Nale's nonchalance

[martianmister]

I really like how Nale just doesn't give a damn (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0810.html) to appearing of Malack (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0811.html). He is Tarquin's son (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218289) after all...

[Eakin]

I really like how Nale just doesn't give a damn (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0810.html) to appearing of Malack (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0811.html). He is Tarquin's son (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218289) after all...

The man has a fantastic poker face, I'll give him that

[Ancalagon]

The nonchalance will vanish if he realises Malack is just at getting his soul destroyed or eaten.

I guess Malack has a Fate Worse Than Death for Nale in stock.

[Tass]

The man has a fantastic poker face, I'll give him that

He feels safe because he knows he can dimension door away. After he realizes he could die from the quickened inflict before he gets to cast he is not so cocky.

[Deceptive]

Nale was never the type to freak out in a situation. Remember, when Sabine got angry at him for being alone with Haley and Elan crashed through the window, he asked in an annoyed tone why things like that never unravel bit by bit. If he didn't have such a big reaction then, he isn't likely to freak out at a snake in a dark cloak.

[TheNovak]

Do we know for a fact that it was Nale who killed Malak's children? Because while Nale's nonchalance would be an epic act of jerkassery if he's the one who killed them, it also might mean that someone else (like, y'know, Tarquin) did the deed.

Just a thought. I'm pretty sure that Malak knows for a fact that it was Nale, but I figured I'd float the idea.

[ORione]

Do we know for a fact that it was Nale who killed Malak's children? Because while Nale's nonchalance would be an epic act of jerkassery if he's the one who killed them, it also might mean that someone else (like, y'know, Tarquin) did the deed.

Just a thought. I'm pretty sure that Malak knows for a fact that it was Nale, but I figured I'd float the idea.

What do you mean by "know for a fact"? We haven't actually seen Nale kill Malack's children, so in that sense we don't know for sure. Our main evidence is that Tarquin told Elan, and Malack seems to hate Nale.

[FujinAkari]

Just a thought. I'm pretty sure that Malak knows for a fact that it was Nale, but I figured I'd float the idea.

It is a pretty implausible theory. 1) Tarquin has no reason to want to turn Malak against Nale (Nale started the revolution, Tarquin wanted them to rule together, remember?)

2) Tarquin is WAY too scheming and careful to lie about something as important as that to someone who has "discern lie" as a class ability :P

[sims796]

It is a pretty implausible theory. 1) Tarquin has no reason to want to turn Malak against Nale (Nale started the revolution, Tarquin wanted them to rule together, remember?)

2) Tarquin is WAY too scheming and careful to lie about something as important as that to someone who has "discern lie" as a class ability :P

That last sentence got me chuckling a bit.

[Ashadar]

Actually Nale is even more nonchalant than his father as evidenced by this case and the one way back when he lied to Celia about being turned to stone for a hundred years. He practically looks death in the face and still acts like a jerk. I don't think he was quite sure he'd survive, he looks pretty surprised when he says : "I'm still alive" .

I'll have to admit, of all the things I was expecting Nale to do as a first reaction to seeing Malack, this was most certainly not one of them.

[Mutant Sheep]

Nale is mean. Thus, he can keep a straight face when doing mean things. Being a guy with magical teleporting powers doesn't hurt either.:smalltongue:There are about 6 different "Nale" threads right now, can we please not do this?

[ORione]

Actually Nale is even more nonchalant than his father as evidenced by this case and the one way back when he lied to Celia about being turned to stone for a hundred years. He practically looks death in the face and still acts like a jerk. I don't think he was quite sure he'd survive, he looks pretty surprised when he says : "I'm still alive" .

I'll have to admit, of all the things I was expecting Nale to do as a first reaction to seeing Malack, this was most certainly not one of them.

Hmm. I suppose if you're sure you're about to die, you might as well taunt the person killing you.

[DreadArchon]

I find it plausible that Nale may not have been involved in killing the children.

