[potatocubed]

Playing Gangplank. Got a ping of 400, which reconnects don't fix. Got fewest deaths and most assists on my team. (5/9/25 or something)

We lost, but I think I can look on my contribution and be proud. Even if I do have to look on it in stop-motion.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Also, someone apparently has "successfully" jungled with Graves, and he took W at 2 and E at 3 instead of the likely more intelligent QEQW. Of course, there are many reasons I'd object to a ranged carry jungling even if he can live through it, but... yeah. He did wolves start, btw.

Now my all-smite jungle comp is even more viable! Graves/Ezrael/Urgot, Udyr/Warwick/GP/Generic Tanky AD jungler (pick two), Alistar/Taric, and Karthus/Sion. Sadly, Amumu and Fiddle probably shouldn't join in because their laning is terribad.

I kind of sort of really want to try this. Anyone interested?

EDIT: Also, does anyone know when the harrowing runes will be available? I need me some regen quints.

[Eldariel]

EDIT: Also, does anyone know when the harrowing runes will be available? I need me some regen quints.

Are they gimped or the real thing this year?

[Darth Mario]

Amumu and Fiddle probably shouldn't join in because their laning is terribad.

Amumu, for one, can certainly operate as a duo lane "support" once he has a few ranks in tantrum and bandage toss, as well as a little gp/5. Just make sure he gets jungle first, and he'll fit onto your comp.

[Spartacus]

Oh look, tier 2.5 runes again. Looks like I'll be skipping these.

[Eldariel]

You know how Olaf's W scales with HP? Well, this Olaf most certainly did:
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/968/dominionolafbuild.png

Amusingly, this actually made me consider the merits of stacking Warmog's on him; he does superb base damage with no items especially with the E, scales his Q with his W, has inherent ArPen and is a tanky DPS. So, why not get as tanky as you can go? :smallbiggrin: Of course, Trist was still chewing him up and god forbid they have someone with a percentile attack or Bloodrazor/DFG...
Also, I just found out that trying to Petrify a Kat in her ult is about the hardest thing in the League. It CAN be done apparently; I accidentally landed one. But she needs to be facing you. During that whirlwind. Yeah, I usually whiffed.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Amumu, for one, can certainly operate as a duo lane "support" once he has a few ranks in tantrum and bandage toss, as well as a little gp/5. Just make sure he gets jungle first, and he'll fit onto your comp.

See, I thought about that, but then they'll expect it. I want anyone and everyone on the team to be able to start in lane or in the jungle So that the opponents never know who to expect. That's half of the novelty of the team comp. There need to be more viable AP junglers...

EDIT:
Are they gimped or the real thing this year?


Oh look, tier 2.5 runes again. Looks like I'll be skipping these.

I dunno. I've only been playing since Christmas, so I always thought that they were just the same thing with goofy pictures. That's way lame if they aren't.

[Eldariel]

See, I thought about that, but then they'll expect it. I want anyone and everyone on the team to be able to start in lane or in the jungle So that the opponents never know who to expect. That's half of the novelty of the team comp. There need to be more viable AP junglers...

Karthus and Fiddle are both viable in the lane and the jungle. I'd pick Ez or Vayne for ranged AD and then like Lee Sin and Alistar for AD and a support tank initiator for good measure.

EDIT: Lee Sin can carry CV and Ezreal can have an Exhaust. Alistar & Fiddle need their Flash, Karthus can carry Revive or TP or Ignite or something. Or Flash.

[Spartacus]

Actually, it seems that dodge and move speed, at least, once you include the soft cap/multiplicitive stacking of them end up very very close to the tier 3 ones.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Karthus and Fiddle are both viable in the lane and the jungle. I'd pick Ez or Vayne for ranged AD and then like Lee Sin and Alistar for AD and a support tank initiator for good measure.

Sure Fiddle can lane, but his jungling is just so much better. He's also not super great against people that can push the lane really hard (as in any other AP caster beside Kassadin). There's a reason that you don't see much Fiddle in the middle. But I guess that since this comp will only work in normal games/low ELO anyway, there's no real reason not to lane Fiddlesticks.

[Eldariel]

Sure Fiddle can lane, but his jungling is just so much better. He's also not super great against people that can push the lane really hard (as in any other AP caster beside Kassadin). There's a reason that you don't see much Fiddle in the middle. But I guess that since this comp will only work in normal games/low ELO anyway, there's no real reason not to lane Fiddlesticks.

Fiddles isn't really that bad in lane, he just has some bad MUs. Ideally, you place him against someone without a stun and watch him walk all over them. He's probably better on top than in mid, actually. Yeah, his pushing isn't the best but Dark Wind does alright. I mean, yeah, I wouldn't want to be Fiddle against Anivia, but I wouldn't want to be a lot of things against Anivia.

[Raistlin1040]

Harrowing Runes are up, it appears. Dodge, Flat Health, and Movespeed ones are very close to their Tier 3 counterparts for half the cost. MPen one is .14 less penetration, ArPen one is .25 less Penetration, AP one is .39 less AP. All are basically the prices of tier 2 runes for close to tier 3 benefit.

[Daverin]

Last I recall, hallowing runes were about being far cheaper than the t3, with stats that or generally only slightly below the t3 stats. That said, I have none to get, because I have all of the relevant t3. O.O

Also, Graves. I was able to play him. I was not disappointed. At. All. Already my favorite ranged carry so far. Oh, and, with just a BT (and an impressive Taric, good job Arcanist!)... I don't think I died once. I was able to tank damage, and both W and E are, in fact, great escape. It was incredible. And dat burst.

The only thing is he feels mana hungry. I probably could just go mana regen runes, but... meh. It was also an interesting game in that most of the enemies are good at getting away or catching you (Irelia, Kass, Nid.) Also, Ashe and Skarner, so good at pinning someone down. I loved when Skarner ulted me. Next to their turret, with all 5 there. I lived. :smallbiggrin:

[Litewarior]

Renekton Bot's Renekton Judgement was entertaining, I don't know about any others really.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Fiddles isn't really that bad in lane, he just has some bad MUs. Ideally, you place him against someone without a stun and watch him walk all over them. He's probably better on top than in mid, actually. Yeah, his pushing isn't the best but Dark Wind does alright. I mean, yeah, I wouldn't want to be Fiddle against Anivia, but I wouldn't want to be a lot of things against Anivia.

See, the problem is that 95% of viable junglers also do fairly well top. I guess it all just comes down to the enemy comp. So run this comp in normal draft pick?


Harrowing Runes are up, it appears. Dodge, Flat Health, and Movespeed ones are very close to their Tier 3 counterparts for half the cost. MPen one is .14 less penetration, ArPen one is .25 less Penetration, AP one is .39 less AP. All are basically the prices of tier 2 runes for close to tier 3 benefit.

Bleh. I'd rather just pay full price for the real McCoy.


...I loved when Skarner ulted me. Next to their turret, with all 5 there. I lived. :smallbiggrin:

Along these lines, maybe it was the player, but I never really cared if Skarner was there. He maybe had one successful gank on us, but we weren't being as careful as we could have been and our deaths were probably more due to our carelessness than his presence. Skarner is just so meh, even post buff. His ult barely moves anyone at all, especially if there are slows or stuns being thrown around (read: every game). Is there a video out there of someone actually playing Skarner well (no, Phreak playing against people who are intentionally feeding him doesn't count)?

[Tanuki Tales]

I've never bought Riot points....

But I'm about to spend 35 bucks for the champs and their Halloween skins.

Except Blitzcrank. I don't like him or his skin.

[potatocubed]

Is there a video out there of someone actually playing Skarner well (no, Phreak playing against people who are intentionally feeding him doesn't count)?

Skarner's main problem is that he really, really needs to get his farm on. Or get fed. He needs to build AD and AP and tanky if he wants to be effective, so if he has just an average amount of gold you can more or less ignore him.

Possible solutions are gold items or just carefully feeding him assists until he can start taking kills for himself.

[ex cathedra]

I dunno. I've only been playing since Christmas, so I always thought that they were just the same thing with goofy pictures. That's way lame if they aren't.

Difference between Tier 3 Dodge and Tier 2.5 Dodge quints, assuming Dodge Seals, Masteries, and Ninja Tabi: 0.28%. Decreases if you're Jax or Sivir.

Difference betweeen Tier 3 Movement Speed and Tier 2.5 Movement Speed quints, assuming between base 300 and 330 movement and boots 2: 1.221 to 1.32 points of movement.

Difference between Tier 3 HP and Tier 2.5 HP runes: 6 hp.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Difference between Tier 3 Dodge and Tier 2.5 Dodge quints, assuming Dodge Seals, Masteries, and Ninja Tabi: 0.28%. Decreases if you're Jax or Sivir.

Difference betweeen Tier 3 Movement Speed and Tier 2.5 Movement Speed quints, assuming between base 300 and 330 movement and boots 2: 1.221 to 1.32 points of movement.

Difference between Tier 3 HP and Tier 2.5 HP runes: 6 hp.

But how many times have you just barely been out of range of a skillshot that would have dealt the killing blow, or escaped with under 18 health? Sure, situations like these are pretty rare, but it's so awesome when they happen that's it's totally worth the extra IP.

EDIT:
I've never bought Riot points....

But I'm about to spend 35 bucks for the champs and their Halloween skins.

Except Blitzcrank. I don't like him or his skin.

I'm just praying that Nocturne goes on sale this weekend so I can buy him and his relatively cheap skin. Please refrain from reminding me that he just went on sale in August so I can continue to hold on to my false hope.

But how can you not like Blitzcrank?!?!?one?1 He's so fun to play and that skin is freaking hilarious.

[toasty]

Difference between Tier 3 Dodge and Tier 2.5 Dodge quints, assuming Dodge Seals, Masteries, and Ninja Tabi: 0.28%. Decreases if you're Jax or Sivir.

Difference betweeen Tier 3 Movement Speed and Tier 2.5 Movement Speed quints, assuming between base 300 and 330 movement and boots 2: 1.221 to 1.32 points of movement.

Difference between Tier 3 HP and Tier 2.5 HP runes: 6 hp.

If you're level 20 and want a rune, then these are perfect.

If you're me, have almost all the runes you need, 8 rune pages, most of the champions, then why not wait till you can afford the "real McCoy?"

[Eldariel]

See, the problem is that 95% of viable junglers also do fairly well top. I guess it all just comes down to the enemy comp. So run this comp in normal draft pick?

I've done weirder things. You could also just run like Shen or Jarvan or Cho or something and have 2 Tanky DPS guys, Karthus, Ezreal & Alistar. Alistar is the best jungling support (also able to solo lane though same certainly goes for Janna) and Karthus is a fine soloing AP that also has a good jungle.

Cho, Kart, Ez, Alistar, Lee Sin would be pretty optimal. All of them can sololane, many of those form rather brutal duolane comboes (Karthus with anyone to CC people really, really hurts for instance; Ez/Alistar is obvious, Leelistar is hilarious and Ezkart has like the highest raw damage output of anything in the game).

[Daverin]

When I mentioned that anecdote, it wasn't so much the Skarner, as the everyone else should've been wailing on me (plus, his slightly longer ult timer.) Of course, they were being attacked as well, and there is no why I was being focused by everyone, but I still was now primary target. And I lived. It felt awesome. :smallbiggrin:

[tribble]

Fiddles isn't really that bad in lane, he just has some bad MUs. Ideally, you place him against someone without a stun and watch him walk all over them. He's probably better on top than in mid, actually. Yeah, his pushing isn't the best but Dark Wind does alright. I mean, yeah, I wouldn't want to be Fiddle against Anivia, but I wouldn't want to be a lot of things against Anivia.

Fiddle isn't going to be your first choice for the middle, but I think he's a viable counterpick against certain champions. Know Akali is going to solo top? Let Fiddle solo top against her, laugh at her when her smokescreen does nothing. They have vlad? put fiddle in a lane with him and smirk when he tries to trollpool out of drain.

[ArcanistSupreme]

When I mentioned that anecdote, it wasn't so much the Skarner, as the everyone else should've been wailing on me (plus, his slightly longer ult timer.) Of course, they were being attacked as well, and there is no way I was being focused by everyone, but I still was now primary target. And I lived. It felt awesome. :smallbiggrin:

I'm not saying that you didn't escape/play like a baws, I was just commenting on how lackluster the Skarner ult buff was. I'm actually hoping that he goes FotM just so people figure out how to play him.

[Duos]

I've never bought Riot points....

But I'm about to spend 35 bucks for the champs and their Halloween skins.

Except Blitzcrank. I don't like him or his skin.

Blitzcrank didn't get a halloween skin.

Annie got one, Nidalee got one, Nocturne got one, and I think the last one is a Gragas skin (it is clearly a Gragas skin because it has a nose and facial hair and everybody knows robots don't have noses or facial hair.)

[ex cathedra]

But how many times have you just barely been out of range of a skillshot that would have dealt the killing blow, or escaped with under 18 health? Sure, situations like these are pretty rare, but it's so awesome when they happen that's it's totally worth the extra IP.

Those numbers are not per-rune. Those are for full sets. The values per-rune are those numbers divided by three.

[toasty]

So I realized something today.

