Quick Question: Z?

[Weimann]

How do you pronounce Z? I was taught in school that the letter Z was pronounced "sed", but I almost exclusively hear it pronounced as "see" in TV and such. Is that American, or has the pronunciation shifted?

[THAC0]

I'm American and always pronounce it "Zee." "Zed" is more European, no?

[Scoot]

Yeah, it's different in America than it is in a lot of Europe.

In French we learned it as Zed as well.

[AtlanteanTroll]

I'm American and always pronounce it "Zee." "Zed" is more European, no?

It isn't "Zee" in British English? :smallconfused:

[Icewalker]

I know zed is often used in Canada and Australia. America is all zee to my knowledge though.

[THAC0]

It isn't "Zee" in British English? :smallconfused:

Not being British, I have no idea.

[JoseB]

"Zed" is British and Commonwealth English (the UK, Canada, Australia, etc.).

"Zee" is US English. However, because most of our popular entertainment comes from the US, that is the form of "Z" that we tend to hear in music, TV and movies.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Dragon Ball Zed.

Hehe.

[SDF]

Zed Zed Top

[AtlanteanTroll]

Zed for Zorro.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Zee is American. Zed is everywhere else. Because America rules world culture, almost all references use Zee, but it's pretty much arbitrary.

[Goosefeather]

See also pronunciation of the word 'zebra'. 'Zee-bra' still sounds rather ridiculous to me...

[factotum]

Zed Zed Top

I'm British and I still pronounce that particular band name as Zee Zee Top, because that's what they call themselves! In all other cases "Zed" is the right and proper pronunciation, of course. :smallbiggrin:

[Mando Knight]

See also pronunciation of the word 'zebra'. 'Zee-bra' still sounds rather ridiculous to me...

How else would you pronounce it? Zed-bra? :smallyuk:
:smalltongue:

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I've always said Zee-brah, not, as I assume Goosefeather pronounces it, Zeh-brah.

[Starwulf]

bleh. what about zoos? Zed-oo? Or Zedero? Zedounds?

[Maxios]

I was taught it's zee. This is the first time I heard of zed. And I have to admit, that's very...strange. Zedus? Zed Zed Top? Ozedzedy Osbourne?

[AtlanteanTroll]

Zeus isn't an English word. So it doesn't matter.

[irenicObserver]

Isn't the pronounciation of the letter seperate from the way it sounds in words?

[SDF]

I'm British and I still pronounce that particular band name as Zee Zee Top, because that's what they call themselves! In all other cases "Zed" is the right and proper pronunciation, of course. :smallbiggrin:

I'm pretty flippant about the whole thing. I find it really funny when someone has a serious and strong opinion on the subject of what is the 'correct' way to say something between American and British English.

[Arminius]

I pronounce it Zee, and I am an American. Canadian(and possibly all Commonwealth countries) seem to pronounce it Zed.

[Heliomance]

bleh. what about zoos? Zed-oo? Or Zedero? Zedounds?

You don't say zeeoo, do you? The name of a letter is utterly irrelevant to the sound it makes.

Unless you regularly drink doubleyooater?

[AtlanteanTroll]

You don't say zeeoo, do you? The name of a letter is utterly irrelevant to the sound it makes.

Unless you regularly drink doubleyooater?

The "oo" in Zoo is pronounced (IN AMERICA!) as "Ooooh" as in look at that.

[KenderWizard]

You don't say zeeoo, do you? The name of a letter is utterly irrelevant to the sound it makes.

Unless you regularly drink doubleyooater?

I deeon't kaynow doubleyoohat waiou're teealking aeybout. I aeylways peeronounce ait "zedoo".

Edit: To actually contribute to the conversation: we say "zed" and it is a source of great amusement when Americans say "zee", like when they say tomaeyto and alumin-um. We also say zeh-bra. But we do say "Zee Zee Top" and stuff, because we hear it that way. If I'd seen it written down first, I'd have called it Zed Zed Top.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

...I pronounce Look almost the same as I pronounce Luck, which is in no way the same as I pronounce Zoo. Zoo is, well 'Zooh', while Look is a cross between Luck and L-ooh-k.