It's also possible that the children were killed and then rez'ed, but Malak is just bitter about the gesture. :smallbiggrin:

[TheNovak]

It is a pretty implausible theory. 1) Tarquin has no reason to want to turn Malak against Nale (Nale started the revolution, Tarquin wanted them to rule together, remember?)

2) Tarquin is WAY too scheming and careful to lie about something as important as that to someone who has "discern lie" as a class ability :P

Not too implausable, I think. Perhaps Tarquin was worried that Malak's kids would pose some threat to his plans? Or that Malak might want to get out of the game eventually to raise them?

(Like, raise as in rear, not Raise Dead.)

Also, as smart as Tarquin might be, he's a sucker for dramatic reveals. Being able to tell Malak that he killed his children as he suddenly and inevitably betrays him would make for a very memorable scene.

All that said, I don't actually believe that Nale wasn't responsible, but I thought the hypothesis was worth running up the flagpole.

[Ashadar]

Why does everyone keep assigning evil cliches to Tarquin just because he's an evil ruler? Exactly what part of how he treats his family and friends leads you to believe he'd kill the children of one of his best friends? He obviously doesn't give a damn about anyone else besides his friends or family, but the man most certainly doesn't consider himself evil. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy that would betray one of his friends. Also he's lawful evil, he wouldn't lie about stuff like this.

And by the way.. Nale wouldn't ask about the family if he didn't know his children were dead. What possible reason would he have to ask about the family, knowing they are enemies?

[Psyren]

People want to set up a "Nale didn't really kill Malack's family" scenario, because that will remove the biggest barrier to Malack joining the LG and eventually facing off against Durkon. His betrayal would carry a lot more emotional impact than even Hilgya showing up again.

[VanBuren]

People want to set up a "Nale didn't really kill Malack's family" scenario, because that will remove the biggest barrier to Malack joining the LG and eventually facing off against Durkon. His betrayal would carry a lot more emotional impact than even Hilgya showing up again.

But if Elan ends up taking on his father, they'll probably end up fighting anyway. There's no need to throw Malack into the LG.

[Zmflavius]

It's also possible that the children were killed and then rez'ed, but Malak is just bitter about the gesture. :smallbiggrin:

If Roy's brother is anything to judge by, children don't come back all that often, because they're having too much fun.

[ORione]

If Roy's brother is anything to judge by, children don't come back all that often, because they're having too much fun.

If they're in a Good afterlife.

[Peelee]

I find it plausible that Nale may not have been involved in killing the children.


There's also the possibility that Nale was directly responsible for the death of the kids, but simply doesn't know it for some reason. This would make Tarquin's statement completely true, and both Malack's righteous fury and Nale's comment both still make complete sense, in context. Nale's comment wouldn't have the vicious sting to it, but he would still believe Malack's rage was directed at his betrayal, if Nale doesn't realize his hand in the children's death (or even know of their deaths; again, his line would still make perfect sense).

There's also the issue of motive. Even in the dungeon of Dorukan, the LG could have taken out the guardians simply for the XP, or to prevent them from realizing the LG was evil, and relaying such information to the OotS. Both are somewhat flimsy, and it's likely he just had them killed for the sake of being evil, but every other killing Nale has done has had motive behind it (such as framing Elan and taking his place). It's kinda hard to imagine him killing three kids just for the hell of being evil. Though arguably, he could have done it to try to throw Malack off his game before his coup attempt, to swing things in his favor.

Regardless, I still fully believe Nale killed the kids and knows it, and his line was an evil and bitter jab at Malack. If that turns out to not be the case, I think the theory I just posited makes more sense than Tarquin simply lying about it

[Peelee]

Why does everyone keep assigning evil cliches to Tarquin just because he's an evil ruler? Exactly what part of how he treats his family and friends leads you to believe he'd kill the children of one of his best friends? He obviously doesn't give a damn about anyone else besides his friends or family, but the man most certainly doesn't consider himself evil

....you're joking, right? I agreed with you on almost every point, but that statement is just..... what?!?