If you can run a Carry solo top, and can get Morgana. Morgana+Support lane completely counters aggressive bottom lanes like Taric+Caitlyn.

You solve the problem of needing a mage (who does damage early game through levels) by having 2 mages, you solve the problem of the AD by picking Ezreal or Vayne to solo top. The worst that can happen is a level 2 gank top, and those can be prevented by careful CVs and Wards/Traps early game.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Those numbers are not per-rune. Those are for full sets. The values per-rune are those numbers divided by three.

But...but...but...how many times have you escaped with less than six health? Totally worth the 3000 extra IP. Totally.

[ex cathedra]

If you're level 20 and want a rune, then these are perfect.

If you're me, have almost all the runes you need, 8 rune pages, most of the champions, then why not wait till you can afford the "real McCoy?"

I would buy the Dodge quints if there was a champion on which Dodge Quints were worth using. I might have bought the movespeed quints if I didn't have a set, but none of the others seem worth buying.

Edit:

But...but...but...how many times have you escaped with less than six health? Totally worth the 3000 extra IP. Totally.

... Totally. :smallannoyed:

[ArcanistSupreme]

... Totally. :smallannoyed:

I typed out "worth it" so it's true.

[tribble]

Stinking Riot! You Told Me Graves Passive Was True Grit! I Want My True Grit! It Sounded So Much Cooler And Actually Made Sense!

Also, I see no harrowing runes in the store. Do I have to fill some kind of prerequisite for them or what?

[ex cathedra]

Stinking Riot
You Told Me Graves Passive Was True Grit
I Want My True Grit It Sounded So Much Cooler And Actually Made Sense

You're really bad at Haikus.

[tribble]

You're really bad at Haikus.

It was meant to be an ALLCAPS rant, but the boards filter them.

[Qwertystop]

Also, I see no harrowing runes in the store. Do I have to fill some kind of prerequisite for them or what?
They're listed under Tier 2.

I got a Ghosly Speed Quint, as movespeed is what I generally see recommended for quints unless a champ really need another stat (like Jax with Dodge). My other quint (not level 30 yet) is Avarice, as I find that's a good general-purpose one as well. More gold is good.

[toasty]

I would buy the Dodge quints if there was a champion on which Dodge Quints were worth using. I might have bought the movespeed quints if I didn't have a set, but none of the others seem worth buying.

Dodge Quints are the most effective way to counter Auto-attacking heroes like Vayne, Ashe, Miss Fortune, Udyr, Warick (early game), Gangplank and even Chogath somewhat, in Lane.

I run Dodge runes on the majority of my top solo champions. On a few I run Armor, on a few others I run Mana Regen. I also take Nimbleness and get Ninja Tabi. Its a very efficient form of EHP if the enemy comp allows it.

Dodge runes are amazing. i'm not sure why you're dissing them.


... Totally. :smallannoyed:

Seeing as I've invested something 6% of my life into this game since I started playing it (yes, I did the math. Yes, I am somewhat ashamed of that number) I don't see why saving up a little bit more better runes is a bad idea.

Having said that: yeah, if you aren't like me and don't play this game a lot, then feel free to buy the cheaper ones.

[ex cathedra]

Dodge Quints are the most effective way to counter Auto-attacking heroes like Vayne, Ashe, Miss Fortune, Udyr, Warick (early game), Gangplank and even Chogath somewhat, in Lane.

I run Dodge runes on the majority of my top solo champions. On a few I run Armor, on a few others I run Mana Regen. I also take Nimbleness and get Ninja Tabi. Its a very efficient form of EHP if the enemy comp allows it.

Dodge runes are amazing. i'm not sure why you're dissing them.

Dodge SEALS are amazing. They're one of the single best purchases I've made. I really dislike champions on which I can't/shouldn't run Nimbleness+Dodge seals. They are certainly amazing.

I just don't feel like the quints are nearly as good, or worth their slots.

Out of those champions, dodge doesn't work against: Tumble, Silver Bolts, Tiger Stance, Parrrley!, or Vorpal Spikes (the bonus damage, that is), to my knowledge. Even then, 19% dodge is generally quite an acceptable amount. I'd rather have 4.5% flat movespeed, 8.whatever HP/5, or 7 flat AD than ~4% extra dodge in a lot of cases. The comparison is much worse if they only have a single primarily auto-attack based champion.

[Joran]

Renekton Bot's Renekton Judgement was entertaining, I don't know about any others really.

The Garen fan judgement was also memorable. @_@

[toasty]

Dodge SEALS are amazing. They're one of the single best purchases I've made. I really dislike champions on which I can't/shouldn't run Nimbleness+Dodge seals. They are certainly amazing.

Oh, that's a point, actually. Yeah. I run HP regen Quints for my "never die, AFK farm" top lane heroes.

[LordShotGun]

Not knowing what runes to buy, I got two (Halloween) quintessences of health. Then I find out I need to be level 20 to use both. I'm level 18 right now.

:smallfrown:

[Eldariel]

Blitzcrank didn't get a halloween skin.

Annie got one, Nidalee got one, Nocturne got one, and I think the last one is a Gragas skin (it is clearly a Gragas skin because it has a nose and facial hair and everybody knows robots don't have noses or facial hair.)

Blitz didn't but Totally Not Blitzcrank did.

[Daverin]

Well, it clearly is not Blitzcrank, but whoever it is needs to tuck their tie in! :smallmad: :smalltongue:

EDIT: And Grave's passive is named correctly, it is just misnamed in the client. They promised to fix it.

[tribble]

The Garen fan judgement was also memorable. @_@

I remember reading a Cho'Gath fan judgement that was pretty badass. Cho said he didn't really want to join the league, but he did want to destroy valoran and the league was the best place to work on that. When asked how exposing his mind felt, he asked how it felt for the summoner to expose it. very cool stuff.

[Triscuitable]

Just wondering, should I buy Morgana or Amumu?

[Spartacus]

Holy crap I saw the last post was Triscuitable and I thought it was the Steam thread.

I am terrible at both those champions, and have faced both poor and devastating versions of both. Most people seem to like Morgana.

[Eldariel]

Just wondering, should I buy Morgana or Amumu?

Depends. Do you want a lane dominating, mage-wrecking, teamslapping angel or a monster jungler, team-rooting, stunning mummy? Basically, Morgana is a laning mage while Amumu is a jungling tank. So...pick.

Also, I just officially played my last Gunblade Ezreal game. Farewell, good build. Now I shall truly feel the wrath of Dominion Lifesteal Hate as the last bastion of viability has been destroyed. Only trash remains (seriously, I may start just buying Emblem of Valor and not upgrading it into anything... Or maybe Bilgewater Cutlass as the ability is fairly good).

[Neftren]

Depends. Do you want a lane dominating, mage-wrecking, teamslapping angel or a monster jungler, team-rooting, stunning mummy? Basically, Morgana is a laning mage while Amumu is a jungling tank. So...pick.

Also, I just officially played my last Gunblade Ezreal game. Farewell, good build. Now I shall truly feel the wrath of Dominion Lifesteal Hate as the last bastion of viability has been destroyed. Only trash remains (seriously, I may start just buying Emblem of Valor and not upgrading it into anything... Or maybe Bilgewater Cutlass as the ability is fairly good).

Gunblade on Ezreal doesn't seem horrible right now...? I mean, on Dominion I'm mostly building AP anyways. Were you stacking them or something?

[TechnOkami]

Alright, I really need to try Skarner in an actual game to judge his power.

[Neftren]

Alright, I really need to try Skarner in an actual game to judge his power.

The one game I played today with a Skarner, all he seemed to be good at doing was stealing kills because he attacks so fast. ><


All in all, he seems like a decent pick now, at least if played by a competent player.

[tribble]

Just wondering, should I buy Morgana or Amumu?

Depends. Do you like jungling? You pretty much have to jungle amumu. Can you land a skillshot? Amumu does better if you can land bandage toss but he can get by even if you can't. Morgana kinda requires you to be able to land dark binding.

[Eldariel]

Gunblade on Ezreal doesn't seem horrible right now...? I mean, on Dominion I'm mostly building AP anyways. Were you stacking them or something?

No, I was going mostly AD like always, just using Gunblade as a semi-efficient source of Lifesteal that conveniently has some AP and Spellvamp for WER, and an extra slow for when Phage fails. I always found AP Ezreal a silly gimmick that really doesn't have much over any real AP mostly because I really find it hard to justify playing AP Ez over Kassadin or LeBlanc, for instance. His global ult is the only thing that sets him apart. Both LeB and Kass have similar CDs on their blinks, better overall AP ratios and more useful effects on their spells (Silence and Slow vs. ASpd slow and nothing).

My build is/was Brutalizer > Boots (CDR generally) + Sheen > Cutlass > Triforce > Gunblade. Then I went IE, LW or such depending on what's necessary (occasionally GA, QSS or both). Oh, and finished Ghostblade at some point. You get perfectly normal end-game Ranged AD auto attacks with IE/Gunblade/Triforce/Youmuu's (decent bunch of AD, 260% crits at 50% crit chance and passive + Triforce + Youmuu's active for ASpd) while obviously fueling your ability-based game with CDR/Sheen/Gunblade while at it.

Losing 5% of the lifesteal makes it eminently uninteresting as a lifesteal item; even the ****pile that is Sanguine Blade offers the same. And losing 20 of the AD makes it awfully uninteresting in that point; a silly BFS has more. I really just wanna get 2 Vampiric Scepters in inventory at that point but that's not awfully slot efficient, forces me to get a BFS item after them to get damage (since I don't have Gunblade anymore) and then I'm stuck with no free slots for defensive items should I happen to need them.

[TechnOkami]

The one game I played today with a Skarner, all he seemed to be good at doing was stealing kills because he attacks so fast. ><


All in all, he seems like a decent pick now, at least if played by a competent player.

Do you remember how he built him?

[ex cathedra]

I'm watching this (http://www.own3d.tv/video/241430/Saint_RageQuit_Vicious_5v5_Inhouse) weird TSM+Dignitas vs CLG+v8+Crs scrim that Chaox recorded.

Lol @ Voyboy firstblooding Hotshot at 3 minutes without a gank, and killing him at 3:56 with a Jatt gank.

[Daverin]

That game too troll.

[Draken]

I went mid as Skarner today (uh... long story), vs a Malzahar. A rather interesting experience.

Now that his E heals on last hits, it is much, much better for laning, and it is also cheap, which gives him plenty of early sustain. I went gunblade and then started building a trinity force, but we won the game shortly after I got the last piece of trinity (the zeal).

His damage is nice, has always been, and now that he runs out of mana less easily it is just feels that much better. I think he is in a good place now.

[Eldariel]

I got an inexplicable urge to build Nidalee tanky AP with enough ArPen to still use Takedown and Lichbane efficiently. Any ideas for improvement on this (http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Nidalee/?items=88,18,94,76,125,70&runes=36,36,36,36,36,36,36,36,36,32,32,32,32,32,32 ,32,32,32,16,16,16,16,16,16,16,16,16,62,62,8&masteries=1003400100000000000000000000031040032031 301&level=18)?

[dgnslyr]

Is it really tanky AP if the only difference I see between this and a more typical squishy Nidalee is the Frozen Heart?

That said, I don't play much Dominion, so I'm not an expert on Dominion-centric builds, and all I know about playing Nidalee is that her core items are Lichbane and then more AP. Transforming into cougar-mode does give her a bit of defenses, so I guess she has a bit more room for AP items?

[Neftren]

No, I was going mostly AD like always, just using Gunblade as a semi-efficient source of Lifesteal that conveniently has some AP and Spellvamp for WER, and an extra slow for when Phage fails. I always found AP Ezreal a silly gimmick that really doesn't have much over any real AP mostly because I really find it hard to justify playing AP Ez over Kassadin or LeBlanc, for instance. His global ult is the only thing that sets him apart. Both LeB and Kass have similar CDs on their blinks, better overall AP ratios and more useful effects on their spells (Silence and Slow vs. ASpd slow and nothing).

My build is/was Brutalizer > Boots (CDR generally) + Sheen > Cutlass > Triforce > Gunblade. Then I went IE, LW or such depending on what's necessary (occasionally GA, QSS or both). Oh, and finished Ghostblade at some point. You get perfectly normal end-game Ranged AD auto attacks with IE/Gunblade/Triforce/Youmuu's (decent bunch of AD, 260% crits at 50% crit chance and passive + Triforce + Youmuu's active for ASpd) while obviously fueling your ability-based game with CDR/Sheen/Gunblade while at it.

Losing 5% of the lifesteal makes it eminently uninteresting as a lifesteal item; even the ****pile that is Sanguine Blade offers the same. And losing 20 of the AD makes it awfully uninteresting in that point; a silly BFS has more. I really just wanna get 2 Vampiric Scepters in inventory at that point but that's not awfully slot efficient, forces me to get a BFS item after them to get damage (since I don't have Gunblade anymore) and then I'm stuck with no free slots for defensive items should I happen to need them.

Ah, yeah I see where you're coming from. I've been going Gunblade, Some AP Item, Lichbane, Morellos, though games seldom get beyond that point since Dominion games are so short.


Do you remember how he built him?