Edit: totally off-topic, but a friend and I discovered the secret to typing in an Australian accent: every word has to have an 'a' in it.

Or, should I say "aevery ward has ta have an 'a' aen ait."
Also, you have to capitalize it all. "AEVERY WARD HAS TA HAVE AN 'A' AEN AIT"
It LOOKS Scottish, but it makes reading things in an australian accent so much easier!

[Weimann]

Dragon Ball Zed
Zed Zed Top
Zed for Zorro.These are really how I say it. Otherwise, I'd think it was Dragon Ball C, CC Top and C for Zorro.


You don't say zeeoo, do you? The name of a letter is utterly irrelevant to the sound it makes.

Unless you regularly drink doubleyooater?Exactly.

It seems that zed is an acceptable pronunciation, though, so I shall continue to use it.

[AtlanteanTroll]

These are really how I say it. Otherwise, I'd think it was Dragon Ball C, CC Top and C for Zorro.

What. But ... Word of God is that they are "Zee" ...

[Trazoi]

How do you pronounce Z?
Zed in Australia, although Zee is creeping in. Curse you, Sesame Street!


It LOOKS Scottish, but it makes reading things in an australian accent so much easier!
Not to me. Everything you write normally I read in an Australian accent. :smallwink:

[Dvil]

Zed. You know, the right way to pronounce it :smalltongue:

[AtlanteanTroll]

Zed. You know, the right way to pronounce it :smalltongue:

*says something about and majority rule and the fact that the US hasnearly double the population of Canada, the UK, and Australia combined.*

[SDF]

Zed. You know, the right way to pronounce it :smalltongue:
*nailed it*

I'm pretty flippant about the whole thing. I find it really funny when someone has a serious and strong opinion on the subject of what is the 'correct' way to say something between American and British English.

[Trazoi]

*says something about and majority rule and the fact that the US hasnearly double the population of Canada, the UK, and Australia combined.*
*cough* *cough* India *cough* :smalltongue:

[AtlanteanTroll]

*cough* *cough* India *cough* :smalltongue:
Ah, but India has 25(+) national languages. They don't count. (Bull crap last minute argument.)

[kaomera]

Somehow I was expecting more Johnny the Homicidal Maniac in this thread.

[THAC0]

These are really how I say it. Otherwise, I'd think it was Dragon Ball C, CC Top and C for Zorro.



Now this I'm confused about. "C" and "Z" aren't pronounced the same, even using American pronunciations. "See" vs "Zee"

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Now this I'm confused about. "C" and "Z" aren't pronounced the same, even using American pronunciations. "See" vs "Zee"

Not if you're Swiss. I remember Eldan, I think it was? remarking on the impossibility of distinguishing between s's and z's.

[kaomera]

Now this I'm confused about. "C" and "Z" aren't pronounced the same, even using American pronunciations. "See" vs "Zee"
They're fairly close; depending on accent very close, even.

[_Zoot_]

Ah, but India has 25(+) national languages. They don't count. (Bull crap last minute argument.)

The official language is English, how ever. :smalltongue:

[SaintRidley]

They're fairly close; depending on accent very close, even.

And in some languages they make no phonemic distinction, so it's close enough to where they simply can't distinguish between them at all.

[AtlanteanTroll]

The official language is English, how ever. :smalltongue:

Aren't they ALL the official languages? :smallconfused:

[Goosefeather]

If we're gonna bring in population sizes, 'zed' is also much closer to how the letter is pronounced in French, German and Spanish (and possibly many more languages, but I wouldn't know!) - can we count them as also being on our side? :smalltongue:
Similarly, 'zèbre' and 'cebra' are much more 'zeh-brah' than 'zee-brah'!

