Fighter Cookie-Cutter

[Northener]

Since I posted this in the wrong section... Here we go again

Hello my fellow tabletop players!

I'm in the midst of creating a fighter.. I know... I know... before you pummel me with "but it's sooo easy" or "are you stupid?"... Let me clarify!

I've played the same, boring, sword and board fighter most of my DnD career. I need something more exciting.. something that makes ogres cry and dragons bow to me.

Do you have any suggestion for a build I could use. We use the 36 point system, and a variety of allowed books. Post what you think I should look into, even just a few pointers.

Thanks in advance, and please.. only serious postings, I don't feed trolls.

[Hiro Protagonest]

You could've just reported the thread to have it moved here from Homebrew.

Anyway, do you have Tome of Battle? Because warblade and crusader are better than fighter at every fighting style. Although it depends on whatever the full casters are doing.

Shield bashing is the most effective way to do sword n' board. Take Improved Shield Bash, plus Agile Shield Fighter from PHBII. Also, Bashing enchantment gives you the equivalent of +2 to damage, which is worse than just enchanting it as a +2 weapon, but it's cheaper to enchant it as a +1 bashing shield and a +1 weapon. CWar has a couple shield bashing feats as well.

[Tokuhara]

Race: Gorebrute Shifter (Races of Eberron)
Class: Dungeoncrasher Fighter 6/Warmind 10/Kensei 4

Non-PrC feats (All Fighter Feats!!!): Powerful Charge, Greater Powerful Charge, Power Attack, Improved Natural Weapon (Gore), Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper

What you do:

Turn 1: Shift and smack
Turn 2: Charge into Bull Rush. Your bull rush does 2d8 (Gtr Powerful Charge) + 2d6 (Gore) + 8d6 (Dungeoncrasher)
Turn 3: Repeat Turn 2. Over and over and over again

[Little Brother]

If you want to make dragons/etc. cry, fighter isn't the way you're gonna wanna go. The dragon has too many "No" buttons. I''d, personally, recommend either a Warblade, Crusader, or a melee-focused bard if you want a similar feel. Maybe even a Bardblade. It's just that fighters are so bad. Especially straight fighter. Fighter is really a two level class, and even then not that common. You're probably gonna get this from everyone else here

Think about it.

If you can't/don't want to use any of those, this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415) is the most help I can really give.

EDIT: Swordsage'd

[Northener]

Well Jade, some of us are new to this... as in I signed up... *looks at time* about 30 minutes ago? And are unaware of how stuff works in around and the forums.

That being said, thank you both for the information, making a list of what people suggest to me. Both are great addons!

[Keld Denar]

Stuff we need:

Books available
ECL range you anticipate starting and ending at (1-20, 5-8, 16 only, etc)
General description of rest of party, including numbers
Estimated power level you wish to reach (do you want to sunder the moon in a single attack, or keep to a nice safe 5-10 HP per level curve)
Party role goals (damage dealer, tank, controller, a little of everything?)

And lastly, HOW attached to the actual Fighter class are you? How do you feel about multiclassing? PrCs? Playing something that fights, but doesn't actually contain levels of Fighter?

If you give us these details, we can be a TON more helpful.

Otherwise, here's Person_Man's Guide to Melee Combos (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026). Pick 2-3 things out of there. Happy shopping!

[Northener]

If you want to make dragons/etc. cry, fighter isn't the way you're gonna wanna go. The dragon has too many "No" buttons. I''d, personally, recommend either a Warblade, Crusader, or a melee-focused bard if you want a similar feel. Maybe even a Bardblade. It's just that fighters are so bad. Especially straight fighter. Fighter is really a two level class, and even then not that common. You're probably gonna get this from everyone else here

Think about it.

If you can't/don't want to use any of those, this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415) is the most help I can really give.