Not off the top of my head, but I've got the replay. Send me a note on Mumble and I'll go check it sometime.

[Eldariel]

Is it really tanky AP if the only difference I see between this and a more typical squishy Nidalee is the Frozen Heart?

That said, I don't play much Dominion, so I'm not an expert on Dominion-centric builds, and all I know about playing Nidalee is that her core items are Lichbane and then more AP. Transforming into cougar-mode does give her a bit of defenses, so I guess she has a bit more room for AP items?

I dunno. I can't test it right now 'cause EU is down and I lack the necessary resources on NA but my goal was getting tanky (really just as high effective HP as possible) with 40% CDR (since the whole purpose of getting tanky is to be able to Cougar it up and get in there to actually fight; Cougar abilities need full CDR to be any good in a prolonged fight) & with enough damage to actually hurt while in there.

HP is about 500 less than I'd want, MR is a tad lower than I'm comfortable with (tho Odyn's passive helps I guess) and I'd want some more ArPen but this was the best compromise I could come up with, especially since "getting damage" alone takes 3 items (I can't think of any combo other than Lichbane/Deathcap/Voidstaff to achieve "sufficient damage"). I also played with the idea of going 21/9/0 or 21/0/9 but that 6% CDR and 3% Move Speed is actually pretty major.

[toasty]

I've seen people build like Sunfire+GA on Nidalee. Dunno how it works, but it seems with the changes to cougar, tanky/ap is the way to go in Solo Queue. Hotshot still makes full AP poke work, but he's really, really good at Nidalee and it requires that the team be built around it (so Kennen+Nidalee+Trundle, say).

[dgnslyr]

Well, I guess you could build an Abyssal Scepter instead of the Void Staff, since you need more tanky and less AP. It gives a delicious Mres lowering aura, which you can put to good use, as well as making you beefier. Besides, it's not like anybody builds defense in Dominion anyways. :smallwink:

I guess you could work a Shurelia's in there somewhere, for the CDR, hp, and delicious, delicious active. 20% Frozen Heart, 15 % Shurelia's and 6% from Utility masteries is enough to hit the cap.

Maybe Hourglass instead of Deathcap if you feel like you're getting bursted too fast or beat around by AD too hard?

[balistafreak]

Holy crap, Graves's Smokescreen is freaking awesome.

Drop it in front of a chokepoint; a jungle entrance, a corner, on the near side of a bush towards the enemy, a river ramp. Shooting a Smokescreen before going through such a chokepoint means denying vision of the upper area until they pass all the way through the chokepoint to chase.

If you have any MIAs whatsoever, the enemy will refuse to chase. As Graves, I successfully kited the enemy team through the jungle while my team did Baron, using wards for vision, Smokescreen to put the fear of initiation in them, Quick Draw to hop over walls, and a final Flash to juke a Dark Binding.

Twenty some seconds later, I drop a Smokescreen in front of the Baron ramp while running across it. Wards spot them finally manning up, balling up, and running through it together -

- straight into my Baron-buffed team, artfully arranged to not be visible from the top of the ramp. They would have been visible from the bottom of the ramp, but anyone inside there was in a Smokescreen, and derping hard.

Murdered. Push to win, cue raging of "wtf their entire team was there".

[Dogmantra]

Gunblade on Ezreal doesn't seem horrible right now...? I mean, on Dominion I'm mostly building AP anyways. Were you stacking them or something?
Gunblade Mode is totally ruined, but his autoattacks were ALWAYS a huge part of his damage output because of his great passive. Losing 20 damage per hit is pretty awful.


Losing 5% of the lifesteal makes it eminently uninteresting as a lifesteal item; even the ****pile that is Sanguine Blade offers the same.

I'm not really a fan of Bloodthirster, I don't like farming it up then losing all the stacks, which is actually a big reason I got so into Gunblades, it's like a more slot efficient unstacked Bloodthirster, and that's just looking at the AD side. I guess it's Stark's or be lame and build Bloodthirsters now...

also, I wonder how Graves's Smoke Bomb works with wards.

[Eldariel]

I'm not really a fan of Bloodthirster, I don't like farming it up then losing all the stacks, which is actually a big reason I got so into Gunblades, it's like a more slot efficient unstacked Bloodthirster, and that's just looking at the AD side. I guess it's Stark's or be lame and build Bloodthirsters now...

It's even worse on Dominion. I'm pretty good at not dying when need be so I can keep my BT charges in endgames with ranged carries where I have all the equipment I want rather consistently (since my only job is being there and staying alive; not all that difficult provided the team isn't entirely useless) but Sanguine Blade doesn't have any built-in method to make it worth it.

So on Dominion, now you get to choose out of:
Sanguine Blade
Stark's Fervor
Executioner's Calling

This is almost enough to make me stop playing Ezreal on Dominion entirely... Stark's is trivially awful on him, Calling does nothing, Sanguine Blade is just bad. Hell, I'm almost interested in just building Emblem of Valor but it's such a horribly inefficient item gold-wise (1.4 times the lifesteal for 1.8 times the cost of a basic item!) that I really am not too crazy about that option either. And Bilgewater Cutlass alone is horribly expensive without too much Lifesteal, a short range active and a mediocre amount of AD. *sigh*

On SR I've always, and will always build Bloodthirsters. 25% Lifesteal <3

[Nargan]

So, owing to a bad connection, I can only play at certain times of day when other people aren't on their computers, owing to a 2 ragequits on my match history. :smallannoyed:

On the plus side, I got LoL replay working and this (http://www.mediafire.com/?4pnv9ls9bje7e5f) is a damn nice curbstomp I wanted to share, because I'm vain like that. Enemy was AWFUL, especially morgana, but I don't want to do ranked LoL and get sucked back into that, so it's the best I can hope for without queing with Elealar and Adumbration. It's always fun to pwn though :smallbiggrin:

Oh, and it helps if you're listening to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERmmlotzbN0&feature=related) while watching, so you get into the trundle mindset O.o

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Oh, and it helps if you're listening to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERmmlotzbN0&feature=related) while watching, so you get into the trundle mindset O.o

Fun fact: I often listen to pony-related remixes while playing. I find it very hard to get mad at my team mates while listening to that sort of track. I also listen to a lot of Funk and funky Disco for the same reason.

Anyone else do this sort of thing?

[Nargan]

Fun fact: I often listen to pony-related remixes while playing. I find it very hard to get mad at my team mates while listening to that sort of track. I also listen to a lot of Funk and funky Disco for the same reason.

Anyone else do this sort of thing?

Well, as already proven, I do it a lot. Like the grand galloping gala 20% cooler remix. God I love that.

[Daverin]

I'm not really a fan of Bloodthirster, I don't like farming it up then losing all the stacks, which is actually a big reason I got so into Gunblades, it's like a more slot efficient unstacked Bloodthirster, and that's just looking at the AD side. I guess it's Stark's or be lame and build Bloodthirsters now...

also, I wonder how Graves's Smoke Bomb works with wards.

To be fair, Stark's can often be better dps than BT for autoattacks, unless you have last whisper I'd imagine. Also, how do you mean with the smoke bombs? If you mean wards outside the smoke, no dice, you still have no sight.

[Dogmantra]

You're right about Stark's, but considering Ez is my favourite AD carry with my second favourite being Vayne, who I would build Bloodthirster for lifesteal on anyway with... pitifully few other AD carries seeing play by me (I've been playing Graves a lot, I very rarely play Ashe, Caitlyn and Miss Fortune) it's just a bit of a shame :(

And no, I meant I wonder what happens if you chuck a smoke bomb onto a ward, does it get its sight radius reduced?

[Daverin]

You're right about Stark's, but considering Ez is my favourite AD carry with my second favourite being Vayne, who I would build Bloodthirster for lifesteal on anyway with... pitifully few other AD carries seeing play by me (I've been playing Graves a lot, I very rarely play Ashe, Caitlyn and Miss Fortune) it's just a bit of a shame :(

And no, I meant I wonder what happens if you chuck a smoke bomb onto a ward, does it get its sight radius reduced?

Yeah, it still is massive BS. Especially that they picked the AD portion to hit so hard, of all things! I was actually using that as a cool 6th item with a few champs.

And oooh, that's a good question. Would be interesting if that were the case, to see if you could screw with them at all with brief vision loss like that.

Also, occasionally, the reds are really funny. Like in this (http://clgaming.net/redtracker/topic/17887/?p=1) thread (using redtracker, btw.) Also, for anyone who knows about the silly Iron Solari thing going on in the forums... they have their own website. I lol'ed.

[Adumbration]

Am I doing something wrong when my AP jungle Shaco is more solid than my AD jungle Shaco?

[Dienekes]

I have sort of a basic balance question to those infinitely smarter than me.

Armor and Magic Resistance both use the same mathematical equation to determine their usefulness. Also, we know how 100 in either means essentially double the effective hp in either.

So why are their two armor items that double effective health (essentially, Frozen Heart is only 99) but no magic resit items that offer the same benefit. Force of Nature is the highest, but after that nothing is above the 50s?

[tribble]

So, I've been playing more and more carries, because I started to get bored with not being able to do significant damage, and I realised I have no idea how to build a carry. I don't really understand when to build damage versus building attack speed, I don't really know how to properly utilize crit, there are tons of fancy offensive items for my carrying pleasure but I don't know which ones are actually good, I'm kind of lost. Does anyone want to help me out and give me, like, a "general" item list that should allow me to deal good damage with most carries?

[Eldariel]

Watching Chauster own solo queue while playing absolutely awful is kinda saddening and awfully entertaining at the same time.


So, I've been playing more and more carries, because I started to get bored with not being able to do significant damage, and I realised I have no idea how to build a carry. I don't really understand when to build damage versus building attack speed, I don't really know how to properly utilize crit, there are tons of fancy offensive items for my carrying pleasure but I don't know which ones are actually good, I'm kind of lost. Does anyone want to help me out and give me, like, a "general" item list that should allow me to deal good damage with most carries?

Sorry to say, but depends on the carry. :smallwink: You'll have to be a tad more precise. IE, Trinity & Bloodthirster are the big 3 damage items so you'll want at least one of those. But what kind of a composition you want really depends. I can go more in-depth when I have more time, but in the meanwhile you can help us give you precision advice by being more specific.

EDIT: I guess corner cases exist where you use Bloodrazor instead so I'll mention it in addition to IE, Trinity & BT for completeness's sake. And I somehow forgot Black Cleaver. So those 5.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Disclaimer: I suck at playing all carries except gunblade-stacking Ezreal (Requiescat In Pace) so what the <bleep> do I know anyway? But I'll say parrot away some things I heard once from someone who may have known what they were talking about.

For most carries there's only a handful of offensive items worth the money.

-Infinity Edge
-Bloodthirster
-Last Whisper
-Phantom Dancer

The first three you build pretty much always. Dancers you build if you're doing fairly well and don't need some sort of defensive item to not get exploded by an assassin.

Other items to consider:

Black Cleaver: for when the enemy team is stupid isn't bothering to build armour
Wriggles: for when you need lane sustain and better farming. Most carries farm real well so don't need this in the slightest. Just mentioning on account of some very good Vaynes I've seen rocking this item.

[ex cathedra]

So, I've been playing more and more carries, because I started to get bored with not being able to do significant damage, and I realised I have no idea how to build a carry. I don't really understand when to build damage versus building attack speed, I don't really know how to properly utilize crit, there are tons of fancy offensive items for my carrying pleasure but I don't know which ones are actually good, I'm kind of lost. Does anyone want to help me out and give me, like, a "general" item list that should allow me to deal good damage with most carries?

Start Dorans Blade. Build Doran's Blade. If necessary, build another Doran's Blade.

Build Boots 1. Build BF Sword. Build Infinity Edge OR Bloodthirster (depends on your farm, your champion, your enemies, and how the game is going). Finish Zerkers at some point. Build Zeal. Eventually pick up Phantom Dancer, another BF sword item, and Last Whisper.

Kog'maw might want a Bloodrazor. Ezreal wants CDR boots. Ezreal and Corki might want a Triforce. Corki and Vayne might want a Black Cleaver.

Building damage, and then building more damage increases your total DPS additively. Building damage, and then building crit/attack speed/armor pen increases your damage multiplicatively. Generally, your core damage is Infinity Edge + Phantom dancer + Zerkers for attack speed, crit damage, and crit chance. After that, your Bloodthirster provides a large chunk of additional AD along with excellent sustain, which should allow you to sustain through most teamfights assuming that your team is well coordinated.

Champions have base armor per level, and a great deal of them buy additional sources of armor. Generally, that means that most non-squishy champions will end the game at over 100 armor, and even some of the squishier mages/carries still have about 80. That sort of armor value roughly halves your damage output, and so Last Whisper is almost always an excellent fifth or sixth item.

@Even Human: Regarding Wriggles, it gives a lot of dragon control while making you much tankier versus other AD champions. If you're against a bad range matchup, say Vayne/Graves vs Caitlyn/Kog'Maw/Ezreal, Wriggles can give you the sustain and eHP that you need to survive the lane.

[Eldariel]

Kog'maw might want a Bloodrazor. Ezreal and Corki might want a Triforce.