[AtlanteanTroll]

If we're gonna bring in population sizes, 'zed' is also much closer to how the letter is pronounced in French, German and Spanish (and possibly many more languages, but I wouldn't know!) - can we count them as also being on our side? :smalltongue:
Similarly, 'zèbre' and 'cebra' are much more 'zeh-brah' than 'zee-brah'!
No! We're sticking to English. :smalltongue:

[Goosefeather]

Hmm, Wikipedia suggests a third option - 'izzard'.

[Heliomance]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/EddieIzzard17Oct2003.jpg/220px-EddieIzzard17Oct2003.jpg
What, this guy?

[Gez]

Fun fact! The letter Z comes from the Greek letter Ζ (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Zeta), which is zeta. The pronunciation zed is therefore closer from the source, and thus more accurate. The pronunciation zee is just as attempt to make it follow the mold of cee, dee, tee, and so on. But even then, American English failed to change the pronunciation of S to see, K to kee, L to lee, m to mee, n to ee, Q to quee and R to ree.

(I'll grant you that it'd be hard to distinguish between cee and see, or between kee and quee.)


Also, there is a clear difference between cee and zee (or zed and, I guess, ced if you prefer): the z-sound is a voiced version of the s-sound. Proper pronunciation of [z] makes your vocal cords vibrate (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Voice_(phonetics)).

[Asta Kask]

Swedish pronunciation is Zeta. As in Catherine Zeta-Jones.

[llamamushroom]

Also, there is a clear difference between cee and zee (or zed and, I guess, ced if you prefer): the z-sound is a voiced version of the s-sound. Proper pronunciation of [z] makes your vocal cords vibrate (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Voice_(phonetics)).

While a very valid point, it doesn't help if you actually can't hear the difference. Your ear is trained in how to hear and differentiate as you grow up and learn languages, so if you haven't ever needed to hear the difference (between 'z' and 's', or 'sh' and 'ch'), it is very difficult. To put it in the context that I learned about all this, I can't hear the difference between the 40-something click consonants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click_consonant) in some East African languages. I even have trouble with Swedish "ä" and "a", even though, to a Swede (or Norwegian or Dane or...) they are completely different.

Edit: Oh, and so I can say something on-topic, I thought it was Dragon Ball "Zed", too. It's just one of those things, I guess. Oh, and English is the official language of India because of all their many, many languages - imagine a parliament where every single person needs a translator...

Fun fact: my pastor and his wife are from different (neighbouring) provinces of India, so they communicate with each other solely in English.

[Heliomance]

If English is the official language of India (which I didn't actually know), it surprises me that the Indian accent can be so think and incomprehensible.

I suppose given how difficult to understand some home-grown British accents can be (Scotland (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKwOJbIELH0) and northern England (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM45TACI4H4), I'm looking at you) I shouldn't be surprised, but I am.

[llamamushroom]

If English is the official language of India (which I didn't actually know), it surprises me that the Indian accent can be so think and incomprehensible.

I suppose given how difficult to understand some home-grown British accents can be (Scotland and northern England, I'm looking at you) I shouldn't be surprised, but I am.

I guess it's not incomprehensible to them, as it's what they're used to - I assume it's the same reason the Irish are able to keep a straight face while talking to one another.

[Heliomance]

Nothing wrong with the Irish accent, it's really pretty, especially in a woman's voice.

[Blue Ghost]

I've always pronounced z as "zee", and never heard anyone pronounce it otherwise. Until my current math professor, who pronounces it as "zed." That confuses me to no end.

[Orzel]

I pronounce Z as "andzee".

That's how the song went.

"Zee?" "Zed?"

You guys sound like the people who say elemono isn't a letter or a word too.

[Trazoi]

I pronounce Z as "andzee".

That's how the song went.

"Zee?" "Zed?"

