[Pathfinder] (Another) Fighter & Monk fix

[Zagaroth]

EDIT: Moving entire thread over to here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219537)

Expect further updates at that location, not this

[Hiro Protagonest]

So... why isn't this in Homebrew again?

Also, just give fighters the whole archery deal with Point Blank Shot.

And this'll mess up Archetypes, keep Armor and Weapon Training as is.

[Zagaroth]

Well, it'd move up archetype's abilities to match, and then the archetype would get more weapon/armor training increases later usually.

But anyway, sorry, I didn't realize there was a homebrew forum sitting outside the "Roleplaying games" section. hrrm, not the best way to subforum that I think, but maybe that's just the way my brain works.

Anyway, should I repost there, or wait for a Mod to move this thread?

[McToomin]

3) Monk AC becomes +1 every level, not every 4 levels

Holy crap. Probably need to tone this one down.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Holy crap. Probably need to tone this one down.

Why? That's the rate that fighter, barbarian, and other martial classes get attack bonus. AC is notorious for being worthless at high levels since every brute's full attack bonus hits you on a 2.

[McToomin]

Meh, just my .02$. Just sounded kind of outlandish at first. I guess I see your point.

[magwaaf]

i haven't played one yet but fighters look really good in pathfinder with the mass amount of feats and the other bonuses they get

i do like the monk idea byt maybe an AC bonus every other level... +1 per level is alot

[Zagaroth]

just as an FYI, I moved the post to here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219537)


Editing top post now

[Big Fau]

1: Fighters don't need more feats. They need better feats, and class features that help them overcome their weaknesses.

2: Your changes to the Monk are barely different from PF's initial changes. The class is still a pile of random, and all you've done is increased the numbers.


3: Most importantly, numbers are not the problem with these classes (well, the Monk has some damage problems, but that's not the point). Increasing numbers does not fix the class.

[magwaaf]

but that's jsut it, they have an f ton of new feats and expanded feats that a fighter is even more customieable than ever and now they dont have to worry about armor feats really

[Big Fau]

but that's jsut it, they have an f ton of new feats and expanded feats that a fighter is even more customieable than ever and now they dont have to worry about armor feats really

Having seen the feats Paizo has made, all I can say is "They haven't fixed a damn thing about them, all they've done is added more of them".

Again, more feats are not the solution. Beter feats are. Feats like Weapon Focus (one of the Fighter's "primary class features") are uninteresting and ultimately useless outside of prerequisites (unlike in 4E, where those feats are practically required to keep up).

[Zagaroth]

OK, not going to discuss fighter ATM because I'm rewriting it now, though a lot of what I have there will stay. And I'd rather carry on the discussion on the above linked thread, as it's my understanding that's where it should be.

Now, onto monk. You are mostly right in saying that I just gave them more (and please see the other thread, which I have linked to twice, and where I have provided a tabled, more organized, and more upgraded monk.), but I did so keeping in mind 2 considerations.

1) I want this upgrade to be easily playable for less skilled optimizers who want to play a monk because it's cool and they don't want to figure out things like which maneuvers to pick etc. Thus not giving them anything spectacularly new int he way of active abilities.

2) I want them to be survivable and useful.

Even so, I've made the monk much more customizable. An INT based monk is going to have a lot more skill points, probably useful ranks in knowledge, and flavor wise is going to play out as an analytical pugilist.

Wisdom based monks are zen masters etc, we all know this one

and CHA monks are Determinators (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Determinator), will probably select skills to match.

Now you can dump 2 mental stats pretty easily if you want to OP (focusing on INT alone), Reducing MAD slightly, and now being able to do what you are ment to do. Go up an Hit stuff. And at 12th level, D-door behind the BBEG and Flurrying him. Hmm, considering a new ability at a lower level that would allow a charge + flurry at the cost of a Ki point. D-door has more range and skips obstacles of course.

In other words, I'm keeping them a cool, hard to hit bad-ass unarmed fighter with some nifty abilities, only I'm backing up their flavor with a little more crunch.