Don't forget Black Cleaver as the first item. It's a viable opening item on many; most common users probably being Vayne & Corki tho.

[ex cathedra]

Don't forget Black Cleaver as the first item. It's a viable opening item on many; most common users probably being Vayne & Corki tho.

Yeah, it's actually quite good on both of them. Considering her steroids, Vayne actually gets quite a lot of out it compared to other BF sword items for BC's price.

[Winterwind]

I have sort of a basic balance question to those infinitely smarter than me.

Armor and Magic Resistance both use the same mathematical equation to determine their usefulness. Also, we know how 100 in either means essentially double the effective hp in either.

So why are their two armor items that double effective health (essentially, Frozen Heart is only 99) but no magic resit items that offer the same benefit. Force of Nature is the highest, but after that nothing is above the 50s?I'd assume it's because while most spells don't scale with a 1.0 ratio with AP, every champion has at least one thing that scales with a 1.0 AD ratio, namely their auto-attack. Which also happens to be on a much shorter cooldown than all spells.


So, I've been playing more and more carries, because I started to get bored with not being able to do significant damage, and I realised I have no idea how to build a carry. I don't really understand when to build damage versus building attack speed, I don't really know how to properly utilize crit, there are tons of fancy offensive items for my carrying pleasure but I don't know which ones are actually good, I'm kind of lost. Does anyone want to help me out and give me, like, a "general" item list that should allow me to deal good damage with most carries?Essentially, you have to remember that attack damage, attack speed and crits all scale multiplicatively with each other - when you have a lot of attack damage, increasing attack damage by a bit will net you less of a damage-per-second increase than increasing attack speed by a bit would; if you have a lot of attack speed, you prefer to increase your attack damage, and so on.

I'm not sure I should be talking - I mean, I only have about 600 games played total so far, none of them ranked - but I'd say Infinity Edge->Phantom Dancer->Bloodthirster->Black Cleaver is just about optimal on most regular AD carries (with defensive items as needed in between, which means it's quite possible you can't get all four), as far as the progression of damage items goes. Or at least, it's not completely off on pretty much all of them.

I usually go Doran's Blade -> Boots (Berserker's or Mercury's, depending on the enemy team) -> Infinity Edge, with a Vampiric Sceptre somewhere in between while building it, for lane sustain -> Phantom Dancer -> Banshee's Veil -> Bloodthirster -> Black Cleaver or another defensive item, on more classic AD carries like Ashe or Caitlyn (with increasingly different builds the more atypical a carry it is).

EDIT: Ooof, Kinkou'd so hard. :smallbiggrin:



@Daverin: You wrote in the previous thread that you sent me a friend-request on EU-W, but I never received any. :smallconfused:

[Daverin]

Really? Just to be sure, you did not accept Arcalius? If so, I'll throw you another one. And start hopping on from time to time, I still have no idea when you guys would play, my time.

[ex cathedra]

Essentially, you have to remember that attack damage, attack speed and crits all scale multiplicatively with each other - when you have a lot of attack damage, increasing attack damage by a bit will net you less of a damage-per-second increase than increasing attack speed by a bit would; if you have a lot of attack speed, you prefer to increase your attack damage, and so on.

Yes, exactly this. Also, you should keep the following in mind: this means, for champions with strong steroids, building a stat that you already possess is suboptimal. Thus, Graves (80% steroid), Tristana (90% steroid), and Ezreal (50% steroid, reliance on CDR) benefit less from attack speed than Vayne (Silver bolts scales only with attack speed, 55 AD steroid).

[Eldariel]

Ok, fine, since everyone is posting guides let's make a simple one:
- Get the Brutalizer if you're based on abilities (Urgot & Ezreal)
- Get Big Item™
- Get ASpd and Crit Chance (PD, Trinity, Black Cleaver)
- Get defense as necessary (Banshee's, GA, QSS)
- Get Greaves or whichever boots make sense against enemy team (Mercs vs. magical assassins, perhaps Tabi against physicals, some Urgot might want CDR Boots instead if not needing tanky boots)
- Get second or third big item or Last Whisper or some such as the game demands. I often have both BT & IE on champs like Cait or Ashe 'cause lifesteal & 1k crits are both good.

[Daverin]

Trinity Force on Graves? Thoughts? I know Djinn likes it, I've seen a couple of others do and, and arguments can be made in favor of E's effective CD for it. It would give a little over 100 AD at 18 with sheen proc, and of course Trinity is nice in other ways.

[ex cathedra]

It's okay. It contributes well to his burst, which is alright, but my only issue with it is that you're paying a lot of gold for a phantom dancer replacement that doesn't give you a lot of crit.

Though, I don't recall Djinn's full build off hand so it's hard for me to make a fair assessment. Triforce Graves is probably fine, but in all likelihood Djinn succeeded with it because he's Djinn.

[Daverin]

It's okay. It contributes well to his burst, which is alright, but my only issue with it is that you're paying a lot of gold for a phantom dancer replacement that doesn't give you a lot of crit.

Though, I don't recall Djinn's full build off hand so it's hard for me to make a fair assessment. Triforce Graves is probably fine, but in all likelihood Djinn succeeded with it because he's Djinn.

Yeah, I am always aware of that. Djinn builds as he pleases.

And you are right about the crit, which is my biggest trepidation. Honestly, it feels like crit needs another package sometimes (which probably isn't really the case, but the fact that you basically buy one item for both of the AD multipliers seems... convenient yet odd.) That said, although I find zeal at minimum to be what ties together his E buff in terms of attacks needed to keep it up, I do wonder if PD is overkill on that end.

I probably will just give it a spin sometime. And after that I'll troll with tanky ad build. :smalltongue:

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Though, I don't recall Djinn's full build off hand so it's hard for me to make a fair assessment.

It involves selling my boots, but I farm like a boss with Graves...

Bloodthirster + Zerker's, Phantom Dancer, Infinity Edge, Trinity Force, Madred's Bloodrazor, sell boots for Phantom Dancer

With the attack speed that grants, you can have E basically up forever...and with your E and your Q's max cooldown (and the occasional Ult or Smokescreen), you can get a Tri-Force proc every 2 seconds.


Triforce Graves is probably fine, but in all likelihood Djinn succeeded with it because he's Djinn.


Yeah, I am always aware of that. Djinn builds as he pleases.

Heh. I actually tried to write up a build guide for a bunch of carries to answer the question on the last page, but halfway through I realized that most of my carry builds are actually really dumb on some level (usually just having no defenses at all). :smalltongue:

[Daverin]

Sometimes I wonder about just skipping the boots and going straight into a PD after Trinity Force >.> (Yes I know it is a bad idea, please make no comment on it.)

At any rate, I really need to get matched up against a Cait in lane as Graves, so I can become disillusioned about him and stop playing AD carries again. As it stands, Graves feels like a pretty good laner, at least against the people I have fought.

[Winterwind]

So... just looking at Graves' abilities. An 80% attack steroid that can stay active 100% of the time, a slow, a passive that gives up to 40 additional armour and magic resistance, an ability that punished people from going into close combat with him, with a range that is fully normal for any AD carry and better base stats than most of them.

What am I missing? How is he not strictly better than every other AD carry that is currently in the game by a wide margin? I assume I am missing something, as Riot's been pretty good about nor releasing overpowered champions lately and there isn't nearly as much whining on the official forums as I would expect if he truly was OP... but what is it? :smallconfused:

[Dogmantra]

I have sort of a basic balance question to those infinitely smarter than me.

Armor and Magic Resistance both use the same mathematical equation to determine their usefulness. Also, we know how 100 in either means essentially double the effective hp in either.

So why are their two armor items that double effective health (essentially, Frozen Heart is only 99) but no magic resit items that offer the same benefit. Force of Nature is the highest, but after that nothing is above the 50s?

It's been touched on, but this is also to do with burst vs sustain. Physical damage has less burst but much much more sustain than magic damage. After most* mages have blown their load as it were, they can't do anything, whereas AD carries and tanky DPS can keep autoattacking 'til the cows come home and not drop off in damage output. Because of the reliance on cooldowns, MR costs more because shutting down a mage's burst makes them never kill you whereas shutting down a physcarry's damage makes them just take longer to kill you. Also, ways of bypassing armour are much more readily available than the other way around. Armour pen runes give a bigger benefit, Brutaliser actually builds into something with late game relevance and there's a whole host of ways to add magic damage which scales with carry stats (i.e. Bloodrazor, Wit's End, SotD, Malady) but only one way to add physical damage which scales with mage stats (Lich Bane, which doesn't even add sustained damage).

*interestingly, this is partly why Rumble, Vlad, Karthus, Morde and other more sustained damage mages have had their heyday as being way OP because sustained magic damage is harder to itemise against, and it's quite a bit what makes Pantheon so hard to balance, since he's pretty much the only physical burst caster, it's hard to balance his numbers so he still deals mage level burst against targets with similar costing armour, but doesn't deal too much damage against targets without. It's why I suggested a %armour shred on Heartseeker as part of a rework.


What am I missing? How is he not strictly better than every other AD carry that is currently in the game by a wide margin? I assume I am missing something, as Riot's been pretty good about nor releasing overpowered champions lately and there isn't nearly as much whining on the official forums as I would expect if he truly was OP... but what is it? :smallconfused:

Pretty short range, an underwhelming ultimate and he has to use his escape aggressively leaving him vulnerable if he wants to do his maximum damage output. He's solid and his Smoke Bomb can be devastating, but he's not OP at all.

[tribble]

So I should build damage first, then attackspeed and crit?

[Daverin]

Most of it is a matter of not being as powerful as it sounds. The passive is bad against burst assassins (surprise), since it takes a whole 10 seconds to wind up, before which they should be leaping. He has only 1 cc through his smokescreen, both the slow and the vision reduction. He has only 1 steroid, which actually sometimes can't be relied on for that because you may want to calculate the need to keep it up; at lower levels, it is not as guaranteed to be up 100% of the time. Now, compare that to, say, Vayne. Look at her Q, her W, and her E. ALL of them will ultimately boost her autoattacks, although primarily through burst. She also has burst through her E as well as potential hard cc. Her escape is actually up more often if she is fighting (you would need to stack more AS than necessary to get Grave's up as fast as hers, it is just the steroid portion can be up100% of the time,) and she has better chasing mobility, which I have found to be a problem for Graves sometimes.

Right now, Graves is awesome because he brings good marks in multiple fields, but he is not the end-all-be-all of carries by any means, and certainly is not the best pick in all situations. Vayne ultimately hurts much more, Cait will still lane better, and Ashe still has far more utility. What Graves does is kind of the same thing as MF, which is bring good AoE burst, but in a less high-risk package, thanks to his passive, E and escape, and the fact his burst is fire and forget. He also is an excellent farmer, so there is that. I say Graves is best described as a burst/carry hybrid with some secondary survivability that the other carries lack.

At least, initial impressions. But I am highly suspicious of him being called OP at this point.

[Math_Mage]

I have sort of a basic balance question to those infinitely smarter than me.

Armor and Magic Resistance both use the same mathematical equation to determine their usefulness. Also, we know how 100 in either means essentially double the effective hp in either.

So why are their two armor items that double effective health (essentially, Frozen Heart is only 99) but no magic resit items that offer the same benefit. Force of Nature is the highest, but after that nothing is above the 50s?

Because most things are physical damage in general. Everyone has an autoattack, everything on the map deals physical damage, and nowadays there are AD-scaling abilities all over the place too.


So, I've been playing more and more carries, because I started to get bored with not being able to do significant damage, and I realised I have no idea how to build a carry. I don't really understand when to build damage versus building attack speed, I don't really know how to properly utilize crit, there are tons of fancy offensive items for my carrying pleasure but I don't know which ones are actually good, I'm kind of lost. Does anyone want to help me out and give me, like, a "general" item list that should allow me to deal good damage with most carries?

IE+PD+red/green pots always a good recipe for success.


So... just looking at Graves' abilities. An 80% attack steroid that can stay active 100% of the time, a slow, a passive that gives up to 40 additional armour and magic resistance, an ability that punished people from going into close combat with him, with a range that is fully normal for any AD carry and better base stats than most of them.

What am I missing? How is he not strictly better than every other AD carry that is currently in the game by a wide margin? I assume I am missing something, as Riot's been pretty good about nor releasing overpowered champions lately and there isn't nearly as much whining on the official forums as I would expect if he truly was OP... but what is it? :smallconfused:

Graves pretty much outclasses MF. He has her laning with better scaling. But his short range means trouble against Trist, Kog, and Cait; and Vayne outfights him most ways.

[Dogmantra]

Oh, to expand on Graves's passive, it's actually pretty awful compared to many others.

Using Chain Vest and Negatron Cloak as my examples, armour costs about 15.55 gold per point, with Magic resist at around 15.42 gold per point (Negatron Cloak's actually the most cost efficient way of getting flat MR, interestingly, though FoN and BVeil give better defense against magic damage)

Using these numbers, at level 18 with full stacks, Graves's passive is worth a pitiful 1238 gold.

Looking at other similar passives which take a while to going, Karma's passive gives her 140 AP when she's at extremely low health. Using Needlessly Large Rod for price, that's giving her 2800 gold's worth of AP though admittedly, she won't often be using the AP at that sort of level, so say she gets low enough to be getting 100 AP, that's still 2000 gold. And Karma's considered bad.