You guys sound like the people who say elemono isn't a letter or a word too.
We've got a different alphabet song over here, to a different faster tune than "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star". And it doesn't end with "andzed" :smallsmile:

(Can't find it quickly on YouTube. It's faster than the American Twinkle one with a tune somewhat like Polly Wolly Doodle but not quite and goes something like:
A B C /
D E F G /
H I J K L M (stop)
N O P Q /
R S T U /
V W X Y Z (stop)
)

[Orzel]

We've got a different alphabet song over here, to a different faster tune than "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star". And it doesn't end with "andzed" :smallsmile:

(Can't find it quickly on YouTube. It's faster than the American Twinkle one with a tune somewhat like Polly Wolly Doodle but not quite and goes something like:
A B C /
D E F G /
H I J K L M (stop)
N O P Q /
R S T U /
V W X Y Z (stop)
)


Does your song encourage cooperative singing at the end?

[Trazoi]

Does your song encourage cooperative singing at the end?
Nope. Nothin' but alphabet.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Nope. Nothin' but alphabet.

You're lucky. Very lucky. :smalltongue:

[Asta Kask]

If English is the official language of India (which I didn't actually know), it surprises me that the Indian accent can be so think and incomprehensible.

Still more comprehensible than Ozzy Osbourne.

It's the official language, but it's not very many people's native language. The two are not necessarily the same.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Oh, and so I can say something on-topic, I thought it was Dragon Ball "Zed", too. It's just one of those things, I guess.

Wait. What? How? It's always "Zee" in the games ... And I'm pretty sure the English games are all the same.

[Nameless]

Isn't the pronounciation of the letter seperate from the way it sounds in words?

Yes.
Doubleyou = W =
Why = Y
Ex = x

I actually can't tell if they were being serious or not. :smallconfused:

[Elder Tsofu]

Swedish pronunciation is Zeta. As in Catherine Zeta-Jones.

Isn't it more along Zäta? Zeta sounds so 08. :smalltongue:

[Sir Conkey]

*says something about and majority rule and the fact that the US hasnearly double the population of Canada, the UK, and Australia combined.*

In general using the "We have more people, therefore we are right" angle is an unfathomably powerful tool in the ways of losing arguments/debates/public respect.

In any case, the USofA has messed up the language enough that we can pretty much say both are correct. It all depends on your personal geography.

[Castaras]

It's pronounced zed if you're in UK. That's all I know.

Plus, Zed sounds more like an ending letter than Zeeeeeeeeeeeee. And sounds better.

[KenderWizard]

I guess it's not incomprehensible to them, as it's what they're used to - I assume it's the same reason the Irish are able to keep a straight face while talking to one another.

I'd be willing to hazard that we're more likely to laugh at your accent than an Irish one. Except maybe Cork accents ... or Kerry ... or Donegal ... Inner city Dublin ... South Dublin ... We're just very prone to mockery!


Nothing wrong with the Irish accent, it's really pretty, especially in a woman's voice.

:smallsmile:


We've got a different alphabet song over here, to a different faster tune than "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star". And it doesn't end with "andzed" :smallsmile:

(Can't find it quickly on YouTube. It's faster than the American Twinkle one with a tune somewhat like Polly Wolly Doodle but not quite and goes something like:
A B C /
D E F G /
H I J K L M (stop)
N O P Q /
R S T U /
V W X Y Z (stop)
)

That's really cool! I like that one!

[AtlanteanTroll]

In general using the "We have more people, therefore we are right" angle is an unfathomably powerful tool in the ways of losing arguments/debates/public respect.
Oh, I know. It was mostly a joke. But I do think majority rule/popularity sort of works in this case. I mean, that's how new words come about is it not?

[Castaras]

Oh, I know. It was mostly a joke. But I do think majority rule/popularity sort of works in this case. I mean, that's how new words come about is it not?

Then why are we all speaking in a language that was originally from a small little island just off the coast of France, instead of a language from a larger country? :smalltongue:
Cue all the languagey people correcting me on where the origins of English are from before it was English, etc etc.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Then why are we all speaking in a language that was originally from a small little island just off the coast of France, instead of a language from a larger country? :smalltongue:


Not what I meant. I meant things change according to who is doing something the most.

