Warlock / Binder Epic Gestalt

[Wavelab]

So I'm playing an epic gestalt game and I have a character idea.

The campaign is mid-high OP. Level 30 gestalt standard WBL. Everybody receives leadership + epic leadership as bonus feats since we rule half the globe.

My character idea is a warlock / binder who is obsessed with the far realms who has spent a lot of time there. I'm thinking Karsite for race and I also need to find a way to become an outsider or aberration.

I need any advice you can give me, since these guys have saves ranging in the +60. Thanks.

[hex0]

I'm assuming you are going to take Hellfire Warlock, right?

You might want to get in some more BAB before level 21, as you get no more in epic. Scout (with or without going into Ranger), makes a good gestalt for Warlocks as Skimirish is a free way to boost your Eldritch Blast assuming you move a bit.

Edit: If you want some better saves, mix in Favored Soul->Sacred Exorcist->Prestige Paladin->Eldritch Disciple.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Here ya go. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20061027a) Some of those are a bit weak, but some are really cool.

[Wavelab]

Hellfire warlock is a definite. Might ask my DM to have it reflavored as Far Realm themed instead of Hellish.

BAB advances at +1/2 levels at epic so at level 30 I'll have +20.

Scout I don't know? I'll look into it.

And yes I was going to take epic warlock feats in any case, I might even sacrifice an epic destiny for it if my bonus feats can't cover it.

Any good epic destinies you know of for this character?

And also how would Pseudonatural(both) fit with my build?

[faceroll]

The Epic Pseudonatural template would be pretty decent if you could combine shadowpounce, your 7 natural tentacle attacks, and the fistful of hellfire damage.

[Psyren]

Get 5 levels of Knight of the Sacred Seal onto your Binder side before 20. This will get you to 16 BAB, netting you that 4th attack, without sacrificing soul binding progression; you also get very cool abilities with your patron vestige. You can then grab the last 5 levels of Binder post-epic to get the high-level goodies like always-on supernatural Mind Blank.

Are dual-progression PrCs allowed? If so, you could use a dip to enter Anima Mage and progress both your binding and invocations on one side while you pick a high-BAB or skilled class on the other.



BAB advances at +1/2 levels at epic so at level 30 I'll have +20.


Is this a houserule? Because by RAW, BAB doesn't advance at all in epic. (AB does, but that doesn't give you more attacks.)

[Wavelab]

My bad. AB advances.

I'll look into knight of the sacred seal. Does it have any fluff I should be aware of(I'm away from my books until tomorrow.

The only problem with pseudonatural is the tentacles, I'll probably give to get a hat of diguise or something.

[JaronK]

Bind Zceryll as well as some of the normal epic vestiges (they're AMAZING!). Rock out with summoned guys. Remember, they can cast Heal to cure your ability damage, so feel free to rock out the Hellfire Warlock levels. Consider taking a level 3 bloodline if you're doing Hellfire Warlock of course.

And remember you can bind Astaroth for any item creation feat you want, and combine this with Warlock abilities to make any item you want.

JaronK

[Psyren]

My bad. AB advances.

Yep; this is why it's crucial to get 16 before epic if possible if you plan on spending any time in melee.

I'll look into knight of the sacred seal. Does it have any fluff I should be aware of(I'm away from my books until tomorrow.


The only problem with pseudonatural is the tentacles, I'll probably give to get a hat of diguise or something.

You have epic leadership, why do you care about your looks? :smalltongue: I think there's an invocation for that anyways. But even if there isn't, you're an epic Warlock, you can craft a Hat for yourself no problem (along with any other item in the game) - Astaroth can get you the necessary crafting feats.

(shakes fist at JaronK)

[Wavelab]

I really like summoning weird things. Maybe I should summon Cthulu...

Anyway I'm going to run these by my DM:
Mythos Vestiges (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68757)
Mythos Vestiges (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68834)
Mythos Vestiges (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69093)
Mythos Vestiges (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85280)

I also need some very powerful vestiges since a level 30 binder can't run around with too many low level vestiges.