What about other characters with passives that give them a quantifiable amount of gold, like people with X to Ys or Olaf, or probably a bunch of other people I'm forgetting? Most of them have passives that are worth more gold.

Also don't forget that he has to stack it up. Oftentimes he'll be getting maybe six, seven hundred gold from it.

[balistafreak]

Using these numbers, at level 18 with full stacks, Graves's passive is worth a pitiful 1238 gold.

The thing about Graves is that it's a "seventh item" - a token amount of defense you don't have to pay for, when you REALLY want to be focusing damage.

It is noticeable - you are tankier than say Caitlyn or Vayne. You can not instantly die in the AoE initiation, and then lifesteal back up with your Bloodthirster for the next skirmish instead of having to wait to respawn. Or maybe take a couple extra seconds of damage from a tanky-dps jumping on you after the teamfight hits. But you'll still die like a ranged carry in the end.

[Daverin]

The thing about Graves is that it's a "seventh item" - a token amount of defense you don't have to pay for, when you REALLY want to be focusing damage.

It is noticeable - you are tankier than say Caitlyn or Vayne. You can not instantly die in the AoE initiation, and then lifesteal back up with your Bloodthirster for the next skirmish instead of having to wait to respawn. Or maybe take a couple extra seconds of damage from a tanky-dps jumping on you after the teamfight hits. But you'll still die like a ranged carry in the end.

Actually, it is the tanky-dps on your face Graves can handle better. The initiation is full blast, because it is all at once at, by definition, the start. Again, the full passive takes 10 seconds to ramp up. Depending on what level teamfights start, the intermittent levels aren't too potent either, and no level does any good at just 2 stacks, which is probably the most that you can get after all the aoe initiation is done (unless they botch, but then they have more problems to worry about then you having the passive bonus needed to tough it out.)

Also, I just tried something funny in practice, and admittedly have no clue how it would work in a real game, but... Lucidity boots on Graves. Makes his Q up that much quicker, his R that much more available, and it does a decent change on his E, making it that much quicker to pump it back up, both by leaving less to shoot back to up, or giving a bit less time in the chance of you being interrupted in trying to get it back up (which also is mildly useful as far as its role as his escape goes.) This means that you have less aspd when it is active, though, and admittedly when you are in the groove there is no real need for lower CD on it... but, I feel that they are some nice "safety net" benefits that also benefit your other abilities. I also think he'd like it if/when they come out with the heavier AD item off of brutalizer.

[toasty]

It's been touched on, but this is also to do with burst vs sustain. Physical damage has less burst but much much more sustain than magic damage. After most* mages have blown their load as it were, they can't do anything, whereas AD carries and tanky DPS can keep autoattacking 'til the cows come home and not drop off in damage output. Because of the reliance on cooldowns, MR costs more because shutting down a mage's burst makes them never kill you whereas shutting down a physcarry's damage makes them just take longer to kill you. Also, ways of bypassing armour are much more readily available than the other way around. Armour pen runes give a bigger benefit, Brutaliser actually builds into something with late game relevance and there's a whole host of ways to add magic damage which scales with carry stats (i.e. Bloodrazor, Wit's End, SotD, Malady) but only one way to add physical damage which scales with mage stats (Lich Bane, which doesn't even add sustained damage).

*interestingly, this is partly why Rumble, Vlad, Karthus, Morde and other more sustained damage mages have had their heyday as being way OP because sustained magic damage is harder to itemise against, and it's quite a bit what makes Pantheon so hard to balance, since he's pretty much the only physical burst caster, it's hard to balance his numbers so he still deals mage level burst against targets with similar costing armour, but doesn't deal too much damage against targets without. It's why I suggested a %armour shred on Heartseeker as part of a rework.

Last I checked, Talon and Garen also scale very well with AD. Garen more so because he scales with Crits. Though his Judgements is more sustained damage than, say, Annie Burst combo, its certaintly not as sustained as Ashe or Vayne auto-attacks.

Talon might have the same problem as old-pantheon. he has incredible burst, its hard to itemize against (Sunfire+GA? Maybe Aegis? Thornmail, Randouins all are better to use against Auto-Attackers. Atmogs is good, but that's ALWAYS good on Tankydps).

Also: Last time I checked, Rumble is still amazing. Karthus is incredibly strong right now, go ask PhantomLord, Alathor, xPeke, Misaya, and a host of other AP players. I'm really at a lose as to why TSM, CLG, and Epik haven't picked up Karthus the way their European and Chinese counterparts have. Karthus is a beast in any lineup. Especially because Talon and Vayne are very bursty and you can get initation through heroes like Warwick, Chogath, Alistair, Sona. Amumu, Singed are also great, though they have problems. Nocturne can kinda work, but you'd probably need an Ashe or strong Solo lane tank to also initiate.

[Laudandus]

AD carry builds are a little more complex than just a single build order. Basically there are several items and paths you want to consider:

You start cloth 5 pot, boots 3 pot, or doran's blade. I start doran's blade almost every game, but I can see an argument for cloth if you're worried and boots are generally good.

The first decision you make is after your first B. If you have enough gold for a BF sword, generally you should just buy one. If not, then if you are very confident in lane buy another doran's blade. If you think you have any chance of losing lane, though, buy a wriggle's lantern - it is a ridiculously overpowered laning item. The pieces of it are all incredibly good vs another AD carry. However, if either tower has died, don't buy wriggle's. At that point you usually don't have to worry about your opponent as a farm obstacle.

If you got wriggle's, you are now building infinity edge. The two exceptions are vayne and kog, vayne usually wants black cleaver for attack speed with W and kog sometimes wants wit's end or madred's. If you didn't get infinity edge, bloodthirster is a laning snowball item. If you are losing do not get bloodthirster, get IE. Infinity edge adds more damage than bloodthirster, bloodthirster is mostly useful for the lane dominance.

After this buy a zeal, and upgrade to berserker's greaves if you haven't already. After zeal you go down one of several paths:
1) If you're getting CC'ed or dying to magic, by Quicksilver sash.
2) If 2 or more enemies have armor items, buy last whisper. It is better than other damage items.
3) If you have no lifesteal, a single vamp scepter is very, very good.
4) If none of these apply, finish phantom dancer.

Other items are very, very situational - madred's if everyone is building warmog's and atma's and has no magic resist, banshee's veil vs very fed akali/kassadin, maybe wit's end under some circumstance?

If you have IE/phantom dancer and don't need any other items, build another phantom dancer. If you have bloodthirster/phantom dancer and don't need any other items, buy an infinity edge.

A few carries have certain other rules:
1) Trist should not build bloodthirster or wriggle's, ever, because her midgame is terrible. She is good in lane but needs IE as fast as possible after that.
2) Ashe should not get bloodthirster for the same reason, but her laning is bad enough that sometimes she just desperately needs wriggle's.
3) Vayne prioritizes attack speed. Black cleaver is my first item on her. She also has fairly bad range, so I like banshee's veil more than I otherwise would.
4) Kog'maw can either build as above, or he can go wit's end -> madred's bloodrazor -> frozen mallet. This build gives him armor and magic resist in addition to health, making him a bulky artillery of doom. It's good if your team has a lot of physical and little magic damage.
5) Urgot, Twitch, and Sivir all build completely differently from this.
6) Corki and Ezreal can get trinity force, though I think sheen -> bloodthirster -> trinity force is better than rushing the trinity. If you're losing lane still get infinity edge.

Wow, I wrote a lot

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

1) Trist should not build bloodthirster or wriggle's, ever, because her midgame is terrible. She is good in lane but needs IE as fast as possible after that.

...Beg pardon? I swear by Bloodthirster on Trist, always before IE, and Wriggle's is actually rather good on her.

[Laudandus]

It's good in lane, because lifesteal is really good. The problem is after laning phase - if you got fed, there are no problems, because you're fed so whatever. But if you just went even in lane, lost lane, or even just zoned them and didn't get fed, all you have is an attack speed steroid and spells that are rapidly becoming irrelevant because of lack of AP.

Bloodthirster's main damage advantage over IE is the extra 20 AD - it makes abilities that scale off of AD work better. It's very good on champions like graves (Q and R), MF (Q and R), corki, and ezreal. But it doesn't synergize with tristana at all, and IE adds significantly more damage output to her autos, which is what 700 range and her Q is good for.

Basically her midgame is bad, and so she wants to be at lategame as fast as possible. Wriggle's won't help you get there, and bloodthirster is really more for midgame than IE.

[toasty]

...Beg pardon? I swear by Bloodthirster on Trist, always before IE, and Wriggle's is actually rather good on her.

Yeah, I agree with Djinn here. Wriggles is amazing sustain if you have a non-sustain support or if you are soloing a lane (solo top, ward, shove the lane HARD, you just got a tower in 15 minutes np).

Trist has terrible mid game, yeah, but most of the carries have terrible midgame, which is why they rush IE and stuff.

Bloodthrister first on Trist usually isn't a good idea, IMO. IE+PhantomDancer+QQS seems the standard build.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Bloodthirster's main damage advantage over IE is the extra 20 AD - it makes abilities that scale off of AD work better. It's very good on champions like graves (Q and R), MF (Q and R), corki, and ezreal. But it doesn't synergize with tristana at all, and IE adds significantly more damage output to her autos, which is what 700 range and her Q is good for.

Basically her midgame is bad, and so she wants to be at lategame as fast as possible. Wriggle's won't help you get there, and bloodthirster is really more for midgame than IE.

Um...60+% AS speed steroid doesn't synergize with lifesteal and AD how again? It's incredibly amazing synergy, and lets you farm longer (more sustain = more farming), which leads you to your late-game build earlier (more gold = more items).

I wouldn't get Wriggle's + BT before IE, but I'd definitely get one or the other before IE...I favor Bloodthirster, but each to their own.

[ShortOne]

Yeah, I agree with Djinn here. Wriggles is amazing sustain if you have a non-sustain support or if you are soloing a lane (solo top, ward, shove the lane HARD, you just got a tower in 15 minutes np).

Trist has terrible mid game, yeah, but most of the carries have terrible midgame, which is why they rush IE and stuff.

Bloodthrister first on Trist usually isn't a good idea, IMO. IE+PhantomDancer+QQS seems the standard build.


Yeah, I agree with Djinn here. Wriggles is amazing sustain if you have a non-sustain support or if you are soloing a lane (solo top, ward, shove the lane HARD, you just got a tower in 15 minutes np).



Yeah, I agree with Djinn here.

...Did Toasty just agree with Djinn? Is the sky about to cave in?

[Laudandus]

Yeah, I agree with Djinn here. Wriggles is amazing sustain if you have a non-sustain support or if you are soloing a lane (solo top, ward, shove the lane HARD, you just got a tower in 15 minutes np).

Trist has terrible mid game, yeah, but most of the carries have terrible midgame, which is why they rush IE and stuff.

Bloodthrister first on Trist usually isn't a good idea, IMO. IE+PhantomDancer+QQS seems the standard build.

Most carries have pretty good midgame. Ashe's is terrible except for arrow, but ezreal and corki both have the burst of a caster if you got sheen, cait's Q and R do a significant amount of damage, graves is massively overpowered midgame thanks to his burst, and kog's W is so good that he still has a good midgame. It's really just trist and ashe that have problems there, which is why I'd never build BT or wriggle's on her.

Generally for sustain in lane, trist would rather have triple or double doran - it costs less, and it's really enough if you don't take bad trades. Your role is to farm, not to harass your opponents out of a lane - generally you're burst anyway, so if they try to trade with you, just try to kill them.

[toasty]

...Did Toasty just agree with Djinn? Is the sky about to cave in?

I agree with Djinn because Djinn agrees with Chaox. :smallbiggrin:

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I agree with Djinn because Djinn agrees with Chaox. :smallbiggrin:

This explains everything...except I don't know who the hell Chaox is.

I think he agrees with me rather than the other way around. :smalltongue:

[Dallas-Dakota]

So am I the only person out there who thinks atmas/atmogs should be removed/changed?
Or atleast make a item that would d X(X)% of itemized health?

Because I'm getting pretty tired of just every squishy going ''Hahaha, I'm now suddenly pretty damn tanky and also gain a tonne of attack damage from it''

It's just a really easy way to make tanky DPS happen in my oppinion, say instead of carefull balance between how tanky you are and how much damage you do. I'm NOT saying items such as Abyssal should be removed, just on the atmogs...

I get that it's a way for Riot to make Melee DPS viable but, in my oppinion it's a poor way to do it....

Yes, you can counter it with Madreds, but that's a rough 4K gold that you're going to have to spend to counter it, which generally does take some time to farm up, generally enough time for the other person to stomp you in the face if you're not carefull. Though yes, I have to admit you can see a atmogs coming from quite some while away...

[toasty]

This explains everything...except I don't know who the hell Chaox is.

I think he agrees with me rather than the other way around. :smalltongue:

Chaox is the AD player for Team Solo Mid. He's big on theorycrafting.

I also once saw a Trist go solo top rush wriggles, and beat up on our top solo because of ulimited shoving against a melee DPS.