EDIT: Swordsage'd

To be honest, I'm a melee focused type of player. I tried the rogue, the bard, and the cleric, but I'll admit, I enjoy simple. Fighter just fits my personality the most out of all the different classes. I know fighter straight on can be unexciting, and I agree, it does get boring. But I'm looking for a variety of things to add to the fighter role such as the ones mentioned above :)

[Northener]

Stuff we need:

Books available
ECL range you anticipate starting and ending at (1-20, 5-8, 16 only, etc)
General description of rest of party, including numbers
Estimated power level you wish to reach (do you want to sunder the moon in a single attack, or keep to a nice safe 5-10 HP per level curve)
Party role goals (damage dealer, tank, controller, a little of everything?)

And lastly, HOW attached to the actual Fighter class are you? How do you feel about multiclassing? PrCs? Playing something that fights, but doesn't actually contain levels of Fighter?

If you give us these details, we can be a TON more helpful.

Otherwise, here's Person_Man's Guide to Melee Combos (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026). Pick 2-3 things out of there. Happy shopping!

Allowed Books:

Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
Complete Champion
Complete Divine
Complete Mage
Complete Scoundrel
Complete Warrior
Draconomicon
Dragon Magic
Dungeon Masters Guide 1
Dungeon Masters Guide 2
Heroes of Light
Miniatures Handbook
Monster Manual 1
Players Handbook 1
Players Handbook 2
Ravenloft Players Handbook
Unearthed Arcana
Van Richten’s Aresenal

The party can literally be vast, I can't say for sure what it will consist of as it switches from table to table, from player to player.

I'm looking for a build from starting level 5, and you can just suggest the level progression or simply state the starting point and I can figure out the rest as I level.

I'm pretty attached to Fighter, since it's the class I'm the most familiar with, other than Barbarian. But like I said, I'm totally willing to divert and take extra classes if it works for your build. Always open for new ideas.

Power level: I want to hit PC's and NPC's alike HARD, even if it's reckless. As for role, I prefer the tank or at least support tank/damage dealer

[Keld Denar]

Any racial preferences? Weapon preferences?

You could be a fun debuffer by using a Greatclub, taking Three Mountains (Complete Warrior), and taking the Zhentarum Fighter (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/) ACF while amping up your Intimidate. Leave your foes nausiated and scared while Power Attacking for big pain. Sadly, you don't have the book Drow of the Underdark for Imperious Command, which turns Intimidate into godmode, but you can do fine without it.

For the biggest benefit at this level, I'd suggest building Barbarian1/Fighter4 (in that order). This gives you a slightly stronger starting HD and some more skill points, something a Fighter normally lacks. You also get Rage 1/day, which is nice for boss fights or other big scary things (or you could take Extra Rage in Complete Warrior for more uses/day). The Spirit Lion Totem ACF in Complete Champion gives your fighter the Pounce ability (instead of fast movement), which will be more useful once you hit 6th level and get your 2nd iterative.

I have a really interesting Dwarf Urgrosh build lying around, if you are interested in it. It multiclasses like crazy (like Ranger1/Fighter2/Barbarian2/Deepwarden2/ExoticWeaponMaster1/OccultSlayer5/PiousTemplar7), and while you lack Races of Stone for Deepwarden (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=4), its available online on the wizards website. Its very dwarfy and very tanky while still being offensive. Completely dependant only on Str and Con, which makes for equipping him easy. VERY hard to kill, especially if you itemize well.

[Lateral]

Your group should really look into getting Tome of Battle, if you're feeling bored with basic hit, hit, hit again combat. Crusader or Warblade is your best bet for a tank build.

Otherwise, if you're wanting to do serious damage, one of the above Dungeoncrasher builds is your best bet. Another interesting thing you could do would be to go about building a tripper build; the tactics are a little different from your standard face-smashing fighter, but they're great tanks. You can look at the Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415) for inspiration; you have far more books available, though, so you have even more options. I see Miniatures Handbook is available too; unfortunately, there's no good way to be Large from your race in those books, but you can always enter War Hulk as a Wolf Totem Barbarian 2/ Fighter 3 (or Fighter 2/Ranger 1) if you hire a caster to Permanency an Enlarge Person on you. Something like Wolf Totem Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/Ranger 1/War Hulk 10/Whatever 5. Take Knock-Down and Combat Reflexes (have a good DEX score, too), wield a reach weapon, and be Large all the time; your tactics are to charge into the midst of enemies, knock 'em all over, then lock 'em down in your reach so that they can't escape and suck two attacks to the face every time they try to get up. Take the Mage Slayer line, too, so that casters can't escape either.