Like because most French speakers did X, Y happened, and because most German speakers did Z, A happened. (VARIABLE ALPHABET LOOP)

[factotum]

Then why are we all speaking in a language that was originally from a small little island just off the coast of France, instead of a language from a larger country? :smalltongue:


Because at one point the British controlled more territory than anyone else on the planet, and thus more people. Interestingly enough, do you know what the common trade language was before the British Empire got off the ground? It was French (hence the phrase "lingua franca" to describe this sort of thing), pretty much for the same reason!

[enderlord99]

I agree with Atlantean Troll and Gwyn Char G'wyll. Everyone who insists on using "zed" is really saying "Americans are stupid morons who can't use real English." Curly Kit-girl also says that ALL THE TIME, but I didn't know so many other people here were elitist jerks who consider themselves above those "morons" (in their view) here in America. :smallannoyed::smallmad::smallfurious::furious:

EDIT: What I'm saying is, don't you insist people talk only in Latin -or caveman grunts- because it's the "Original," so don't insist people use British English.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I agree with Atlantean Troll and Gwyn Char G'wyll. Everyone who insists on using "zed" is really saying "Americans are stupid morons who can't use real English." Curly Kit-girl also says that ALL THE TIME, but I didn't know so many other people here were elitist jerks who consider themselves above those "morons" (in their view) here in America. :smallannoyed::smallmad::smallfurious::furious:

Ooooor, you're also taking it way to seriously. For one, calling people "elitist jerks" is a big no-no.
I mean, I make fun of America's "backwards" ways a huge amount. Does that make me an "elitist jerk"? I bloody well hope not! I admit, I am surprised by the amount of people who've only ever heard it as "zee".

[enderlord99]

Ooooor, you're also taking it way to seriously. For one, calling people "elitist jerks" is a big no-no.
I mean, I make fun of America's "backwards" ways a huge amount. Does that make me an "elitist jerk"? I bloody well hope not! I admit, I am surprised by the amount of people who've only ever heard it as "zee".

I've heard it both ways, and I'm fine with both ways. I'm just not fine with people not being fine with both ways.:smallamused:

[Dvil]

I agree with Atlantean Troll and Gwyn Char G'wyll. Everyone who insists on using "zed" is really saying "Americans are stupid morons who can't use real English." Curly Kit-girl also says that ALL THE TIME, but I didn't know so many other people here were elitist jerks who consider themselves above those "morons" (in their view) here in America. :smallannoyed::smallmad::smallfurious::furious:

EDIT: What I'm saying is, don't you insist people talk only in Latin -or caveman grunts- because it's the "Original," so don't insist people use British English.

Wait, what? We pronounce it differently, therefore we're all jerks who deserve to be rudely shouted at on the internet?

No. We just have a different dialect. That's not a character flaw.

[KenderWizard]

Wait, what? We pronounce it differently, therefore we're all jerks who deserve to be rudely shouted at on the internet?

No. We just have a different dialect. That's not a character flaw.

This. I don't think anyone's actually said the American pronunciation is "wrong" or that people who use it are "stupid". Just because America's bigger and England is no longer the biggest power in the world, we varied English-speaking nations should all homogenise to the American way? Homogenize, I suppose I'm supposed to say.

That thing about language evolving to suit the majority is true, but, despite our connected world, most people that most people talk to are their neighbours. I say "zed", not because I totted up the number of English speakers and worked out that more people said "zed" than "zee" across the world, but because my parents said "zed", my teachers said "zed", my schoolfriends said "zed". The majority rule works, but on a local scale, not a global scale. Otherwise we wouldn't have dialects or local slang, and I'll tell ya this an no bleedin mistake lad, that'd be a quare loss.

[enderlord99]

Wait, what? We pronounce it differently, therefore we're all jerks who deserve to be rudely shouted at on the internet?

No. We just have a different dialect. That's not a character flaw.


This. I don't think anyone's actually said the American pronunciation is "wrong" or that people who use it are "stupid". Just because America's bigger and England is no longer the biggest power in the world, we varied English-speaking nations should all homogenise to the American way? Homogenize, I suppose I'm supposed to say.