[JaronK]

You do realize there are official epic vestiges, and they're awesome, right?

JaronK

[Wavelab]

Where can the epic vestiges be found?

And the Mythos Vestiges fit the character with the Far Realm-ness.

[JaronK]

Here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172608

The official article was taken down when WotC focused more on 4th ed, but those are all a straight copy paste job from the article.

JaronK

[Godskook]

You can easily squeeze in something else into this build without majorly detracting from your primary classes. Something like:

Warlock 14/Eldritch Theurge 10//Binder 1/Wizard 3/Anima Mage 10/Binder +10

That's level 24, gives level 21 wizard casting, and loses you exactly 1 binder level. You can optionally choose to lose that level on your warlock side instead. Hellfire Warlock can be fit nicely in the last 6 levels, too. You can afford to give up 4 wizard levels without losing 9ths if you want more prestige class space for something else.

Mid/High-OP option: Utilizing Precocious Apprentice gets you early entry into Anima Mage, saving you that 1 effective level in binder.

High-OP option: Via the Chaos shuffle, you can negate the feat-cost of Precocious Apprentice for any feat you actually want.

This can be done with divine casting, but requires more optimization to make work.

[Wavelab]

No dual progression prcs. Sorry.

The epic vestiges look good(except Zuriel he kinda sucks...)

So between Epic Vestiges and Epic Warlock feats I'll be spending a lot of epic feats.

Also I have to take LA into account. So far it's Pseudonatural Human Warlock 27 Hallfire Warlock 3 / Binder 15 Knight thingy 5 Binder 10. Subtract LA equally on both sides.

What would you rate the LA to be?

Also what non-epic feats should I take?

[faceroll]

I would progress hellfire warlock in a cheesy way, because you're going to want the damage.

What pseudonatural template are you looking at? If you have to lose levels from both sides, LA is not worth it in gestalt. You're giving up too much for rather trivial stuff.

[Wavelab]

Yeah I think Pseudonatural(Epic) will be too much LA for me.

How much LA does the one in CA have? And are there any other outsider/aberration templates that I can take?

[faceroll]

The CA has an LA of 1, and it doesn't do anything for you, mechanically. SR and some +to hit on one attack roll/day.

[Psyren]

How much LA does the one in CA have?

+2, for level 12+ (which you are.)

[faceroll]

Just looked- pseudonatural doesn't actually have a listed LA. Just looking at its stats, it's a weak +1 LA. For epic gestalt, I'd just give it you for free, if I were DM.

[The Shadowmind]

The Zceryll vestige grants them Pseudonatural Template(CA/LoM) anyway, and picking her as your patron for the King of the Seal prc is a common choice, since her Summon Alien(Summon Monster I-IX) ability along with 100ft mindsight are good abilities.

I'd said take a minimum for 12 levels of warlock for Imbue item.
For the Epic Warlock Feats, Dark Transient for the teleporting since I don't think their is a vestige the duplicates the planeshift/greater teleport effect.
And possibly Shadowmaster, since it gives at-will shades, and immunity to all [Shadow] spells.

[JaronK]

Just looked- pseudonatural doesn't actually have a listed LA. Just looking at its stats, it's a weak +1 LA. For epic gestalt, I'd just give it you for free, if I were DM.

There are two such templates. One is a big deal, the other isn't and comes free when you bind Zceryll anyway.

JaronK

[MeeposFire]

Are you going to eldritch glaive, blast, or use claws. BAB is important for glaive and claws that have beast strike. If you just have claws or just blasting then you don't need to care about BAB just AB.

EDIT: I just noticed that eldritch sculpter is a full attack action which means it works with various things that work with full attack actions (you just need to convince the DM that your blast is a ranged weapon so you can use rapid shot or haste which gives a reason to finally use eldritch strike or something). :smalltongue:

[JaronK]

No dual progression prcs. Sorry.

The epic vestiges look good(except Zuriel he kinda sucks...)