@Atmogs: its op, it needs to be fixed. Having said that, I prefer other items right now. Triforce+Tanky. Shurelias, Ghostblade, I am in LOVE with those items.

[Astrella]

I agree with Djinn because Djinn agrees with Chaox. :smallbiggrin:

I smacked my head against my desk when reading this. Thank you, Toasty, now my head hurts.

[toasty]

I smacked my head against my desk when reading this. Thank you, Toasty, now my head hurts.

I made a joke in line with my personality and you hurt yourself. Who's fault is that?

[Math_Mage]

I can see the rationale behind going AD-sustain into midgame instead of AD-crit, since Trist isn't really high enough range at that point to get off a ton of free poke, and it's a good time to farm up BT. But I'll have to play it out to really see--and I've never liked building Wriggle's on Trist, because I'm never backing at a good time to build it. Maybe in a solo lane vs. a bruiser, but I'm almost always bot.

[ex cathedra]

Also, I just tried something funny in practice, and admittedly have no clue how it would work in a real game, but... Lucidity boots on Graves.

This got me thinking. I mean, CDR boots on Graves is stupid, but you're right in that, given his steroid, stacking attack speed isn't as beneficial on Graves as it is on Ashe/Cait/Kog/Vayne. So... if you don't need to buy Zerkers, what do you buy? Naturally, Merc Treads. This lead to some simple math and theorycrafting (class was super boring today, okay?) that led me to my proposed Graves build: Semi-tanky deeps.

21/6/3, Armor Pen, Health per Level, MR per Level, AD.

Mercury Treads, Infinity Edge, Phantom Dancer, Bloodthirster, Trinity Force, Last Whisper.

Hear me out:

371 AD, 2.017 Attacks per Second, 72% Crit Rate, 260% Crit Damage, 40% Armor Pen. That's a lot of deeps, okay? It's roughly 1610 damage per second before taking Armor or Armor Pen into account. Assuming 100 Armor, you're dealing 1046 damage per second, disregarding Triforce procs.

119 Armor, 125 MR, 35 Tenacity, 25% Lifesteal.
That's 5140 eHP versus physical damage and 5281 eHP versus Magical damage, with five offensive items. In a 1v1, you're lifestealing roughly 580 eHP per second.

Just a thought, you know? Not every has perfect positioning, and without impossibly perfect teamwork and coordination assassins will get to you if they're trying hard enough. Graves can become quite the bruiser with this build, I think.

Edit:

PhantomLord
Also, Lol.

[Mutant Bunny]

... I still want my 4800 AD carry.

In other news, played as both jungle Taric and jungle Warwick today (was gonna change to Trundle, but was too indecisive) and had some fun.

Also, we had xerath vs malzahar, which I would guess should go malz's way thanks to his silence, but I'm pretty sure I saw Malz using Malefic Visions to harass. So is it just me, or did or xerath (on my team, went 3/0 in lane) get lucky in facing a bad malzahar?

Also, Chogath vs Vladimir. I'm guessing that should go Cho's way easily, but the cho (on my team) apparently focused Q over W.

[Spartacus]

... I still want my 4800 AD carry.

I'm fine with my free one and my 3150 one.

EDIT: Oh yeah, forgot to mention. Brand and Mordekaiser is not a good lane for a solo Nasus.

[tyckspoon]

Also, we had xerath vs malzahar, which I would guess should go malz's way thanks to his silence, but I'm pretty sure I saw Malz using Malefic Visions to harass. So is it just me, or did or xerath (on my team, went 3/0 in lane) get lucky in facing a bad malzahar?


The Malzahar was probably bad- if he's close enough to harass with Visions he's getting too close, because he might get caught with a Mage Chains for a stun- but I don't think it's as easy a victory for him as you believe. Xerath's primary poke/nuke and his ult match range with Malz's Q, outrange everything else he does, and every one of Xerath's abilities significantly outranges Malz when Xerath is using Locus of Power. If Malz wants to walk in to try and poke Xerath with anything other than Q he's going to have to dodge lazors to do it.

[ex cathedra]

EDIT: Oh yeah, forgot to mention. Brand and Mordekaiser is not a good lane for a solo Nasus.

Fiddlesticks + Singed is a bad lane for a solo Jax. :smallfrown:

[Daverin]

Alright, sent you another request Winterwind. Remember it is Arcalius.

[Dogmantra]

Also, we had xerath vs malzahar, which I would guess should go malz's way thanks to his silence, but I'm pretty sure I saw Malz using Malefic Visions to harass. So is it just me, or did or xerath (on my team, went 3/0 in lane) get lucky in facing a bad malzahar?

In my experience, Malz uses his superior range by selectively Malefic Visionsing minions to harass Xerath for free.

[Winterwind]

Alright, sent you another request Winterwind. Remember it is Arcalius.Got it this time. :smallsmile:

...at the same time, I also got a request from a person named "TSORa". Is that a Playgrounder who hasn't revealed his name in the thread yet? It appears to be a level 1 account, so it can't be some random pubbie to whom I have endeared myself in one of my previous games...

[Winthur]

...at the same time, I also got a request from a person named "TSORa". Is that a Playgrounder who hasn't revealed his name in the thread yet? It appears to be a level 1 account, so it can't be some random pubbie to whom I have endeared myself in one of my previous games...

My EU West quasi-account I use to check on EU-pros runepages, talk to Elealar about the Civ4 succession game, and maybe play a light game on a good free week.

[Mutant Bunny]

In my experience, Malz uses his superior range by selectively Malefic Visionsing minions to harass Xerath for free.

Yeah, but the time I saw him using it, the entire minion wave was still there. I'm pretty sure he just threw it on Xerath as harass, not farm.


The Malzahar was probably bad- if he's close enough to harass with Visions he's getting too close, because he might get caught with a Mage Chains for a stun- but I don't think it's as easy a victory for him as you believe. Xerath's primary poke/nuke and his ult match range with Malz's Q, outrange everything else he does, and every one of Xerath's abilities significantly outranges Malz when Xerath is using Locus of Power. If Malz wants to walk in to try and poke Xerath with anything other than Q he's going to have to dodge lazors to do it.

I figured that Malz could probably hit him pretty easily with his Q, then get out of range before the silence wears off and get back to farming. I see no reason for Xerath to go 3-1 in that lane...

[ex cathedra]

To be fair, I feel like Malzahar takes significantly more skill to play. When laning against Malzahar, Xerath doesn't have to worry about anything other than staying out of range of silence and getting out of Vision's way. He doesn't even have to last hit; unless he needs a gank, he can safely clear waves with Q+Q after Malz inevitably pushes with Visions.

I think that Malz would have a lot of advantages in that lane, as a champion, but he needs to be played well in order to make use of them.

[tribble]

I just had a game where every single player on the other team was packing exhaust. They had a tryndamere, too. JEEZ. Fortunately I was playing Nasus and was able to farm my Q enough. They had a D/C and that sped it up, but I feel like it was only a matter of time at that point anyway. I think that was also the fastest warmog's charge I've ever had on SR.

[TechnOkami]

So, while I was under SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARTACUS' rigorous work regiment on "How to Be a Better Nasus", I thought of something interesting: has anyone gotten a, or a series of Legendary Kills before?

[Spartacus]

Rigorous work regimen being basically mocking him for having a low CS. :smalltongue:

[tribble]

So, while I was under SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARTACUS' rigorous work regiment on "How to Be a Better Nasus", I thought of something interesting: has anyone gotten a, or a series of Legendary Kills before?

I'm pretty sure you have to stage those, nobody takes revive.

[Hatevah]

I wonder, though...glass cannon fed Xerath could kill people in their own pool outside of lazer range? yes/no/maybe? Depending on the window for a rolling team fight (or a fight at the end, with an afker who's very underleveled/geared)?
I'm not volunteering to test it, but he should have the range to do it, right?

[dgnslyr]

Yeah, but you'd not only need to be at the point where you can just about instagib anybody, but also have a short enough delay between kills so it gets counted as one continuous killing streak. The other team would have to be at very low levels, and you'd need to be supercharged with AP, and you'd need to kill them one by one, so there's enough time for the next wave of victims to spawn.

That said, he almost definitely has the range for it, because fountain range is oh-so slightly more than Blitzcrank's grab range, and his range is probably more than that.

[ex cathedra]

Okay, so, I learned that Shaco can facilitate easy pre-3 minute dragons. This led to the following game:


http://i.imgur.com/wPT4A.jpg

Surrender at 28 minutes. We had 5 dragons and 3 towers on the enemy. Mid Cait, Top Skarner, Bot Nasus, Bot/semi-roaming/semi-counter-jungling Shaco, Jungle Fiddles.

Dragon at 3. Set up, dragon at 9. Then 15, Then 22, then 28. Nocturne did nothing but gank mid for most of the game, hence Lego's problem. He ganked bottom twice. The first time, he ran into a box trap and Nasus and I split kills on Morgana and Nocturne, before pushing the tower. The second time, Fiddles is in the area and we sweep bottom lane.

Oh, yeah. That's right. I'm packing rally.

[dgnslyr]

Rally on Shaco is funny. Maybe not optimal, but the way it can boost a mass box-pile is pretty impressive.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Trying to get a friend off Yi.

He says he likes the backdooring aspect.

What are some viable alternatives I can steer him towards?

EDIT: Thinking Jax, Xin Zhao, and/or Teemo. Tryndamere is too hit-or-miss, and Shaco takes more finesse than he's capable of. He already plays Alistar, could he work well with an AD Build?

[Tychris1]

Trying to get a friend off Yi.

He says he likes the backdooring aspect.

What are some viable alternatives I can steer him towards?

EDIT: Thinking Jax, Xin Zhao, and/or Teemo. Tryndamere is too hit-or-miss, and Shaco takes more finesse than he's capable of.


I'd recommend Twitch, yep, most definetely twitch.

[Eldariel]

To be fair, I feel like Malzahar takes significantly more skill to play. When laning against Malzahar, Xerath doesn't have to worry about anything other than staying out of range of silence and getting out of Vision's way. He doesn't even have to last hit; unless he needs a gank, he can safely clear waves with Q+Q after Malz inevitably pushes with Visions.

I think that Malz would have a lot of advantages in that lane, as a champion, but he needs to be played well in order to make use of them.

Using Locus of Power is like a call for Silence + Pool; can't move while initiating it.


I'm pretty sure you have to stage those, nobody takes revive.

Actually, you could thanks to Dominion. That's a map on which people legitimately use Revive.


Trying to get a friend off Yi.

He says he likes the backdooring aspect.

What are some viable alternatives I can steer him towards?

EDIT: Thinking Jax, Xin Zhao, and/or Teemo. Tryndamere is too hit-or-miss, and Shaco takes more finesse than he's capable of. He already plays Alistar, could he work well with an AD Build?

TF? Alistar definitely works too.

[Daverin]

Okay, so, I learned that Shaco can facilitate easy pre-3 minute dragons. This led to the following game: rally. [/spoiler]

You, sir, remind me of the fact that I hate Shaco right now. I don't think a champ can currently get more annoying...

[Spartacus]

So I am sitting in Mumble listening to a game with aethernox playing support Anivia. Sounds like it is going poorly.

[Tychris1]

Anivia

Just the sight of the champion Anivia makes me have a 50/50 bet on the game going horribley. Not that the champ is bad, just that I have the worst of luck whenever I see someone play her.

[Eldariel]

Troll Logic Gaming (http://clgaming.net/live/565-clg-hotshotgg) playing some tournament right now. They almost gave a free Baron for no reason already (and HS refuses to base; says "he's got it" - plays Tanky DPS Nidalee).

[Spartacus]

Okay, so, I learned that Shaco can facilitate easy pre-3 minute dragons. This led to the following game:

Lol at 0/0/0 top lane.

[TechnOkami]

Okay, so, I learned that Shaco can facilitate easy pre-3 minute dragons. This led to the following game:


http://i.imgur.com/wPT4A.jpg

Surrender at 28 minutes. We had 5 dragons and 3 towers on the enemy. Mid Cait, Top Skarner, Bot Nasus, Bot/semi-roaming/semi-counter-jungling Shaco, Jungle Fiddles.

Dragon at 3. Set up, dragon at 9. Then 15, Then 22, then 28. Nocturne did nothing but gank mid for most of the game, hence Lego's problem. He ganked bottom twice. The first time, he ran into a box trap and Nasus and I split kills on Morgana and Nocturne, before pushing the tower. The second time, Fiddles is in the area and we sweep bottom lane.

Oh, yeah. That's right. I'm packing rally.

So, that was not at all a good test of the new Skarner. I need to play him again.

[Mtg_player_zach]

So I am sitting in Mumble listening to a game with aethernox playing support Anivia. Sounds like it is going poorly.

It did go poorly. Though, it was usually positioning problems. Anivia doing no damage certainly didn't help, but it was not the reason the game went poorly.

[ex cathedra]

It did go poorly. Though, it was usually positioning problems. Anivia doing no damage certainly didn't help, but it was not the reason the game went poorly.

Yeah. I really do feel bad when I realize that in recent memory, I play my weakest role and then pick champions that are bad at it whenever I play with you. Sorry. :smallfrown: Given the choice, I don't generally do duo lanes, but oh well.