[Nevereatcars]

If they're in a Good afterlife.

Hard to have an alignment as an infant... hmm. quandary.

[Dr.Epic]

I really like how Nale just doesn't give a damn (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0810.html) to appearing of Malack (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0811.html). He is Tarquin's son (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218289) after all...

I think it's funnier how he doesn't act at all phased and then Malack nearly kills him.:smallbiggrin:

[martianmister]

I think it's funnier how he doesn't act at all phased and then Malack nearly kills him.:smallbiggrin:


What? :smallconfused:

[Psyren]

What? :smallconfused:

"Malack. How's the family? BY ALL THE NORTHERN GODS HE TORE 90% OF MY SOUL OUT THROUGH MY RECTUM"

[Ashadar]

....you're joking, right? I agreed with you on almost every point, but that statement is just..... what?!?

Er.. Perhaps I misspoke. He does consider himself the "evil overlord" that will some day be twarthed by a protagonist, but he said it himself, he considers evil and good to be outdated concepts. When Elan hinted at Tarquin killing him because he's evil, Tarquin clearly said he does not consider he falls into the category his son exposes and he has no reason to hurt him because he cares for him. I suspect the same is true about Malack as well.

[with an e]

People want to set up a "Nale didn't really kill Malack's family" scenario, because that will remove the biggest barrier to Malack joining the LG and eventually facing off against Durkon. His betrayal would carry a lot more emotional impact than even Hilgya showing up again.
Alternatively, it provides a quick solution to a plot thread that viewers may want resolved. Scenario:
Tarquin set up a structure that requires the clandestine cooperation of three empires. He maintains this structure because they are controlled by his trusted adventuring party members. If he betrays one, and it is revealed, then the trust between these movers is gone. Thus, if Tarquin really betrayed Malack, then it would be possible to unravel Tarquin's plan without an extended sidequest through all of the Western Continent.

[martianmister]

"Malack. How's the family? BY ALL THE NORTHERN GODS HE TORE 90% OF MY SOUL OUT THROUGH MY RECTUM"

If you're talking about the fourth panel, it's understable for him to act like that, like what Tarquin did in the fourth panel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0756.html). That's not make him someone in a panicked state like you suggest. He was surprisingly calm and nonchalant in this strip.

[Jaros]

I have a pretty crazy theory myself: Nale's a jackass

[ORione]

I have a pretty crazy theory myself: Nale's a jackass

What's your evidence for that theory?

[martianmister]

I have a pretty crazy theory myself: Nale's a jackass

Isn't that canon? :smallconfused:


What's your evidence for that theory?

First panel... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0071.html)

[VanBuren]

What's your evidence for that theory?

Everything he's ever said and done at any point during the strip.

[Psyren]

If you're talking about the fourth panel, it's understable for him to act like that, like what Tarquin did in the fourth panel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0756.html). That's not make him someone in a panicked state like you suggest. He was surprisingly calm and nonchalant in this strip.

Actually, I was just translating his reaction to the Harm spell into words; I wasn't making a commentary on his mental state.

[Peelee]

Er.. Perhaps I misspoke. He does consider himself the "evil overlord" that will some day be twarthed by a protagonist, but he said it himself, he considers evil and good to be outdated concepts. When Elan hinted at Tarquin killing him because he's evil, Tarquin clearly said he does not consider he falls into the category his son exposes and he has no reason to hurt him because he cares for him. I suspect the same is true about Malack as well.

Ahhh. Much more understandable. Sorry bout that, I just couldn't wrap my head around the comment at first. Elaboration definitely helped.

[Peelee]

I find it plausible that Nale may not have been involved in killing the children.