That thing about language evolving to suit the majority is true, but, despite our connected world, most people that most people talk to are their neighbours. I say "zed", not because I totted up the number of English speakers and worked out that more people said "zed" than "zee" across the world, but because my parents said "zed", my teachers said "zed", my schoolfriends said "zed". The majority rule works, but on a local scale, not a global scale. Otherwise we wouldn't have dialects or local slang, and I'll tell ya this an no bleedin mistake lad, that'd be a quare loss.

Most of that was actually my point. As for the bolded part, I thought people were saying what you say they're not. Oops...:smallredface:

[Dvil]

Otherwise we wouldn't have dialects or local slang, and I'll tell ya this an no bleedin mistake lad, that'd be a quare loss.

Aye, ye may be right there marra. 'appen ye may.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Aye, ye may be right there marra. 'appen ye may.

I dunno what yer talkin' aboot. All yuh crazy Brids and yer accens, eh?

[enderlord99]

Aye, ye may be right there marra. 'appen ye may.


I dunno what yer talkin' aboot. All yuh crazy Brids and yer accens, eh?

Are you dwarves?:smalltongue: Because either way you're funny/awesome.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Otherwise we wouldn't have dialects or local slang, and I'll tell ya this an no bleedin mistake lad, that'd be a quare loss.

Absolutely not. If everyone spoke the same language from birth, (I don't care what language either, Hell, it can be Martian) the World would be a much better place.

[Heliomance]

I think you're in a minority there, AT. The loss of culture that comes with dialects dying out is a real shame.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Well, I'm doin' the inner-cidy Toronna, Canada accen', which is mos'ly droppin' all the 't's, on top o' the whole 'eh' thing. The 'aboot' is totally silly, though, to me 'aboot' is a Scaw'ish thing, like Dvil is doin', no' a Canadian thing. I've never heard anyone say "aboot", only "abou' ", as oppose'd'the American "Abaout".

[Dvil]

Are you dwarves?:smalltongue: Because either way you're funny/awesome.

Absolutely not! I am from a culture that:
- Has an incredibly strong mining heritage
- Is known for producing 'sturdy' or 'tough' people
- Has a local dialect involving words like 'aye', spoken in gruff no-nonsense tones

So you see, nothing Dwarfish at all! :smallbiggrin:


@Gwyn: I'm actually from slightly south of Scotland, so my native dialect is a sort of Yorkshire/Geordie mutant hybrid offspring. I think 'aboot' is fairly Scottish though, aye.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Then agen, if I wuz REALLY doin' my accen', I wudd also drop mos' o'the 'r's ad the end or the middla the wuhds, cuz I have a speech impedimen' that, fer yeahrs, I cuddn' pronounce any 'r's ad all, and only recen'ly 'ave I regained use a them.

[Goosefeather]

Absolutely not. If everyone spoke the same language from birth, (I don't care what language either, Hell, it can be Martian) the World would be a much better place.

A much duller and more sterile place, I think. Cultural heterogeneity is a wonderful thing, as is the human artistic endeavour, and destroying the former would brutally cripple the latter. You'd lose all the poetry, the literature, the worldviews and cultural practices associated with every single one of the thousands of languages that doesn't happen to be the selected one.
Perhaps it might potentially help prevent wars, but people will start wars for many reasons, and difference of language is a catalyst rather than a cause.

Speaking as someone studying languages at university, I find the concept of a monolingual world somewhat horrifying, to be honest!

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Even the idea that fewer language issues means fewer wars is flawed: America has fought 3 wars against English-speakers!

[AtlanteanTroll]

Even the idea that fewer language issues means fewer wars is flawed: America has fought 3 wars against English-speakers!

Quiet you! *nukes* :smalltongue:

[factotum]

Everyone who insists on using "zed" is really saying "Americans are stupid morons who can't use real English."