[Tokuhara]

Any racial preferences? Weapon preferences?

You could be a fun debuffer by using a Greatclub, taking Three Mountains (Complete Warrior), and taking the Zhentarum Fighter (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/) ACF while amping up your Intimidate. Leave your foes nausiated and scared while Power Attacking for big pain. Sadly, you don't have the book Drow of the Underdark for Imperious Command, which turns Intimidate into godmode, but you can do fine without it.

Here, you could even make it an Aptitude Greatclub and combo it with Lightning Mace

[Lateral]

You could be a fun debuffer by using a Greatclub, taking Three Mountains (Complete Warrior), and taking the Zhentarum Fighter (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/) ACF while amping up your Intimidate. Leave your foes nausiated and scared while Power Attacking for big pain. Sadly, you don't have the book Drow of the Underdark for Imperious Command, which turns Intimidate into godmode, but you can do fine without it.

Hmm. The wording of Three Mountains doesn't require you to necessarily do any damage. You could activate the nausea off of a hit with, say, Stormguard Warrior (Combat Rhythm).

[Keld Denar]

Right, but I was talking about using the penalties to AC that come with nausia and shaken to safely PA for higher numbers. Sometimes you don't have to buff your to-hit, you just have to debuff your foe's AC. Three Mountains and Zhent Fighter get it done. Also, those conditions debuff saves, making it easier for friendly casters to land their spells of mass destruction.

[gbprime]

If you're not attached to the fighter class, a Swashbuckler/Rogue makes an excellent damage dealer. the Daring Outlaw feat (Complete Scoundrel) is what makes it all go, as you get sneak attack dice from both classes. Two small weapons is all you need, and jump into two-weapon fighting, if you're flanking someone you're dealing amazing damage. (Even to undead if you take the Death's Ruin Rogue ability in Complete Champion)

And the Swashbuckler/Rogue has plenty of options for spending the tons of skill points you'll have, so you can be something other than the Wall of Meat (TM).

http://www.reapermini.com/pages/figure_finder_image.php?sku=02884_concept.jpg&image=3

[Eldariel]

Barbarian 2/Ranger 2/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berserker -> would probably have you covered far as dealing damage goes. Most of your resources should of course be directed at making that DC 20 Will-save with a roll of 1 and not failing on natural 1s 'cause killing your party is bad. Alternatively, you could just burn all your Frenzy-uses each morning while bound so you're not at risk of it later in the day; the class gives you the Power Attack multipliers and some miscellaneous stuff even without Frenzy.

But with just Shock Trooper & Leap Attack (no Pounce), level 11 you'd have:
11 BAB (66 damage with full Leap Power Attack Charge)
~26 Strength (30 in Rage)
Guisarme

You'd be able to deal:
2d4 + 15 Str + 66 Power Attack = Average 86 damage per charge.

It would be possible to go higher than this but judging by your party, that seems unwise. You'd also be a decent Tripper (massive Strength, free Improved Trip from being a Wolf totem Barbarian (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wolfTotemClassFeatures ) & reach with Guisarme) for some area control and could pick up Combat Reflexes. You'd also have Rapid Shot from Ranger and given decent Dex, could wreak quite the havoc with a Strength +15 Bow as necessary. Even more with Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ) (tho you need Extra Rage at least once to have enough uses of it daily). And your stand-up combat isn't bad with trips, and 3 attacks and some room for Power Attack that's quite efficient for you.

EDIT: And if you feel Frenzied Berserker isn't the thing for you, just going Fighter 10 with Zhentarim Fighter Substitutions (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) is indeed perfectly good. Rest of the stuff would remain the same; Ranger 2/Barbarian 2/Fighter 10. After that you'd do whatever though I doubt your game would go that long.