[Mtg_player_zach]

Yeah. I really do feel bad when I realize that in recent memory, I play my weakest role and then pick champions that are bad at it whenever I play with you. Sorry. :smallfrown: Given the choice, I don't generally do duo lanes, but oh well.

You Troll me too hard. See, I don't duo lane. I usually jungle. Or I AP carry mid. Or I tanky deeps the top lane. The only situation I duo lane- is when I'm AD carry with a legit support- who I trust.


Of course, sometimes, getting people to work with me is next to impossible. Something as simple as ward your lane, and stop wandering around in the enemy jungle alone, can be difficult for people. Let alone team comp. :smallfrown:

[Eldariel]

I'm intrigued by Panda's claims of "changing the Meta"; I know they've experimented with running mages bot and moving the CV onto the bruiser for more lane domination in bot but beyond that I don't have a clue of what he's talking.

[ex cathedra]

You Troll me too hard. See, I don't duo lane. I usually jungle. Or I AP carry mid. Or I tanky deeps the top lane. The only situation I duo lane- is when I'm AD carry with a legit support- who I trust.

Yeah. I'm comfortable with 8 or so junglers and 15 or so solos, not mentioning the junglers/solos who I vaguely understand but haven't practiced. That's not great, but it works. My duo lane champions? I feel like I'm passable, at best, with Alistar, Taric, and support GP. I don't even like playing them. I'm not confident enough to play a single duo-laning AD carry. :smallfrown: It's highly unfortunate.

[userpay]

Finally played my first game vs Graves, very interesting I must say. Think I'll probably wait another week or two before considering buying him to see how any nerfs/buffs pan out.

[toasty]

I'm intrigued by Panda's claims of "changing the Meta"; I know they've experimented with running mages bot and moving the CV onto the bruiser for more lane domination in bot but beyond that I don't have a clue of what he's talking.

Support Teemo. :smallbiggrin:

[Eldariel]

Support Teemo. :smallbiggrin:

It's a flippin' genius idea tho; free Wards + good anti-AD ability for lane fights and a champ that kinda does nothing else anyways. :smallbiggrin:

[PersonMan]

So. I'm planning on returning to playing Ranked(primarily due to having recently had an awesome game with a great team), but before I do I'd like to cover my bases and ask for tips on, well, mid.

At the moment I'm comfortable with jungling, being a support or tank or whatever bot, but top and mid I have little to no experience with. I've played mid in one(non-ranked) game, as Heimer, and at the beginning I had an advantage, but eventually I kept getting harassed out(although it could be that the enemy was Caitlyn, she kept getting me with those shoot-through-minion things). So: What should I do differently from a duo lane to be able to mid/solo top well?

[Duos]

It's a flippin' genius idea tho; free Wards + good anti-AD ability for lane fights and a champ that kinda does nothing else anyways. :smallbiggrin:

Don't forget teemo's global taunt! He can keep the enemy carry/assassin/anti-carry off your carry too!

[toasty]

It's a flippin' genius idea tho; free Wards + good anti-AD ability for lane fights and a champ that kinda does nothing else anyways. :smallbiggrin:

I like the idea of support ashe more, honestly. :smalltongue:

[Eldariel]

I like the idea of support ashe more, honestly. :smalltongue:

The prob I see with Support Ashe is that Ashe+Ranged AD will probably have some trouble against strong AD + Support lanes (though Ashe's passive definitely shines when she's not the one farming; I've had some luck with AD + AD bots before so maybe it could work - I really like the built-in tension between Hawkshot-empowered farming and her passive, honestly), while Teemo + AD is actually brutally efficient since Teemo takes the AD out of the fight for a long duration at a range.

I don't know how happy Ashe is running 21 Utility for Sufficient CV either. That's actually my biggest problem with many unconventional supports; you need 21 Utility for optimal CV use (and the difference is huge) and most unconventional supports would rather run 21 Offense or something. I totally wanna start outsourcing the CV to team mages who have 21 Utility anyways.

[Spartacus]

Just played a game of Dominion, and now I really agree with Eldariel that the score is borked. Defended my point like a boss, forced the enemy to keep two bot at all times just to discourage me from pushing, and capped it a couple times besides, but ended up with the lowest score, because my team was full of people who seem to think that as long as you capture a point, it doesn't matter if Rammus comes in 4 seconds later and takes it back.

But yeah, Jax is kinda unfair if he gets some items. I managed to sit by the enemy bot, killing the minions as they spawned so the enemy either had to come at a Jax that is fully spun up with stun up, or watch the lane slowly shove their tower down. Graves and akali eventually decided to force the issue, and once I jumped clear of all the stealth (my god, Shroud+grenade is annoying. Hidden Akali forever) I just turned on them and had a double kill in no time, with 80% health remaining.

[Dogmantra]

Yeah, but the time I saw him using it, the entire minion wave was still there. I'm pretty sure he just threw it on Xerath as harass, not farm.
Then he was probably not too hot. I've done the matchup a couple of times as Malzahar, and if you can dodge Xerath's Lux Ult, you can play just like how you would against anyone, namely: walk up, Malefic Visions, walk away. Most Malzahars waste so much mana trying to do fancy things like harassing with Call of the Void.


I'm pretty sure you have to stage those, nobody takes revive.
Ahem.
Revive Vayne is SO OP.


Trying to get a friend off Yi.

He says he likes the backdooring aspect.

What are some viable alternatives I can steer him towards?

EDIT: Thinking Jax, Xin Zhao, and/or Teemo. Tryndamere is too hit-or-miss, and Shaco takes more finesse than he's capable of. He already plays Alistar, could he work well with an AD Build?
If he doesn't want to stop playing Yi, presumably he plays a squishy Yi, you should try to get him to try a tanky DPS Yi, Ghostblade, Randuin's, Quicksilver Sash, Frozen Mallet, that sort of thing. I like getting two or three gold per second items which is why you see the Randuin's in there. Oh, also item actives are OP.

[Math_Mage]

Today's LoL matches were full of
-EPIC RAGE!
-DRAMATIC SHAME!
-VINDICATION!
-KARMIC JUSTICE!!!

Game 1: 0/8/4 Alistar. I legit feel this was not my fault, but rather the fault of the Kog'maw I laned with, who felt 300 HP lost to harass per CS was a fair trade, and bitched at me when I died to keep him alive.
Game 2: 1/12/12 Udyr. I started off well, but then kept trying to put the enemy behind instead of farming up, and got way behind myself. Utter failure.
Game 3: 5/4/16 Urgot (TT). Against three quasi-melee champs (Renekton, Kayle, Vlad), this was a cinch. Especially when my friend's Twitch was involved.
Game 4: 7/2/7 Singed. Enemy Blitz was a trash-talking foe from game 2 who I'd eventually ignored; I thought Blitz-Poppy lane was gonna starve me pretty hard, but they let me get every bit of XP and then Blitz started roaming. Poppy was a free kill, tower was free, and I was so far ahead I built Deathcap while still being tankier than their entire team.

Highlight of the night: Chasing a low-health Poppy at 1/3 health in top lane, I run into Blitz and they rapidly take out most of the rest of my health. I'm also out of mana, so I run while firing off intermittent spurts of poison. Poppy eventually gives up the chase before her health gives out; Blitz is still after me, and I start juking him in the top lane brushes, back and forth and back and forth...about 10 times before I realize that he's out of mana too, and I just walk away. This is the first time I've ever all-chatted "TROLOLOLOL" after a play.

[Spartacus]

I started off well, but then kept trying to put the enemy behind instead of farming up, and got way behind myself.

Maybe it comes from mainly playing characters like Nasus, Alistar and Jax, but I find my response to an enemy farming is to also farm. I realize that Alistar and Jax, at least, can often force the enemy out of lane, but I prefer safe farming. Once you're ahead, you fight to stay ahead and keep the advantage. Day[9] had a bit on the marginal advantage (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=64514) that I rather like.

[Talesin]

Played a few games last night but the one i'd like to mention is on my game as Amumu.

I went bot lane, yeah I know he sucks but its unranked, with Ashe. We had Tryna and Irelia top and Cait in the mid. We faced and Evelyn and a Corki in our lane, had a Graves solo top, Annie mid and Lee Sin jungling. We tried to counter jungle Lee Sin at level 1, after a short engage with Corki, but couldn't find him. Moving back to lane I checked blue on the way and he wasn't there but a bandage toss later I killed Corki at level 1. Well stunned him and then let Ashe get the final hit. We pushed Evelyn out of lane pretty quickly so got some time on the tower.

Thought we were doing fairly well here, setting up a second kill on Corki and almost getting Evelyn before Annie showed up bot and forced us to retreat. However then the bad started. A Lee Sin gank up top killed both of our team before ganking mid forced Cait to return and only the swift intervention of myself and Ashe stopped the tower going down. Returning bot we ganked Corki, who then Dc'd and went for Eve before Graves showed up and killed both of us on his own.

Alarm bells rang a little here, given I was the tank so I assumed I would be able to kill him fom 30% to 0 but I thought nothing of it and carried on. We lost the top tower quickly after, dragon and the mid tower a little after that and after our Trynda had finished getting himself killed repeatidly we had 8 kills to their 16 with 10 of them going to Graves and the other 6 to their Lee Sin.

We warded quite well this game and caught them going 4 man Baron, which I was expecting so we were all nearby. We jumped them, assuming we'd get them or Baron, and we got torn to pieces. They aced us, losing Eve in the process, but were too weak to get Baron. We lost about 15 minutes later but I couldn't believe the power they had.

Turns out Graves and Lee Sin were both 30, so going toe to toe with these guys meant they ate through me fairly quickly. Graves had 4 levels on me by the time team fights really kicked off and I only just had more Armour and MR when he was fully stacked. He did do a good job keeping his stacks up, so credit to him there. We managed to kill him twice, both times involved blowing everything to get him down, only to find us smashed to pieces by Lee Sin/Annie after.

Actually enjoyed it though because it became a real test of skill trying to keep people alive as if I engaged I was almost certainly going to get myself killed just saving someone else, so it really pushed my play. Shame they had 2 30s and our highest was a 22, but win some lose some.

[Math_Mage]

Maybe it comes from mainly playing characters like Nasus, Alistar and Jax, but I find my response to an enemy farming is to also farm. I realize that Alistar and Jax, at least, can often force the enemy out of lane, but I prefer safe farming. Once you're ahead, you fight to stay ahead and keep the advantage. Day[9] had a bit on the marginal advantage (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=64514) that I rather like.

I play chess. I know marginal advantage. I just had my brain switched off for most of the night.

[Winterwind]

My EU West quasi-account I use to check on EU-pros runepages, talk to Elealar about the Civ4 succession game, and maybe play a light game on a good free week.Ah, I see. Alrighty, will add you, then. :smallsmile:

[potatocubed]

Blitz is still after me, and I start juking him in the top lane brushes, back and forth and back and forth...about 10 times before I realize that he's out of mana too, and I just walk away. This is the first time I've ever all-chatted "TROLOLOLOL" after a play.

I had a moment like that during a game last night, except I was playing Karma. I'd been split-pushing with her fantastic minion-clearing power (R-E-Q-what minion wave, I see no minion wave) and left it just a fraction too late getting out, so I ended up with their entire team chasing me the length of top lane. They flash, I flash. They slow, I slow. (Hello Rylai's.) They ghost, I use tether. I drop my shield on myself whenever it's off CD, spam mantra'd Qs back down-lane to harrass them and heal myself, run for the base turret.

They knocked off 90% off my health but I kited them right into my team - who, credit where it's due, had come running for me the moment trouble showed up - and they wiped up.

That was actually a pretty boss game all round, really - we went from being 6-14 down at minute 15 or so to a pretty solid victory, thanks to better teamplay and a Veigar with over 1000 AP.

[Misery Esquire]

I don't think a champ can currently get more annoying...

Teemo.

Cave Johnson, we're done here.

[Dogmantra]

I had a moment like that during a game last night, except I was playing Karma.
Karma is just amazing for this. She's sooooo fun and almost as good as Singed at running and not caring even one bit.

[PersonMan]

Played a 5v5 as Morgana, my first game with her in a long time. Was in a 2v1 lane(we had a jungler) for a while, in the end we lost and I was 4/4/3.

Played a game of Dominion, decided to try going bot for once.
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz261/Scarge/DominiMorganaWin.png

It was fun.

With everything ready, I found that I could basically 1v1 anyone and win with Binding-Soil-Ignite-Ulti. I only used the Hourglass once, at the very end, to survive while 3 of the enemy were attacking me at a point.

[ArcanistSupreme]

It's a flippin' genius idea tho; free Wards + good anti-AD ability for lane fights and a champ that kinda does nothing else anyways. :smallbiggrin:

It's too bad that his range is so short that you need to be pretty tanky in order to pull it off. Also, it doesn't really work against champs like Urgot and Ezrael. It's not ideal for the same reason that AP Teemo isn't. Sure is fun, though.

[Dogmantra]

It's too bad that his range is so short that you need to be pretty tanky in order to pull it off. Also, it doesn't really work against champs like Urgot and Ezrael. It's not ideal for the same reason that AP Teemo isn't. Sure is fun, though.

