Retraining - can you retrain class given feats?

[tundrawalker1]

Hey there. Simple question. Can a player retrain out a feat that their class gives them in place of something else?

For instance, I am going to be building a Ranger/Scout for a very low powered game we are about to play. The Ranger gives the feat Endurance for free. Can that feat be retrained out for something the ranger qualifies for, and in this case, Many Shot?

There is a discussion in our group that the only feats that can be retrained are feats that you select and as this Endurance feat is not selected, it is integral to the class and therefore cannot be retrained.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

[Apophis]

Nope. According to the PHB2, you can only get rid of feats that you selected. Feats given to you by classes don't count.

[Flickerdart]

For the PHB classes, you can usually find a few ACFs that trade the feat out. Ranger can give that Endurance away for +5 to Move Silently 1/2 level/day, get Sending, or Heat Endurance.

[Ernir]

Retraining (you're talking about the PHB2 retraining options, right?) is there to undo poor/obsolete selections. You can't retrain a class-granted feat to a feat that wouldn't have been an available option in the first place.

To get rid of Endurance and take another feat in its place, Google "Dark Chaos Shuffle".

[Keegan__D]

Feat retraining only applies when you have a choice, including fighter bonus feats, a ranger's combat style, or the scout's bonus feats (and more).

If the description said "Gains the Endurance feat unless he already has it. In which case, he chooses any other feat he qualifies for." like the Healer, then he could have Endurance chosen as a lvl 1 feat, choose something else, then retrain Endurance.
You may be able to argue that such wording wasn't implemented in the PHB, but added in to other books. This is a slim argument, and is more likely to cost points to your side, since they're different writers.

[Hiro Protagonest]

To get rid of Endurance and take another feat in its place, Google "Dark Chaos Shuffle".

That always sounds like something out of Yugioh.