It's also possible that the children were killed and then rez'ed, but Malak is just bitter about the gesture. :smallbiggrin:

If Roy's brother is anything to judge by, children don't come back all that often, because they're having too much fun.

Hard to have an alignment as an infant... hmm. quandary.

Just realized, why do we instantly assume Malack's kids were, well, kids? If I remember, Tarquin just said Nale killed three of Malack's sons, with no indication of age. They could have been fully grown, and Nale could have had legitimate reason to kill them (such as Malack's kids being evil and trying to kill Nale under the table). As much as I hate throwing more crackpot theory fuel into the raging conflagration that is this playground, it just makes me wonder why nobody's addressed this before

[ORione]

Just realized, why do we instantly assume Malack's kids were, well, kids? If I remember, Tarquin just said Nale killed three of Malack's sons, with no indication of age. They could have been fully grown, and Nale could have had legitimate reason to kill them (such as Malack's kids being evil and trying to kill Nale under the table). As much as I hate throwing more crackpot theory fuel into the raging conflagration that is this playground, it just makes me wonder why nobody's addressed this before

Three of his children. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0724.html)

[VanBuren]

Three of his children. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0724.html)

It's not really that much of a stretch that they would be thought of as his children, even once they'd reached maturity.

[ORione]

It's not really that much of a stretch that they would be thought of as his children, even once they'd reached maturity.

Yeah, I suppose you're right. It's a pretty common term for decendants of any age.

[snikrept]

Three of his "children" for a possibly evil priest could also mean constructs or undead minions or something that Nale destroyed. Or even valued parishioners, given the oft-used "my child" term for a devoted follower of a religious figure.

EDIT Given his comments to Durkon and V during the small talk episode though, he'd have to be actively hiding that

[Peelee]

Yeah, it's a pretty thin theory, I think, but is plausible considering that as Malack is likely close to Tarquin's age, his children could conceivably be roughly the same age as Elan/Nale.

Not considering age/maturity differences between Malack's race (whatever that may be, according to other theories) and human, of course.

[Geordnet]

I still can't believe that nobody else seems to have come up with what I see as the simplest explaination:

Nale's scared out of his mind. (A more vulgar term could also be used...)


I mean, seriously. If OotS was more detailed we'd see the blood drain from his face. He says what he does because he's been knocked off his rocker, and it's the only thing he can think of. Same thing with the "I'm still alive" quote, because he doesn't come back to his senses yet. Eventually he snaps out of it around panel 4 or 5 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0811.html), probably from the second shock of dodging Malack's follow-up and/or from Sabine asking if he's OK.


This would account for Nale's actions regardless of the truth behind the death of Malack's children, for it relies only on the one thing we know for certain:
Malack's out for blood. Or soul, possibly. Either way, he's vengeful -and at least Sabine seems to know (and fear) that fact.

[Jaros]

I still can't believe that nobody else seems to have come up with what I see as the simplest explaination:

Nale's scared out of his mind. (A more vulgar term could also be used...)


I mean, seriously. If OotS was more detailed we'd see the blood drain from his face. He says what he does because he's been knocked off his rocker, and it's the only thing he can think of. Same thing with the "I'm still alive" quote, because he doesn't come back to his senses yet. Eventually he snaps out of it around panel 4 or 5 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0811.html), probably from the second shock of dodging Malack's follow-up and/or from Sabine asking if he's OK.


This would account for Nale's actions regardless of the truth behind the death of Malack's children, for it relies only on the one thing we know for certain:
Malack's out for blood. Or soul, possibly. Either way, he's vengeful -and at least Sabine seems to know (and fear) that fact.

I think you just managed to put into words what a quite a few people were thinking. I therefore declare you the winner of this thread, k?

Yeah, every line doesn't need to have a thought out explanation and plot twist or convoluted/extensive motivation behind it. It could still be him being an extremely cold jackass, but in that case I think it would still be because he couldn't think of anything else to say.