Yeah, I'd actually want Teemo on the carry role if I was to duo lane him (that said, I think he solos a bit better, and you'd need to pop a lot more physical damage in your solos than usual)

[Daverin]

Teemo.

Cave Johnson, we're done here.

To be honest, Teemo is, in fact, less annoying to me. Although mainly only because he doesn't actually do anything beyond early game/shrooms, whereas Shaco is obnoxious AND deadly.

[ArcanistSupreme]

To be honest, Teemo is, in fact, less annoying to me. Although mainly only because he doesn't actually do anything beyond early game/shrooms, whereas Shaco is obnoxious AND deadly.

Sure, most Teemos turn out hilariously useless, but I've also played with/against some really mean Teemos. AP Teemo is ridiculous against disorganized opponents. Tanky AD Teemo is also bonkers in the right team comps (or should I say Team-o comps?).

And to be fair, I've seen just as many bad Shacos as bad Teemos. Both are a little trickly to play correctly.

[Geigan]

Whenever I see an AP shaco I always expect to see, "I AM THE BOX GHOST!!" in chat like my one friend who plays him.

FEAR ME

[ArcanistSupreme]

The problem with AP Shaco is if you keep an eye on him and don't walk into his nests of boxes, you can pretty much ignore him. Against less coordinated teams, though, he is pretty darn terrifying.

[Geigan]

The problem with AP Shaco is if you keep an eye on him and don't walk into his nests of boxes, you can pretty much ignore him. Against less coordinated teams, though, he is pretty darn terrifying.

Oh he's never really been a problem, but I always think AP Shaco is funny no matter what team he's on. :smallbiggrin:

[toasty]

To be honest, Teemo is, in fact, less annoying to me. Although mainly only because he doesn't actually do anything beyond early game/shrooms, whereas Shaco is obnoxious AND deadly.

He's a really strong top laner against melee champions.

Sure, he isn't amazing in teamfights, so don't teamfight. Teleport/Flash, solo top, mushroom kingdom, harass and zone your enemy, shove their tower and only tp to fights when you have to.

Teemo is a good hero, especially in solo queue.

[ArcanistSupreme]

He's a really strong top laner against melee champions.

Sure, he isn't amazing in teamfights, so don't teamfight. Teleport/Flash, solo top, mushroom kingdom, harass and zone your enemy, shove their tower and only tp to fights when you have to.

Teemo is a good hero, especially in solo queue.

Teemo (Tanky AD Teemo) does just fine in team fights in the right comps. He was on the winning team at Dreamhack a couple of times. Kind of a niche champion, but he gets the job done when he's used right.

Also, teamfights will always happen, or you're going to be giving away towers/dragons/baron for free. And if you don't join in, the other team will gladly engage on a 5v4.

[toasty]

Also, teamfights will always happen, or you're going to be giving away towers/dragons/baron for free. And if you don't join in, the other team will gladly engage on a 5v4.

You take teleport, you take top tower. There are ways to avoid teamfights. Heroes with low teamfight presence and high laning power are okay because if you get a kill in lane, the fact that you have low teamfight presence is okay because your opponent has less farm.

Teemo isn't the BEST hero out there, The Rain Man hasn't played him in a tournament since Dreamhack (I'm not sure why, I'm sure there is a reason), but he's still a fine hero, ESPECIALLY, in solo queue, where everything works if you know what you're doing.

[ArcanistSupreme]

You take teleport, you take top tower. There are ways to avoid teamfights. Heroes with low teamfight presence and high laning power are okay because if you get a kill in lane, the fact that you have low teamfight presence is okay because your opponent has less farm.

Teemo isn't the BEST hero out there, The Rain Man hasn't played him in a tournament since Dreamhack (I'm not sure why, I'm sure there is a reason), but he's still a fine hero, ESPECIALLY, in solo queue, where everything works if you know what you're doing.

I'll give you that. Eventually, you will have to engage in teamfights. But when played as you described and by avoiding early teamfights, you will be much better farmed thus able to contribute significantly to later teamfights.

[Daverin]

I'll grant, Teemo doesn't have to suck, even if everyone at my level wants to play him as such. Still doesn't annoy me as much as Shaco, currently. (Shaco has a movable stealth over Teemo's Camo, Boxes, and the clone of obnoxiousness. Even if what he does is ineffective, it remains annoying...)

[Volatar]

Holy crap. I stop reading the thread for a week and suddenly you go from page 35 of one thread, to page 8 of the next thread. :smalleek:

[Astrella]

Holy crap. I stop reading the thread for a week and suddenly you go from page 35 of one thread, to page 8 of the next thread. :smalleek:

Must have been a slow week. :smallwink:

[Draken]

Holy crap. I stop reading the thread for a week and suddenly you go from page 35 of one thread, to page 8 of the next thread. :smalleek:

Yeah, it is moving pretty slow. I remmeber a time when you would miss two or three threads if you didn't read gitp for a whole week (not necessarily here, but around the forum).

[Dogmantra]

Teemo is one of the best characters in the game because he has such wonderful skins.

(actually it's because he can say "nnnnope" to the AD carry for three seconds, split pushes like nobody's business, mushrooms, mushrooms everywhere [free wards = less money wasted on lameo wards = more money for WIT'S END STACKING {or for cheapskate to win if you're more sensible than Wit's End Stacking}] and finally he has poison, which opens a whole host of opportunities for poisson/poison French Restaurant puns)

[AtwasAwamps]

Is it just me, or does Graves enter god mode upon purchasing a second Doran's blade?

I love the champ, but I've only really had the opportunity to play him four times in actual games. In two of them, it was a pretty average laning experience, back and forth, eventually winning. In another two, we were definitely losing the lane until I went back and purchased a second Doran's blade, at which point somehow our opponents were doing no damage in their efforts to harass me and I was murdering them with impunity.

Fastest Carry Build ever? Perhaps.

[balistafreak]

Is it just me, or does Graves enter god mode upon purchasing a second Doran's blade?

I love the champ, but I've only really had the opportunity to play him four times in actual games. In two of them, it was a pretty average laning experience, back and forth, eventually winning. In another two, we were definitely losing the lane until I went back and purchased a second Doran's blade, at which point somehow our opponents were doing no damage in their efforts to harass me and I was murdering them with impunity.

Fastest Carry Build ever? Perhaps.

Buckshot's AD ratio is kind of awesome. 0.8 on each pellet, yes, but if you clip an enemy with two or three at close range (right before you Quick Draw away) it turns into a 1.36 AD ratio. Oh, and it has pretty good base damage as well.

[Silverraptor]

Whenever I see an AP shaco I always expect to see, "I AM THE BOX GHOST!!" in chat like my one friend who plays him.

FEAR ME

BEWARE!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUqeC2UU4oE)

:smalltongue:

[ArcanistSupreme]

Teemo is one of the best characters in the game because he has such wonderful skins.

I can't decide if Astronaut Teemo or Gentleman Cho'gath is the best skin in the game. Cottontail Teemo is also definitely in the top ten.

[Joran]

I can't decide if Astronaut Teemo or Gentleman Cho'gath is the best skin in the game. Cottontail Teemo is also definitely in the top ten.

As an Asian-American, Lion Dance Kog'Maw will always have a soft spot in my heart.

Amumu has some of the best skins in the game. Little Knight Amumu's my favorite.

The skin that saddens me the most is Reverse Annie. Such a great skin idea, not as cute as I thought it would be :(

[balistafreak]

I can't decide if Astronaut Teemo or Gentleman Cho'gath is the best skin in the game. Cottontail Teemo is also definitely in the top ten.


As an Asian-American, Lion Dance Kog'Maw will always have a soft spot in my heart.

Amumu has some of the best skins in the game.

The skin that saddens me the most is Reverse Annie. Such a great skin idea, not as cute as I thought it would be :(

I've always been partial to Surgeon Shen and Kennen, M.D. myself. Then again... knowing my background... :smallredface:

Besides, Surgeon Shen teleporting onto and saving a teammate always makes me chuckle. Something about medical scrubs is just too funny on a ninja.

[Dogmantra]

I can't decide if Astronaut Teemo or Gentleman Cho'gath is the best skin in the game. Cottontail Teemo is also definitely in the top ten.

You seem to have mis-spelt Explorezreal.

Three times.

[toasty]

Guys, the best skin is Feral Warwick.

Knight Amumu is pretty cool to though.

All this talk about teemo makes me want to play him. Dammit. :smalltongue:

[TechnOkami]

I'm an unintentionally cheap guy: I only like the original art of Malzahar and Skarner (although, I do like the idea of armored voidlings in his overlord skin :smallredface: ). I also like Singed's original skin more than the others (though I do like the hair on Alchemist Singed or whatever it's called), and I liked Xerath's Runebork skin back when it had blue particles.

[Nargan]

I can't decide if Astronaut Teemo or Gentleman Cho'gath is the best skin in the game. Cottontail Teemo is also definitely in the top ten.

Gentleman Cho. By a long shot. Otherwise, why would I buy him? ^.~

[SlyGuyMcFly]

I agree Gentleman Cho is probably the best skin currently out there. Riot Singed is very cool too in my book. As is Commando Jarvan. It's M. Bison by way of Unreal Tournament.

[Eldariel]

Mundo orchestrated a hostile takeover on the title of "best skin" long ago. Doesn't matter if it's impossible, Mundo does what he pleases.

[Daverin]

Mundo orchestrated a hostile takeover on the title of "best skin" long ago. Doesn't matter if it's impossible, Mundo does what he pleases.

Gotta go with Eld on this one. So many awesome skins, but Corporate Mundo takes the cake. And the company.

[Lix Lorn]

You seem to have mis-spelt Frosted Ezreal.

Three times.
Fixed that for you, honey. :smallwink:

[Dogmantra]

Fixed that for you, honey. :smallwink:

I never did teach you how to type properly, did I sweetie?

:smallwink:

[Qaera]

Fixed that for you, honey. :smallwink:

/agreed. One of the few skins I've considered buying. But Dog and I have already had this conversation. :J

~ ♅

[Lix Lorn]

I never did teach you how to type properly, did I sweetie?

:smallwink:
You didn't have to, I knew. :smallwink:


/agreed. One of the few skins I've considered buying. But Dog and I have already had this conversation. :J

~ ♅
It's hard being Frosted Ezreal. It's hard and nobody understands.

In other news, I played a normal game and carried the game! Annie, 5/1/3, killed who knows how many turrets, had friendly conversation with the Morgana I obliterated repeatedly, and caused a surrender at 25 mins with 7 towers down to none.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Talon getting his mana regen cut almost in half hurts. Hurts real bad.

I had to get a Philostone, but then I turned it into a Shurelia's and used it + Ghostblade to enter Sprint Mode.

"I guess I just can't exhaust Talon... wtf..."
"I have Sprint."

[toasty]

Talon getting his mana regen cut almost in half hurts. Hurts real bad.

I had to get a Philostone, but then I turned it into a Shurelia's and used it + Ghostblade to enter Sprint Mode.

"I guess I just can't exhaust Talon... wtf..."
"I have Sprint."

Really?

All the talons i played with destroyed people.

Though, maybe it was the Fiddle+Talon+morgana+Taric combo... :smallbiggrin:

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Really?

All the talons i played with destroyed people.

Though, maybe it was the Fiddle+Talon+morgana+Taric combo... :smallbiggrin:

I guess I should say hurts his early lane. I still destroyed people (10/2/10), but it was inconvenient to get started.

[tribble]

I guess I should say hurts his early lane. I still destroyed people (10/2/10), but it was inconvenient to get started.

God forbid an assasin who is also good at pushing should have to manage their mana in the early laning phase.:smallannoyed:

[Draken]

In their defense, people got really coddled by his humongous regens.

Hell, it is surprising that they were left as they were for as long as they did (10 mana regen at level one, wat).

[toasty]

God forbid an assasin who is also good at pushing should have to manage their mana in the early laning phase.:smallannoyed:

people don't like Assassins in solo queue. Kassadin received what seem to me token buffs (buffs, but not enough to make a difference) and suddenly everyone is playing him again. And you know what? I'm banning him. Not because he's good, but because in solo queue, an 3-0-0 Kassadin is godmode.

[Spartacus]

As always, I am late to the party, but Definitely Not Blitzcrank has the best skin, and better yet, it's his default!

[Silverraptor]

So, I bought renekton awhile ago and just didn't seem to know how to play him well. It hit me just now to do Trimogs Impaler on him. It worked beautifully!:smallbiggrin:

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt255/silverraptor_photo/Screenshots/044.png

I also witnessed first hand how scary Skarner is now.:smalleek:

[TechnOkami]

I also witnessed first hand how scary Skarner is now.:smalleek:

I approve of this message. :smallbiggrin:

[ArcanistSupreme]

So, I bought renekton awhile ago and just didn't seem to know how to play him well. It hit me just now to do Trimogs Impaler on him. It worked beautifully!:smallbiggrin:

I like playing him on Twisted Treeline. Wriggles, CD boots, Ghostblade, Spirit Visage, Sunfire or Frozen Mallet, Last Whisper, GG. Mostly cheap, and unless the other team gets super fed you will roll over the top of them consistently throughout the game.