Just FYI, you've phrased that rather badly. As written, you're literally saying that anyone who pronounces it "zed" is saying Americans are morons, whereas what you PROBABLY wanted to say was:

Everyone who insists that "zed" is the only proper way to pronounce it is really saying...

Oh, and another FYI: when I implied that in my comment earlier, it was a joke, hence the smiley face!

[Coidzor]

In general using the "We have more people, therefore we are right" angle is an unfathomably powerful tool in the ways of losing arguments/debates/public respect.

Except for the bit where that's how language works when you're not being autocratic from on high with an academy that rigidly monitors the language for its purity and keeps it so that only doubleplusgoodspeak is used. For example, the kind of research the people who are actually serious about putting together dictionaries, especially with neologisms that stick.

[SiuiS]

bleh. what about zoos? Zed-oo? Or Zedero? Zedounds?

Or Zedelgadis, even? :smallwink:

I am a celebrate differences kind o' bloke meself. I find the extremes of American culture I've seen, either "isolate in ghettos and hate each other" or "be part of the melting pot, darnit!" both to be wasteful and sad.

[Morph Bark]

Wait. What? How? It's always "Zee" in the games ... And I'm pretty sure the English games are all the same.

Not in Japan! There it is pronounced "Zetto".

In Dutch, it is pronounced "Zet".

[Xuc Xac]

Interestingly enough, do you know what the common trade language was before the British Empire got off the ground? It was French (hence the phrase "lingua franca" to describe this sort of thing), pretty much for the same reason!

And before that, it was Latin: hence the phrase "lingua franca" instead of "langue francaise".

[Serpentine]

Strooth mayte, in Straya it's pronownsed zed.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

And before that, it was Latin: hence the phrase "lingua franca" instead of "langue francaise".

And Greek before that. And probably Persian before /that/

[Aedilred]

To be strict, the lingua franca was not French but a pidgin language of Romance origin used to communicate in Mediterranean ports during the Middle Ages, named after the "Franks", the generic name the Arabs gave to the multinational people of the First Crusade and their descendants. It probably developed out of dog Latin used to communicate in the western Mediterranean. In the east, Greek never really went away and even during the height of Roman influence Latin was a second language for most of the people there. Prior to Greek the closest thing to a common trading language was probably Phoenician or some dialect thereof.

Arabic also had a long reach, especially among the elites. There's a Mercian (English) coin found with Arabic inscriptions, and the Islamic empire and its successors - for which Arabic would have been the common tongue - reached a long way east.

French only really became the international language of diplomacy in the 17th-18th century.

[Archonic Energy]

Dragon Ball Zed.



Zed Zed Top


Zed for Zorro.

Rodney McKay (SG:A): Z(ed)PM
Trillian (Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy) Zed Zed 9 plural Zed Alpha

do you know how hard it was to find references that use Zed not Zee in popular media? Rodney is Canadian & Trillian is From London.


*says something about and majority rule and the fact that the US hasnearly double the population of Canada, the UK, and Australia combined.*

*says something about the language being called English, not American*

:smalltongue:

though quite honesly I couldn't care less how anyone pronounces the letter Z.

[tcrudisi]

Even the idea that fewer language issues means fewer wars is flawed: America has fought 3 wars against English-speakers!

Care to elaborate? I can only think of two wars that the United States has fought against English-speakers (the War of 1812 and the Civil War).

[tyckspoon]

Care to elaborate? I can only think of two wars that the United States has fought against English-speakers (the War of 1812 and the Civil War).

American Revolution, although if you're going to be really nitpicky about it the United States didn't exist as a political entity under that name for that war.

[tcrudisi]

American Revolution, although if you're going to be really nitpicky about it the United States didn't exist as a political entity under that name for that war.

That's actually the trap I was trying to lay. Since the US didn't exist as a state at that time, it's not possible for the US to have fought a war against English-speakers.