[Peelee]

I still can't believe that nobody else seems to have come up with what I see as the simplest explaination:

Nale's scared out of his mind.

I think you just managed to put into words what a quite a few people were thinking. I therefore declare you the winner of this thread

I second that, actually

[martianmister]

I still can't believe that nobody else seems to have come up with what I see as the simplest explaination:

Nale's scared out of his mind. (A more vulgar term could also be used...)


I mean, seriously. If OotS was more detailed we'd see the blood drain from his face. He says what he does because he's been knocked off his rocker, and it's the only thing he can think of. Same thing with the "I'm still alive" quote, because he doesn't come back to his senses yet. Eventually he snaps out of it around panel 4 or 5 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0811.html), probably from the second shock of dodging Malack's follow-up and/or from Sabine asking if he's OK.


This would account for Nale's actions regardless of the truth behind the death of Malack's children, for it relies only on the one thing we know for certain:
Malack's out for blood. Or soul, possibly. Either way, he's vengeful -and at least Sabine seems to know (and fear) that fact.

Uhm, no. He would have, at least, a :smalleek: face if that's the case. His face is clearly shows his nonchalance.

[Jaros]

There's more than one way to be scared. Just because he's keeping a straight face doesn't mean his trousers are clean. Plus the straight face makes the question that much more callous and (imo) therefore funnier.

[Geordnet]

Just because he's keeping a straight face doesn't mean his trousers are clean.

Actually, that's the first thing I thought of... :smallwink:


Also: I don't think the word we're looking for is fear, but Dread.

[Jaros]

There's more than one way to be scared. Just because he's keeping a straight face doesn't mean his trousers are clean. Plus the straight face makes the question that much more callous and (imo) therefore funnier.

Actually, a better way to put this would've been: Nale's scared/shocked (filled with dread), can't think of anything else to say, so nonchalantly asks "how's the family?"

[Geordnet]

Depends on what you mean by 'nonchalant'.



non·cha·lant /ˌnɒnʃəˈlɑnt, ˈnɒnʃəˌlɑnt, -lənt/

adjective
coolly unconcerned, indifferent, or unexcited; casual: His nonchalant manner infuriated me.

If you mean it as in he spoke calmly, perhaps so... But I wouldn't doubt it at all that his voice was quivering.

And he definitely wasn't unconcerned; though acting that way could be a means of coping with terror.

[Gift Jeraff]

I don't know, it's simply funnier if you imagine it as Nale being very casual about being an atrocious monster. Plus, being terrified beyond the capacity for rational thought seems out-of-character for someone with such a high opinion of himself. Nonchalance fits with his "I'm Evil, here's my business card!" personality, and it's a nice follow-up to Elan's "I think he probably gets that a lot." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0724.html) line. In other words, revenge is something he's so used to (dealing and receiving) that even a vengeful, powerful cleric of Death and Destruction about to kill him is nothing unusual.

Also I would think the line would be written as "M-Malack...H-how's the kids?" or something if his voice was indeed quivering.

[Jaros]

If you mean it as in he spoke calmly, perhaps so... But I wouldn't doubt it at all that his voice was quivering.

And he definitely wasn't unconcerned; though acting that way could be a means of coping with terror.

Yeah, I imagined him speaking calmly, but in no way being so internally.

[Joerg]

I don't know, it's simply funnier if you imagine it as Nale being very casual about being an atrocious monster.

IMO, if it had been a taunt, Nale would have had a straight eyebrow and / or an upturned mouth.

[Porthos]

Why does everyone keep assigning evil cliches to Tarquin just because he's an evil ruler? Exactly what part of how he treats his family and friends leads you to believe he'd kill the children of one of his best friends?

Out of curiosity, does the way he treated his wives count?

[yingxuy]

Kinda hard to imagine that he killed three children was the evil of hell. Although it can be said that he could do it before trying to throw off his game, his attempted coup, the swing of things in his favor Malack.