But the same first 6 levels, and again Rapid Shot from Ranger and Improved Trip from Barbarian. Leap Attack Shock Trooper as feats OR Pounce from Barbarian; getting both would probably make a low optimization group cry foul.

[herrhauptmann]

Here's an alternative for you...

Jack B Quick (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869062/6_hits_to_1:_Jack_B._Quick)
Jotunbrud from PGtF (or races of faerun) will give you a +4 to trip/disarm. It is not powerful build. It has no effect on weapon size. Not on your book list.

Now, if your DM allows you to alter specific weapons, here's what you need.
Take the lifedrinker from the DMG, and make it into a 1 handed weapon. Sword, hand axe, whatever you're using. Better yet, get two of them.
Before you do that though, you need Deathward: Either as the spell, as deathward armor (MiC), as Soulfire Armor (BoED). Or some other form of immunity to negative energy.

If that doesn't work, there's a whole host of other enchantments you can throw onto your weapons that don't deal straight hitpoint damage.
Some work on a hit, and have no save, others allow a save. Some require a crit, and may or may not allow a save.
Some of those saves scale with your level, most do not.
If you load up on the right ones, you'll find that after a full attack sequence, your enemy will then be shaken, dazed, sickened, with bleeding wounds, negative levels, and stat damage. :)
At that point, who cares if you only did 1d8+9 damage at level 14?

Even if some of those enchantments allow a (low) save, with Jack B Quick, you'll be hitting them so often that they should roll a 1 or 2 within 3 rounds.
I've got a partial list of them lying around, if you want it, ask and I'll dig it up.

Keld Denar's Dwarven Flurry Fury build he's got is pretty decent. But if your DM thinks its lame/cheesy to take a second PrC before you've finished the first, you could have some troubles.

[Keld Denar]

Here's the dwarf build I mentioned. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19864142/Urgosh_Optimization?post_id=338164714)

[Darrin]

Here's the dwarf build I mentioned. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19864142/Urgosh_Optimization?post_id=338164714)

And here is the GREAT Club (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49522) build you mentioned in passing, or at least a rough outline of it.

Here's a TWF Dwarven Waraxe build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12043058&postcount=9) I did a few days ago, which I think fits everything on your source list.

The best methods to make the world cower before you as a fighter:

1) The bog-standard PA/IBR/Shock Trooper/Leap Attack Ubercharger. Simple, straight-forward, but gets boring or heavily nerfed very quickly.
2) Jack B. Quick (http://http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869062/6_hits_to_1:_Jack_B._Quick) AoO-spamming
3) Fear/Demoralize optimization, although I think Shneekey's Takahashi No Onisan (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=153726) (a samurai build) is one of the scarier examples.
4) Dungeon-Crashing Flaming-Homer-style (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4108954&postcount=22), but no Dungeonscape.
5) Chain-Tripper Lockdown... I'm having trouble finding any recent examples, but there are a variety of "Flavors" depending on whether ToB or Psionics are available.

[Gwendol]

Dungeoncrasher fighter is a solid option, especially if you can get Enlarged from time to time. Combine with Shock trooper and knock-down and you'll get plenty of new options.

Another suggestion is to play a Knight (PHB II). They have some unique class features while still being fairly straightforward to play. Again, PersonMan has a very good guide you can explore.

My suggestion would be Human Knight 5

STR 16
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 14

Feats:
Combat reflexes (Human bonus feat)
Exotic weapon: Spiked chain (1st level)
Mage slayer (3rd level)
Stand still (flaw: Shaky)
Power attack (flaw: Inattentive)
Mounted combat (class bonus)
Ride-by-attack (class level 5 bonus)

Class abilities:
Knight’s code: won’t strike flatfooted, helpless creatures
Knight’s challenge 4/day
Fighting challenge (ex): +1
Test of mettle: Will save DC14 or attack knight over others
Shield block: +1 AC against designated foe
Bulwark of defence: threatened area treated as difficult terrain
Medium armor mastery (move at full speed in medium armor)
Vigilant defender (Tumble DC increase with lvl)