Of course, I can be easily rebutted. Some argue the US became a nation when we signed the Declaration of Independence. /shrug. I personally don't follow that logic, but hey, the argument can be made.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

That's actually the trap I was trying to lay. Since the US didn't exist as a state at that time, it's not possible for the US to have fought a war against English-speakers.

Of course, I can be easily rebutted. Some argue the US became a nation when we signed the Declaration of Independence. /shrug. I personally don't follow that logic, but hey, the argument can be made.

I would argue that they perceived themselves as a state at that point.

Either way, it was a conflict against fellow English-speakers.

[LordZarth]

Of course, I can be easily rebutted. Some argue the US became a nation when we signed the Declaration of Independence. /shrug. I personally don't follow that logic, but hey, the argument can be made.

Wait, the US? We're calling that a nation now? What happened to 'Our Rebellious American Possessions'?

[Winter_Wolf]

Wait, the US? We're calling that a nation now? What happened to 'Our Rebellious American Possessions'?

HA! That's a good one. :smallbiggrin: (US Born here.)

As to the "if we all spoke the exact same language there'd be less fighting", it's been my personal experience that the worst fights happen when you DO speak exactly the same language and know exactly what is being said and the spirit in which it's meant.

As to the proper pronunciation of those funny little squiggles people use, all I can say is, doesn't really matter, at least there's only 26 in the US/UK alphabet. I do think it would benefit from 'thorn (Þ,þ) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_%28letter%29)' though. But only if we used the modern Icelandic shape so we could avoid all that "ye" nonsense everyone every time someone tries to write "the". :smalltongue:

[Wookieetank]

Who needs the letter Z when you speak Shyriiwook? http://wookieepedia.org/w/Main_Page
:smallwink:

[Asta Kask]

As to the "if we all spoke the exact same language there'd be less fighting", it's been my personal experience that the worst fights happen when you DO speak exactly the same language and know exactly what is being said and the spirit in which it's meant.

Swedes and Danes speak basically the same language and we have been at war twelve times since 1521. And wars were not uncommon before then either...

[dehro]

Swedes and Danes speak basically the same language and we have been at war twelve times since 1521. And wars were not uncommon before then either...

I know this is going to sound very disrespectful, and I'm ignorant as to how far removed from the truth it is, but I can't help picturing in my mind that most of these wars must have been rather violent and gruesome but must also have ended with a royal piss-up all together in a tavern somewhere..

[factotum]

but must also have ended with a royal piss-up all together in a tavern somewhere..

I'm a bit baffled why you'd think this. Most countries in the world have had at least one civil war, and I don't think those usually end up with the combatants having a right royal booze-up in the nearest bar; and we're talking about people from the same country there, not people from adjacent countries who happen to speak similar languages!

[Asta Kask]

Denmark-Norway was the arch-enemy of Sweden for a long, long time. In 1645 and 1658 we gained control over what we wanted and let them have all the bad parts. :smallbiggrin:

[dehro]

I'm a bit baffled why you'd think this. Most countries in the world have had at least one civil war, and I don't think those usually end up with the combatants having a right royal booze-up in the nearest bar; and we're talking about people from the same country there, not people from adjacent countries who happen to speak similar languages!

I've been reading Asterix comics today... my notions about warfare and traditional rivalries are bound to be a bit screwed up.

[Morph Bark]

And Greek before that. And probably Persian before /that/

Phoenician, mayhaps?

Alf, bet, gaml, delt...

[enderlord99]

Phoenician, mayhaps?

Alf, bet, gaml, delt...

Maybe we should use whatever language was used by early Cro-Magnons!

...

Ugh! Oogabooga! Gafflwarflshnarfle! Pppbbbbbttttttt...!

...

:smalltongue::smallcool:

[AtlanteanTroll]

Personally, I think everyone should speak Sanskrit.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Personally, I think everyone should speak Sanskrit.

Nah, Proto-Indo-European all the way!

Nei, pete-eg-dnghua gem-keleu

...

Ok, so I fail at translating. Kill me.

"No, father-to-speak-tongue full-far-away" is the literal translation of what I wrote...