Combine his "I take damage for you" ability with the other vestige's "I can't die from hitpoints and I can spam Heal" abilities and you become an actually legit healer. Plus dropping forcecages and forcewalls around everywhere, quickened... that's pretty awesome. Just need Zceryll.

Of course, the giant evil alien squid thing fits your theme really well, so there's that too.

JaronK

[The Shadowmind]

I'm going to go against the grain of the several previous suggestions and say just Warlock 28/Chameleon 2//Binder 30. The reason is that you wouldn't get the epic bonus feats will after you complete 20 level is the Warlock class and/or the Binder class. And unlike the epic bonus feats that many other classes give, both the epic Warlock and the epic Binder actually have fairly good epic feats. That is an understatement for the Binder.

Since Karsites are a human subtype they can get into Chameleon, which you can use to grab whichever feat you need for the day.

[Wavelab]

I still think I should take Hellfire Warlock. +6d6 to my eldritch blast isn't bad.

So Karsite Warlock 9 Hellfire Warlock 3 Warlock 17 LA 1 / Binder 15 Knight of the Sacred Seal 5 Binder 9 LA 1

I don't know about chameleon so much? What feats would I want to select? I'm taking all the epic binder and warlock feats I want.

Edit:

Also would it be worth it to run this (http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/178137-invocations-far-realm-flavored-warlock.html) by my DM?

[Wavelab]

Quoth the Raven:

Bump

[Medic!]

You definately want the hellfire warlock levels, as they advance pretty much everything useful from warlock. I'd also look into the Enlightened Spirit (Complete Mage) for your other side to give you a few more invocation options and increased EB damage.

I feel dirty puting this in two seperate threads in one day but I was giddy as a school girl when I first read the PrC.

[Wavelab]

The enlightened spirit will disallow me invocations and I can't take it since:

Knight of the Sacred Seal - Non-Chaotic
Warlock - Evil or Chaotic

Which means I need to be evil.

Enlightened Spirit requires you to be good. And it doesn't really fit with the fluff of my character.

Well anyway here's my character so far:

Morta (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=339127)
Male Neutral Evil Karsite Binder 15 Knight of the Sacred Seal 5 Binder 8 LA 2 / Warlock 27 Hellfire Warlock 2, Level 30, Init +11, HP 201/201, DR 15/Magic 7/Cold Iron, Speed 30 ft.
AC 32, Touch 17, Flat-footed 25, Fort +20, Ref +18, Will +17, Base Attack Bonus 21, Action Points 20
Not subject to fire immunity Eldritch Glaive +28/+23/+18/+13 (22d6, x2)
+1 damage if 30 ft. or closer Eldritch Blast +29 (16d6, x2)
+1 if closer than 30 ft., not subject to fire immunity Hellfire Damage +29 (22d6, x2)
+10 Mithral Breastplate (+15 Armor, +7 Dex)
Abilities Str 10, Dex 24, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 49
Condition None

And I just noticed a problem.

When using Amun-her Khepeshef I gain this ability:

Firstborn Guardian: You are immune to fatigue, exhaustion, ability damage and drain, energy drain, death spells, magical death effects, and negative energy effects (such as from inflict spells or chill touch). You are also immune to special attacks and abilities of undead that cause fear, disease, paralysis, or poison. All weapons you wield (as well as natural attacks) are considered to have the ghost touch weapon quality. You gain a +4 sacred bonus to AC against the attacks of undead. This is constant and does not require an action to activate. As a swift action, you can extend the same protections to one ally per 5 effective binder levels you possess. This protection lasts for 1 round/level. When it runs out, you must wait 5 rounds before activating it again.

Emphasis mine. That means I can't use Hellfire Blast.

[Psyren]

So don't bind him, or don't hellfire while he's bound. Plenty of other ways you can use your standard action even if HFB is switched off.l

[Wavelab]

Well he is so awesome... But so is hellfire... Damn...

Well sacrifices have to be made I guess.